I Have More Trust Issues Than This Feral..

[Buffster7]

Since Walli is Feral, I cannot have another fight, I feel like I cannot fail, that is why we are going extremely slow, it may take us another year while Joey grows up a bit more, but I will do it for Walli.

I really admire your dedication and stick-to-it-iveness. It is inconvenient and time-consuming and nerve-wrecking, and I've only been at it for a month. I can't imagine what you've gone through with one of them being feral! We'll all be celebrating the day that they decide they can coexist peacefully!

I can tell by your videos, things really are going very will, Finn is not aggressive, I'm wondering if the soft paws Charlie gives Finn might be a big help too!

I hope...I'm feeling discouraged today. It's a rollercoaster, isn't it?

 

[Buffster7]

I had planned for a visit today, but I don't think Charlie is going to tolerate it. I can't say why, just a 'feeling' I have. When I put Finn in his cage this morning and sat with them in the office, Charlie showed no interest in interacting with Finn but instead went into Finn's room and sprayed all in his litterbox and up the side of the wall! This time Finn reacted when I got him back to his room - even though I had cleaned it up, I felt his body stiffen and his tail start whipping.

Come to think of it, the attitude may have started last night. I went in to play with Finn and had the door open with gate up for part of it, but I wanted to give Finn some loves and treats and didn't want Charlie to see, so I closed the door. When I came out of Finn's room, I gave Charlie his treat, but he wanted nothing to do with me. Wouldn't interact, and wouldn't sleep next to me - slept far away from me on the bed. Huh.

Charlie is also super jumpy at every noise and immediately goes puff-tailed. It's not that he's doing anything in particular, but I just get a sense of attitude from him.So I'm not risking it. I may just keep Finn in his room today and give them a break from each other entirely.

 

[shadowsrescue]

Trust your gut and take a break for today. Better safe than sorry! Tomorrow is a brand new day!

 

[Talien]

I had planned for a visit today, but I don't think Charlie is going to tolerate it. I can't say why, just a 'feeling' I have. When I put Finn in his cage this morning and sat with them in the office, Charlie showed no interest in interacting with Finn but instead went into Finn's room and sprayed all in his litterbox and up the side of the wall! This time Finn reacted when I got him back to his room - even though I had cleaned it up, I felt his body stiffen and his tail start whipping.

Come to think of it, the attitude may have started last night. I went in to play with Finn and had the door open with gate up for part of it, but I wanted to give Finn some loves and treats and didn't want Charlie to see, so I closed the door. When I came out of Finn's room, I gave Charlie his treat, but he wanted nothing to do with me. Wouldn't interact, and wouldn't sleep next to me - slept far away from me on the bed. Huh.

Charlie is also super jumpy at every noise and immediately goes puff-tailed. It's not that he's doing anything in particular, but I just get a sense of attitude from him.So I'm not risking it. I may just keep Finn in his room today and give them a break from each other entirely.

If he continues like that for more than a day or so you may want to take him to your vet just in case, sometimes a Cat not wanting to do anything can be a sign of illness.

 

[Jcatbird]

It is a roller coaster. Just try to temeber that the ride will end so hang on a try to enjoy the fun parts. Instincts are very good things. Always trust them. This is just a little break time and likely a needed respite for all. Maybe the Finn spaces need to stay private until the intros are done. Try that and see if it helps during your next visit. The scent swapping has already been done.
Charlie! Really?!?! Reclaiming the room huh?
Don’t get discouraged. This is all part of the process. Stepping back a minute doen’t hurt a thing and even gives you a beak.

 

[walli]

Yes give yourself a break too! It is a rollercoaster, give yourself a pat on the back from me, you have been such a trooper, nothing wrong with a break.
Give Charlie reassuring love and treats!!

 

[Buffster7]

Just let Finn out for a bit while I fixed their dinner. My hands were shaking from nerves when I was dishing up their food, afraid of a fight, so I stayed away and let them do their thing. I think it went okay - Finn was out for between 5-8 minutes. Charlie got stalkerish as usual, and there was mutual chasing each other around. It wasn't playing - pretty sure they were trying to intimidate each other. I heard hissing from Charlie. Charlie's ears were back toward the end so I put Finn back in his room. I feel terrible when I do that, like I'm punishing him - he's wailing mournfully. Charlie chased Finn once and another time I'm pretty sure Finn chased Charlie, because Charlie was up against a wall and looking unhappy - will post a vid.

How long do I allow them to be out? Is putting Finn back into his room going to make it seem like he's done something wrong and has been disciplined? He does appear to be intimidated by me when he's out, a little skittish and runs away from me, so I wonder if he feels like I'm The Punisher.

It's going to be a very busy week and I'm hardly going to be home. It would be nice to let him out a little more when I am home, but I'm not sure if I should end the session the minute one of them corners the other, or when I hear hissing, or if I should let them work it out. Please advise!

 

[Buffster7]

Here's the only vid I got, and it was the last time when Finn chased Charlie (Charlie chased Finn the first time). I feel badly now for scolding Finn, but I was a little worried things would escalate. However, I don't want to scold Finn every time he sticks up for himself, either. Charlie is the instigator and needs to be put in his place if Finn is going to have any peace around here. Yet I worry it would be a huge setback if things escalated right now. Poor Finn.

 

[Jcatbird]

Hmmmm. Short vid but Finn understood to stop. What do you really think would happen if you left them out longer? I know what you fear but what do your observations of them really feel like in your gut?

 

[Buffster7]

Hmmmm. Short vid but Finn understood to stop. What do you really think would happen if you left them out longer? I know what you fear but what do your observations of them really feel like in your gut?

