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I Have More Trust Issues Than This Feral..

Feral Mom

TCS Member
Adult Cat
Jul 11, 2019
105
255
Clearwater Florida, USA
Awesome,
(Buffster, stand by for thread derail, haha)
@moxiewild
another tricks trainer! I too, use a clicker, but i have muffled it just a tad with a bit of tape on the metal part, to soften the noise just a bit, (most are wayyyy TOO loud)
and i use Temptations because that is kitty crack:lovecat4: to my particular cat.
Our current cat knows 8 tricks, including "Who's your mommy!?" (touches my nose):lovecat3:
High Five,
How BIG are You? (stands up and touches his paws together over my hand.
BAng! (falls down "dead" when i point an index finger at him, it is his best trick of all, is best taught with 2 humans working together, only takes 3 days, if you keep lessons short, like 5 minutes, end on positive note,
and repeat the lesson multiple times a day. I always train in one specific spot,
and later, branch out to other areas so after cat has mastered the cue, next the cat learns it works Everywhere,
but most ppl do not train that way, but i always do., esp for cats, i think it helps the cat remember, "ah ha, here we are in that one corner again, i bet she wants me to touch her nose again?" kind thing, hahaha)

Clicker training involves zero scolding, zero correcting, only reinforcing the things you DO want, ignoring what you do not want...

It is all positive training method.

All of my cat tricks have very distinct hand signals
or postures from me,
as well as verbal cues.

but i used to have a border collie who knew 124 tricks and cues, :Dincluding get a beer out of fridge, finding 18 named toys, putting his toys in to his toy box, and fairly elaborate steps of some "doggie dancing" to the song "Stand by Me" (i kid you not:lol: hey i was out of ideas for tricks,
and that dog could eat the sofa if i didn't keep him busy, he HAD TO learn stuff to stay sane..;)).
lol.

So, i know a thing or two about animal training, but I have never trained a cat to stay off of anything, except my keyboard, which i am sitting in front of, so that is not truly training since i have to be there to enforce it,:lol: haha,
I just use double sided tape,
which works
awesomely for my cat. I do mean, perfectly well, awesome results with my double sided tape. Even long after i have removed the tape? Cat still will NOT even think about touching that thing that was once taped up.
I thought, the cat will notice the tape is gone,:gingercat: and resume sharpening his nails on our new sofa.....but nope. The cat had totally memorized the back head rest area of our sofa was yucky to him,:sniffle: and he has never ever went there again. (he was shredding it prior to the double sided tape.)

But that is all i know about teaching cats to stay off of stuff, is use double sided tape. (which works like a charm, IF you can tolerate having mucked up looking items for a while, you DO eventually get to remove the tape though):)
@moxiewild
CAn you either post note here,
or PM me,
or post a thread,
on how exactly, step by step, you train a cat to stay off of an item?

THANK YOUuuuuuu
 
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Feral Mom

TCS Member
Adult Cat
Jul 11, 2019
105
255
Clearwater Florida, USA
also, Buffster7 Buffster7 I am so excited about the boys meeting each other! I am stoked.
We have all been waiting for this! haha.:wavey:


WELL DONE AND CONGRATS!!!!!
:clap::clap2::cheerleader::goldstar::sunshine::petcat::petcat:

I am loving your videos,
(so is Moki,:silver: he can watch your cats over
and over
and over....)

so please post as many of those videos as you can!?:D
MORE! MORE!!:clapcat:


sure looks like things are heading in right direction with the boys!! :happycat: :happycat:
 
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Feral Mom

TCS Member
Adult Cat
Jul 11, 2019
105
255
Clearwater Florida, USA
But re: new cat Finn's weeks of ongoing diarrhea,:( I thought ShadowRescue 's idea of probiotics seemed well worth a try since Finn was recently on antibiotics... he very well might need his colon recolonized..? She mentioned she used 3 kinds until she found one that worked, maybe shadowsrescue shadowsrescue can recall which brand of probiotics did help?

