I don't know what is best for these strays. If I leave, they will die

Hannaaaw

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Oct 27, 2019
Messages
17
Purraise
21
Hello all,
I am new to this forum... seeking advice about my current situation. I moved into the Los Angeles area two months prior, and in our neighborhood, there are tons of stray and feral animals. On our property, there was a pregnant stray momma cat that long story short, I found the kittens, and rehomed 3 (a couple took ALL 3 together!!) and took the 4th one to the shelter. I also trapped both the mom and dad and they are now sterilized and were given rabies vaccines.

After 2 months of caring for these cats, they've grown on me. They aren't ferals at all, but instead seem like strays that were just dumped here. I feed and play with them, and am getting them flea meds soon- so at this point, they are "my cats". I'm not financially capable of even having these two cats, nor can I bring them inside the house (tenants are allergic) so they basically just live outside on our property. I have contacted shelters and rescue groups to ask if they'd be able to possibly get them into homes, but I haven't heard back from any. Because it's the LA area, shelters everywhere are just packed with cats. Even my local shelter told me that truthfully, they are flooded as is with cats/kittens and that these two would most likely be overlooked. I know they both deserve an inside life, because they both are dying to come inside with me. They are always at my heels, purring and rubbing, and they look at me so defeated when I have to close that door on them. They try so hard to come inside with me though and it breaks my heart each time, but I'm doing the best I can with this situation. :(

I'm in a horrible position right now, however, because my roommate and I are trying to leave this house ASAP. The third roommate is psychotic with a wide range of mental issues, and she has said threatening things to us as well as those cats. She told me I should have "left those kittens out there to die" instead of rescuing and re-homing them, so we don't have even MORE cats on our property. Yeah. She's crazy. So we're in this emergency rush to find a new place for our own safety, as well as my other pets, and now I'm worrying for these two cats. They have no one else, it's only me that they trust and know they can rely on. And it's absolutely destroying me to think I have to leave them here with this witch, who I KNOW will call animal control and request they be euthanized. She's said she'll just tell animal control the cats are "feral and attack her dog all the time". I'm essentially the only thing standing in the way from her doing that.
My goal was to take them with me, and just let them be outdoor cats at the new place but I have no idea how to even HAVE a cat. I've never had one, and I'm a student so money is tight as is and truthfully, I just don't have the time. I love these two angels to death, they are part of my family but I don't know what to do that will be best for them. If I leave them at the only home they knew (my current house), they risk being killed by this wackjob. And no one would feed and care for them. I can't just abandon them like that... but I also don't know how I'd bring two cats to a new place and even acclimate them to the new outdoor area. It's a complete mess and I don't know what to do.

I'm still trying desperately to find people to adopt them but it's difficult finding anyone to take in two adult strays. I'm grateful that I found those kittens homes but I want the same for these two. I'd do anything to be able to keep them, but I don't know how I can do that at this time. They deserve better than what I can give them, but I know if I dropped them off at the shelter, they'd never leave. Please... any advice as to what I can do? I'm heartbroken over this. :(
 

Maria Bayote

Mama of 4 Cats, 4 Dogs , 2 Budgies & 2 Humans
Top Cat
Joined
Jan 15, 2018
Messages
4,171
Purraise
12,686
Thank you for taking care of these cats as much as you can under limited circumstances. You have a good heart.

Is there a no kill shelter at your area? Although I think this is the last option.

Since no one seems to be able to take care or foster these cats, would it really be impossible for you to bring them along? However, during the first several weeks you have to contain them in your yard so they'd get to be familiarized with their surroundings. Otherwise, they might leave and go searching for their previous place.

Do you have anyone, any friends, who can pitch in to help you also build up a catio outside your new place? Materials don't need to be brand new, but some used wood enough to build a mini enclosure outside your new place, and will have access to your room.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3

Hannaaaw

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Oct 27, 2019
Messages
17
Purraise
21
Thank you for taking care of these cats as much as you can under limited circumstances. You have a good heart.

Is there a no kill shelter at your area? Although I think this is the last option.

Since no one seems to be able to take care or foster these cats, would it really be impossible for you to bring them along? However, during the first several weeks you have to contain them in your yard so they'd get to be familiarized with their surroundings. Otherwise, they might leave and go searching for their previous place.