I honestly don't know. Charlie is my first cat - I haven't been around cats long enough to even stab a guess.
I noticed Charlie's ears going back toward the end of Finn's time out, and when Finn cornered Charlie up against the wall, I wasn't sure how I was going to "end visit on a good note". Charlie definitely gets mean-eye and bully-ish, so I'm surprised Finn wasn't intimidated and cornered him! Sooner or later I have to try to leave them out longer and see what happens, I just wasn't sure if it was time?

Finn has been crying and wailing nonstop since I put him in his room, it's heartbreaking. It took Charlie a while, but even he went and called to Finn through the door. I mean, how do I know when it's time to leave them out for more than 5-10 mins?

 

[walli]

My thought is leave them out longer, maybe it will take a few to calm down? Try to ignore them. when they are out, they are going to pick up on your stress, can you sit down on the floor and have a wand toy in your hand? maybe some treats at the ready?
a distraction?

I don't mean this in a bad way at all but you might be escalating the stress because your nervous. I get it tho!

Prolly should wait for another poster to make sure Im not giving you bad advise!

 

[Jcatbird]

Well, at some point you do take a leap of faith. I mostly worry right now about you. Not every visit will always be positive with every cat. Sending message.

 

[Jcatbird]

Okay. No response from you yet so guessing you are either busy or letting them mingle. I agree with W walli that more time is probably fine. You can’t know without trying. I hope everything is going easily and that it has worked to settle those nervous hands. We have all been through the unsure stage and the nervous hands. You are not alone in any of that.

 

[Buffster7]

Thank you ladies! I was in Finn's room trying to tire him out with play. He was particularly energetic and wound up tonight - and absolutely hilarious! Doing back-flips thought the air and somersaults on the ground and jumping off the bed like a flying squirrel. He is a joy.

I did notice that Charlie did not call to us through the door and act like he wanted to be included like he often does, though. Hmmm. Vet checkup for him soon just to put my mind at ease. I think I will try again the next time I'm feeling brave, hopefully tomorrow, and leave them out longer, then. I will keep a close ear on them when I do- they can't stray too far that I couldn't get to them quickly. Probably better for them if I'm not in the immediate vicinity. Thank you both for your input - I sure need it!

 

[Talien]

I honestly don't know. Charlie is my first cat - I haven't been around cats long enough to even stab a guess.
I noticed Charlie's ears going back toward the end of Finn's time out, and when Finn cornered Charlie up against the wall, I wasn't sure how I was going to "end visit on a good note". Charlie definitely gets mean-eye and bully-ish, so I'm surprised Finn wasn't intimidated and cornered him! Sooner or later I have to try to leave them out longer and see what happens, I just wasn't sure if it was time?

Finn has been crying and wailing nonstop since I put him in his room, it's heartbreaking. It took Charlie a while, but even he went and called to Finn through the door. I mean, how do I know when it's time to leave them out for more than 5-10 mins?

It's really starting to seem like sooner or later they will need to work out for themselves who's top Dog, or top Cat in this case.

 

[Jcatbird]

Finn was doing his flying squirrel imitation!?! I love that comparison! Visual making me laugh! You’re all going to be okay. Your sense of humor is intact and so are both kitties.
You have lots of great vibes coming from lots of people here. Flying Finn will just sail over Charlie if there is a need. Charlie can enjoy watching the gymnastics.

 

[walli]

yes! you guys are going to be just fine!

 

[Buffster7]

I let Finn out again tonight when I got home, thinking I would let the boys sort things out while I kept an ear out from the kitchen. I don't think it went well. They're not playing if one of them is hissing, right?

They were both stalkerish tonight, but Finn definitely spent more time chasing Charlie. If Charlie is obviously hissing and swatting and hiding, do cats usually take a hint? Finn does not, so I can't figure out if he's a bully or if he's just clueless.

I let them sort it out a few times, but this vid looked a bit like it would escalate, so I stepped in and spoke very loudly and put Finn back in his room. By putting him back in his room immediately afterward, am I doing his and Charlie's relationship damage? Causing resentment?

I'm concerned. I can't have my old boy bullied or beat up in his own home. That sound at the end is a yelp from Charlie. A yelp of surprise? Fear? Not sure..

 

[Jcatbird]

Well! Finn! Trying to get established. He was pushing Charlie just a little bit Charlie swatted him good and hissed. Charlie basically told Finn he was crossing the line. Still not a serious problem. They are going to chase and as long as Charlie runs, Finn will pursue. Chasing can be fun and dominating but when Charlie turned to face Finn, he was saying no. This might be the long where you want to go to them and stop it but also pet them both together and reassure both that they are okay. Petting and talking to let them know you see and are the Mom here. No fighting children. Play nice! A toy would be good here. Getting them to convert the chase into the chase of a string or wand toy would really divert them. You won’t always be around to put Finn away so over time they need to prove to you that they are established.
No damage done. They will pick up where they left off. Finn is going to learn that you will put him in his room after an altercation. Chances are, he’s going to try and dodge you. Lol They are smart. He’ll look for a place to hide until you go away.

 

[Buffster7]

Chances are, he’s going to try and dodge you. Lol They are smart. He’ll look for a place to hide until you go away.

He already does that!! Little punk.

A toy would be good here.

I always forget about playing with them - thanks for the reminder! I was actually prepping dinner at the time but I need to keep a toy within reach. Okay, so you didn't see anything concerning - then I will try again another day and go a little longer. Finn was probably out for about 15 minutes tonight before it escalated to this - they had a couple tussles before this. Finn's a gutsy little thing, isn't he? I wonder if he knows that Charlie doesn't have claws, so he feels brazen?