Also,
I saw you said you have him on several brands of cat food all at once...
Some cats can not switch up food brands rapidly
that easily. Mine can't!! :headshake:
(I have to slowlyyyy gradually mix up the new food into previous food, like 1/4 to 3/4 x several days, then 1/2 to 1/2 x several days, and so on.....advancing along over about 2 or 3 weeks, or Moki gets the runs, too..)

You may want to consider settling on only one (1) brand for now,
No other brands,

and see if his little tummy can adjust to 1 brand of food
and settle down?
If it is a food allergy, (who knows) well, then, It might make an "elimination" test for him easier, if he is only one brand for a few weeks..


and then, perhaps, later on, if all is well, if you DO want to swap out his brand of cat food? maybe do so slowly, mixing in small 1/4 x a week,
then 1/2 and 1/2 x a week,
and so on, watching how he tolerates the new foods.

And I'd call vet again, as well (squeaky wheel gets the grease..) just to see what does s/he recommend food-wise?
or treatment wise
for weeks of
diarrhea?


It might be a big enough challenge for this little outdoor cat to remember to use litter box at first after he is allowed allllll over your home....:runningcat:
I'd think his chance for success would increase if he didn't have the runs.... but it sounds like, so far so good! YAYYYYYYYy!! Buffster, you have done so very well!! :rock:
 
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  • #565

Buffster7

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Jul 1, 2019
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I find clicker training works really well. It's basically the same as you would do for a dog. Although if the cat has a very lazy disposition, he may not be into it. But if he is alert and seeks stimulation OR is particularly food or affection motivated, then he's a great candidate (food motivated kitties are the easiest to train).
I love this! Where do you get the clicker - is there a brand that is "cat-friendly"? I know nothing about clicker training but I'm going to read up on it since you and FeralMom both recommend it so highly. Finn is smart, needs stimulation, and is both food AND affection motivated. Thank you!

Clicker training involves zero scolding, zero correcting, only reinforcing the things you DO want, ignoring what you do not want...
Thanks to you and Moxiewild, I'm going to look into this. Your tricks sounds awesome - do YOU have any vids? I would love to see them! I'm sure you've seen the video of the cats doing tricks on America's Got Talent or something like that. I've watched that again and again - showed it to my family as proof of feline intelligence and ability to learn.

I just use double sided tape, which worksawesomely for my cat. I do mean, perfectly well, awesome results with my double sided tape.
You've said this before, but for some reason it just clicked with me as far as my computer goes. I'm going to put tape on my laptop before I go into Finn's room. Here's hoping it works - will keep you posted!

You may want to consider settling on only one (1) brand for now,
No other brands, and see if his little tummy can adjust to 1 brand of food
and settle down?
I'll do that, too. I'm in a habit of rotating because Charlie gets bored with food very quickly and I find that if I rotate the food and flavors, I can make it through a whole case of food without him going 'off' of it. I had TONS of food that he refused to eat now from before I was wise to his ways (I've since used it up feeding it to Finn - it's high-quality food). Sometimes the most blatant things can escape us - it just never occurred to me to limit the brands to one food to help Finn's tummy. I am suspecting supplements, too. The Comfort Max, the L-Lysine, and the Jackson Galaxy Safe Space are all items I've added to his food. I eliminated the L-Lysine and saw a slight improvement in on stool yesterday, but most were still runny. Today I eliminated Comfort Max and will see what tomorrow holds. I will limit his food to one brand now.
I need to make an appt to have him microchipped anyway, as Greased Lightning is such an escape artist, so will have some blood work done to see if there's anything else going on.

Thank you all for your fantastic input - I am so thankful for you.
 

Feral Mom

TCS Member
Adult Cat
Jul 11, 2019
105
255
Clearwater Florida, USA
I like your ideas to remove things from his diet,
for now, until this diarrhea is ever gets solved?
That may make it easier to.find culprit... also maybe some probiotic. Just a few doses, I think probiotics self replicate...like weeds.

And maybe call vet .. I would. This is.....3? 4? weeks of diarrhea?
Or even longer... cuz he had green diarrhea when you first met him, right??

I think call the vet...?
Good luck!!

Clickers are sold in all pet stores, or Amazon. Almost all brands are wayyyyy too loud, so add bit of tape, or tape cotton ball over the metal. It does Not have to be loud. Should be soft in volume.
Last thing you want is create annoying noise that hurts cat's ears.