Do you have anyone, any friends, who can pitch in to help you also build up a catio outside your new place? Materials don't need to be brand new, but some used wood enough to build a mini enclosure outside your new place, and will have access to your room.
The shelter I spoke with is a no kill but they told me they really couldn't take them since it's kitten season. Basically I know if I take them there, they won't be looked at. The female is an adorably sweet cat but she needs time to trust people, or she gets a little nippy. The male is a SWEETHEART but oh so shy. Very timid and doesn't trust many, and he has something wrong with his... voice? He can't meow at all, but the shelter examined him and told me he wasn't sick so they assume he's just mute. He also has a limp and some scars, most likely from fights, so they both would be very hard to rehome. I think that is the absolute last resort as well.

I've been thinking about that as well, building something for them outside. I just didn't know if it's cruel to keep them contained that way, how to go about it, the cost involved... It's all very new to me so I really have no idea where to start. I want them to be able to come inside with me at the new place, but they can't go through the house (my roomie is allergic, but she's cool if they're inside my room). I was wondering if it'd be better to buy those play pen/tall cages that pet stores keep the adoptable cats in? I can keep them in my room that way and maybe acclimate them to live inside and outdoors? I just don't know, I really don't. I have a dog and two reptiles already so I'm feeling overwhelmed if I brought in two more animals just in my room lol. But I'll do it if it works and I can manage it, I just need to figure out how. :(
 

dragonlady2

TCS Member
Adult Cat
Joined
Sep 7, 2013
Messages
104
Purraise
165
If your bedroom window is on the main floor, you could potentially put a cat door in the window which would lead to an outdoor space. The outdoor space could temporarily be a couple of cages on top of each other until you could figure out if the catio will work. I will post an example of one we made for one of the cats. You could have the same setup in your bedroom.
You will be surprised how well these cats will adapt to new surroundings.
 

Attachments

fionasmom

Moderator
Staff Member
Moderator
Joined
Jun 21, 2014
Messages
13,125
Purraise
17,372
Location
Los Angeles
Given the situation with the cats who have no place else to go along with their bond to you, I think that you should try to take them, even if it is not a permanent adoption. It is not cruel to keep them in your room or some sort of an enclosure like D dragonlady2 has posted. I have kept cats in a large bathroom, an entire litter for 5 months because there was not alternative. You might be shocked at how willing these two are to just be safe and to know that they are loved. They know that their outdoor situation has not been the best and that is why they are so attached to you. The personality of the female and injuries to the male show how bad things have been. You have shown them kindness and care and have done an excellent job with the others you have already removed from the property.

If you can even take them for a short while to get them away from the person who is threatening to kill them it would be monumental for them. Once you can think clearly, you might be able to find homes using an app like Nextdoor or you might find a rescue who can help.

LA is full of animal rescues all of whom are very impacted, sadly. You might get lucky with finding one you trust, but I think that the energy should be put into trying to evacuate these cats with you. In all my life in LA, at least my adult life with animals, I have never had a rescue group take an animal for me except once when I offered an insane amount of money to them to have a dog rehomed....which I fortunately did not have to do in the long run. A lot of rescues are busy picking up their own animals....off the streets, from shelters. Animal control is basically doing what it can with usually sad outcomes, but the number who cannot be helped is staggering.

No kill shelters usually have the right to make long term decisions about animals who are not adopted, so clarify that with any that you interact with.

Thank you so much for all your compassion for these two cats and for the other work you have done already. I hope you find a place that is safer and happier to rent.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6

Hannaaaw

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Oct 27, 2019
Messages
17
Purraise
21
So those stacked cages as listed in the example above, is that big enough for both of them? We're looking into rentals currently, preferably with nice yards for the cats and my dog. But I guess my confusion is, would I keep them both in that enclosure outside, or inside? Like, I'd love for them to come inside only if they want to when I'm home only, and they both have expressed that they REALLY want to. But as a student, I'm not here for most parts of the day so they'd have to be outside in the yard, or locked up. And I don't know what the best option is... do I keep them outdoors or try indoors first?