Clickers are used to train every my kind of animal from chickens to killer whales.
(Yes, I am against capturing killer whales)
Clicks are consistent, tricks and cues are learned faster. Easier for animal to realize a click, than sort out that "Yay, Fluffy" on Monday--- means same thing as "yes, Good girl!" On Tuesday kinda thing.

Don't leave the clicker lying about, people will mess with it.
And don't just randomly click it for fun, nope.

That click will become a powerful, meaningful noise, that says "Yes!! That's it, that right there!!"
I follow with treat And verbal praise, pettinBut the clicker is The Mark...
To learn How to correctly use a clicker, I self taught using youtube videos from "Kikipup", google "kikipup how to use a clicker"
It's dogs, but method is identical for cats.
Keep lessons super short, like 5 minutes,
And with play session.

Charlie can learn, too . All ages.

I find using a body gesture, hand gestures, as well as verbal cue, helps.

I will get someone to video Moki doing his tricks!!!.
THAT SAID,
MY GUESS IS,
SAVE TRICKS TRAINING FOR FUTURE. ...WHEN THEY ARE BORED
...when you are on school break...
RIGHT NOW, FINN AND CHARLIE HAVE ENUFF ON THEIR MINDS... they'd probably have trouble focusing:dancingblackcat: at this exciting point in their home...

So save tricks for laterrrrr
 
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Jcatbird

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Dec 5, 2017
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I just came on and saw the video. Charlie cracks me up. I think he really wants a buddy. Finn still needs to explore. I doubt he wants Charlie to interrupt.
Eating vomit. :doh: Really? Ewewewe!
I expect it was his own but if someone else just ate something really yummy then.... maybe. Often a young cat is confused by throwing up and they keep smacking.
If the loose stool continues, vet check before too much interaction. This is one of the main reasons for holding new kitties back awhile. Finn is on things that could be affecting his intestinal tract. Good idea to reduce them. Diet can also be the answer.
I agree that having true fights is rare. I only have one that doesn’t totally understand about somebody else wanting their space. He still gets to interact but if I leave the house, because he is large and strong, he is not left with the others. I still work to get him to understand though. He is still making progress. Some adjust slowly but I still feel that Finn and Charlie will be fine. To me, it looks like Charlie would like a playmate.:yess: I love watching them! Charlie!!! Sweet boy! Finn!!! A whole new world to explore!
 
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Buffster7

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Jul 1, 2019
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Update:

First of all, poop is firming up! I had a 'log' in the litter box today. I've kept Him on I and Love and You since yesterday, and I noticed the human probiotic was doing better for him than the other two. I've eliminated the supplements for now.

I let Finn out for a while (to be honest I had forgotten all about the poop thing and potential need to keep separated for that reason - I've been focused on behavioral.)

I'm rather shocked by how it went. Finn went hyper once out, but Charlie was so chill. Sure, he was stalker-ish and pinned Finn with his eyes a few times, but Finn was wild. The minute I saw him crouch behind a scratcher, I knew it was over. He went all wiggle-bottom and POUNCED on Charlie. There was a hiss from Charlie and light-tap swatting from both of them, and then they went their separate ways!

I didn't want it to end on that note, so I got a one of those Churu sticks and split it into two bowls and placed the around the corner from each other and called them over. I put Charlie's down first and Finn went right for it - was going to push Charlie out of the way! I grabbed Finn right as he reached Charlie's bowl, and Charlie just kept eating. Didn't react at all. I picked Finn up and put him down in front of his, and he ate his and then left Charlie's alone.

I then praised them both, took Finn back to his room, cuddled him a minute, then went to look for Charlie. He was laying around the corner from Finn's room-on his back, just chillin'.

WHAT!! Why are they so chill? Is it just ME that's freaking out thinking they're going to fight, and they're in fact fine with each other? Or did I just luck out and catch them on a good day? Next time I will try to remember to take video. I still can't believe Finn pounced Charlie, and that Charlie took it so well, and that there was no fight.
 

Jcatbird

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We all start out cautious. That’s the way it should be because we never know how things will go. This went great! I have thought from the start that they would be okay together. However, don’t let your guard completely down yet. Lol I firmly believe that they will be good for each other but in a new situation, roles are not yet established. You’ve all come soo far though! Great job!
Firm poop? Yay!! Things are “moving” right along.:lol:
 
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Buffster7

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Thank you guys!!
However, don’t let your guard completely down yet. Lol I firmly believe that they will be good for each other but in a new situation, roles are not yet established.
Oh, I won't. They were probably only out for about 7 minutes total. I'm too scared to let them out for longer than that! I'm afraid more minutes=more opportunity to get into a scuffle. If that happens eventually, how will I know when to intervene? Once one of the cats submits, the other one will usually back off, won't they?

Keep a close eye on them
Definitely. I can sense that Finn is getting more and more restless being shut in the room, and he's been slightly less affectionate the last few days and a little more agitated. He was really wild once he got out of the room today. I mean, is it normal for the new guy to pounce the resident cat right off the bat? Or is that uncommon?
 

Jcatbird

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Don’t get nervous. Just keep going as you have been. I think Finn is most likely to just dash off to explore. He is excited to know all about the house. I actually bought a fish net for use with the cats early on. If you are really nervous about handling a cat fight, you could try one. A find a broom is just as handy for separating kitties. Placed between them as a wall, it distracts and forms a barrier. I really doubt you’ll have anything more than a patty cake festival. I never needed the net but.... as you can see, the cats enjoy it. Lol
4931D7A9-C69F-43CD-B5AE-5D5BEA71CFEC.jpeg
 
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Buffster7

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I really doubt you’ll have anything more than a patty cake festival.
:crackup:Okay, that was funny!! A patty cake festival - oh that made me laugh.

I never needed the net but.... as you can see, the cats enjoy it. Lol
This makes me feel a LOT better. If you, who have rescued as many cats as you have, have never needed the net, my chances of needing one are slim. PHEW! Today when I saw Finn crouch and wiggle-bottom at Charlie I grabbed the closest thing to me, which was a glass of water, and was prepared to toss water on them. Which I'm sure is NOT advisable. Any suggestion for how long I should try to leave them out next time? Also,

Wonderful news! THIS sounds so great!! Congrats, Buffster!
Sounds like things are going the right way!!
Thanks so much - and I sure hope so!!
 

Jcatbird

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Crouching and wiggle bottom means Finn was going to pounce or make a dash for Charlie but that isn’t necessarily a threat as they do that during play too. That wiggle butt always cracks me up. The kitty cha cha. I am betting it would have been playful but if there was a startled hiss in return, there could have been some patty cake going on. Some swatting isn’t always bad. It’s done to establish rules, boundaries, hierarchy and in play. Some of this just has to be allowed. You can slowly increase the time they are together. At some point you will have to just see what happens but taking it calm and relaxed makes all go better. If you are seriously scared about Finn going bananas, get a cardboard box and if it is a complete emergency ( I can’t imagine would EVER be needed) you can drop it over whichever cat you can cover to end the issues and use it to guide the kitty into a safe place. I prefer a box over a blanket just because nobody can bite through it or jump on the cat under the blanket. You’ll probably just find the cats both want to play in the box. Cats love getting in boxes! Be prepared for the cat under the box to give you a serious stink eye once you lift the box off! :lol: Stink eye, tail flip, turn their back to you and flounce away! Total disgust! Seriously, a little scuffle won’t be the end of the world. Just keep going cuz you’re doing great. I have to stop Previous nearly every day. I think that he has made it a game. Who can I chase to make Mom stop what she is doing? Precious really wants to play but not everyone appreciates it. Muffin crouched down and growls. It sounds awful but it’s all about her just telling Precious to bug off! Nobody has gotten bitten or even a scratch. Swat, yep. Major game of , let’s match paws? Yep. Like two little bears rearing up. Chase the scaredy cat and double back to steal their treats! I allow some of this. No treat stealing but as long as no one is really scared, it about cats behaving like cats. Precious chases Smokey, Smokey chases Bonjure, Bonjure jumps in my lap and it’s all over. Imagine you are babysitting a couple of kids. Some kids are little angels, some are very active, some will want to be babied and some will have a wicked sense of humor. :angelcat::dizzycat::climbcat::runningcat::gingercat2::chessirecat:

Increase the visit time as you feel comfortable with it.
 
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Buffster7

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Crouching and wiggle bottom means Finn was going to pounce or make a dash for Charlie but that isn’t necessarily a threat as they do that during play too. That wiggle butt always cracks me up. The kitty cha cha. I am betting it would have been playful but if there was a startled hiss in return, there could have been some patty cake going on. Some swatting isn’t always bad. It’s done to establish rules, boundaries, hierarchy and in play. Some of this just has to be allowed. You can slowly increase the time they are together. At some point you will have to just see what happens but taking it calm and relaxed makes all go better. If you are seriously scared about Finn going bananas, get a cardboard box and if it is a complete emergency ( I can’t imagine would EVER be needed) you can drop it over whichever cat you can cover to end the issues and use it to guide the kitty into a safe place. I prefer a box over a blanket just because nobody can bite through it or jump on the cat under the blanket. You’ll probably just find the cats both want to play in the box. Cats love getting in boxes! Be prepared for the cat under the box to give you a serious stink eye once you lift the box off! :lol: Stink eye, tail flip, turn their back to you and flounce away! Total disgust! Seriously, a little scuffle won’t be the end of the world. Just keep going cuz you’re doing great. I have to stop Previous nearly every day. I think that he has made it a game. Who can I chase to make Mom stop what she is doing? Precious really wants to play but not everyone appreciates it. Muffin crouched down and growls. It sounds awful but it’s all about her just telling Precious to bug off! Nobody has gotten bitten or even a scratch. Swat, yep. Major game of , let’s match paws? Yep. Like two little bears rearing up. Chase the scaredy cat and double back to steal their treats! I allow some of this. No treat stealing but as long as no one is really scared, it about cats behaving like cats. Precious chases Smokey, Smokey chases Bonjure, Bonjure jumps in my lap and it’s all over. Imagine you are babysitting a couple of kids. Some kids are little angels, some are very active, some will want to be babied and some will have a wicked sense of humor. :angelcat::dizzycat::climbcat::runningcat::gingercat2::chessirecat:

Increase the visit time as you feel comfortable with it.
Ahhh, it really does me good to hear about others' experiences! I can only imagine some of the dust-ups you've seen and the kitty drama you must witness on the daily. Okay, I'll try not to be a ninny and allow them some time to work it out when I get the 'sense' that they are both in the right mood.

I was bemoaning Charlie's lack of claws to a classmate who has cats and telling her about Finn's fearlessness and claws, and Charlie's limited mobility and no claws. She responded, "Charlie will just flip over and use his back legs if he has to - that's what my girl did and she ruled the roost." I do need to know, though - the feeding issue. Is this when cat fights erupt? Do I need to feed them separately in their own rooms if Finn doesn't have boundaries (like yesterday when he went straight for Charlie's food dish)?

I usually get up between 4:00 - 5:00 am each day, but I don't wake Finn or get his breakfast to him for a couple hours. I sit and have my devotions and sup my coffee and cuddle Charlie while I wake up. I tiptoe around so as not to wake Finn - it's like that little bit of peace before the baby wakes up. He's very vocal and yowls a lot, and it sounds like a crying baby. This morning, Charlie cuddled briefly, then went straight to Finn's door and started talking to him through the door. Would not stop until he heard Finn's response. I was like, "OH NO YOU DI'NT!" :doh: :lol: It's storming here, so Charlie might have been checking on him in there.
 
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  • #578

Buffster7

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Not sure if this will work; posting from my phone. Can’t get this vid to upload to YouTube because it’s so long.
Do you have to have an iCloud account to view this?
 
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Buffster7

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Okay, I was too chicken to let Finn out this morning - I just gelt anxious and didn't want the boys to pick up on it, but Charlie was crying outside his door basically since we got up. So I brought out the cage.

This vid is long, but there are little interactions throughout the whole thing. What do you think?

 
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