And yes that's my experience with contacting rescues here so far, only one has even messaged me back. So I'm a lose and I just feel terrible that I can't do more, but once I'm out of this house it'll be so much better for everyone involved. I really do love these two, and to be greeted by both of them daily and just loved on.... it really is the best feeling in the world. I really love these two little brats haha, they make my day. I'll try and get some cute pics of them together tonight, they're very hard to photo- they just can't stand walking around me in circles rubbing on me hahaha!
 

moxiewild

Seniors, Special Needs, Ferals, and Wildlife
Super Cat
Joined
Aug 4, 2014
Messages
1,112
Purraise
1,520
You are obviously a very compassionate and responsible person! Thank you for looking out for these guys and getting Mom and Dad fixed!

Okay, so I have a lot of questions, please bear with me!

Strays and ferals who live outside and are then relocated are often contained at their new home for a minimum of 3 weeks. I’ve done this many times before and there are several ways to go about it.

Have you already found your new place? If so, do you have a backyard? A back porch? A room on the main floor with a window out back? Details like this can help us guide you as to what your options might be.

What sort of budget do you think you would have to spend to contain these two? That will also help us to better advise.

You initially said you cannot bring them inside because tenants are allergic, but your follow up comment made it seem like it might be an option at the new place. Will you no longer be living with people with allergies then?

Are these kitties bonded? Do they get along well enough to be contained together?

Have they already been introduced to your dog? If so, does everyone get along?

I agree with fionasmom, the best thing to do right now is to focus on how you can take them with you. You can answer more long term questions once that’s done. Think of yourself as a temporary foster if it helps to ease the stress about it so you don’t get too overwhelmed.

Once you have that figured out, we can then assist you on the second phase of things as far as finding out a more permanent situation for these guys.
 

moxiewild

Seniors, Special Needs, Ferals, and Wildlife
Super Cat
Joined
Aug 4, 2014
Messages
1,112
Purraise
1,520
The containment can occur inside or outside. The easiest thing would simply be to have them free roam in your house or room so long as everyone gets along and you make sure to secure your reptile enclosures.

Depending on your space, if contained indoors, some other options would be to contain them in a spare room, a laundry room, a bathroom, or even a larger sized closet. Another way to do it is to contain them in a large wire dog crate indoors (You can stack two large ones on top of one another or side by side with one cat in each, or you can connect two large cages so that they can be in there together), or a “cat cage” if you need something with a smaller footprint, like this -


If you decide to contain outdoors, you can also use these crates out there, too - just be sure you’re able to protect them from the elements (we can help with ideas for that).

If your new place has a patio, we can help advise you of how to temporarily enclose it fairly cheaply and easily to create a “catio”.

You can also modify a chain link fence dog kennel.

For the containment period, you can’t allow them to be official indoor/outdoor cats - they will be on lockdown in some sort of enclosed space for a few weeks. Meaning you can’t allow them to free roam outside to go potty or anything like that, you’ll need to provide litter boxes. Does that make sense? After the containment period, you can begin to ease up on that and allow them to explore outside of any enclosure.

Indoor only cats are much safer than any cat who free roams outside for any length of time. You’ll need to make that decision as far as what you want and what you can do once containment is over.

But indoor only cats are far safer and live a much longer life on average. And if you decide to allow them to be indoor only, then containment isn’t even necessary, at least not in the same sense - you only need to contain them as you would bringing home any new pet, or if you have to properly introduce them to other animals.

Let me know if I need to clarify anything, I know it can sound a bit confusing!
 

Jcatbird

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Dec 5, 2017
Messages
10,301
Purraise
58,378
Location
United States
Your post really touched me. I understand that frantic feeling of having a sick person putting cats at risk. I faced that too and the only answer became taking the cats away from the risk. Please take them with you.
My situation was different in some ways. There were a lot of kitties. I had to bring them inside and because of the numbers, I needed to contain many during the process. The cats were ferals and , like you, I wondered how they would do. Although they were nervous and each one adjusted at a little different pace, they all adjusted beautifully. They are all leading Happy lives now. I used cages like the ones pictured above as well as bedrooms, bathroom, whatever was available at the time. The cats are just grateful to be loved, safe, and cared for. You can start them in a cage indoors and if desired, start allowing them the run of your room or just allow them the room to begin with. Either way can be worked out. Inside is the safest thing for them. If you can work out a safe outdoor alternative, then I just say do whatever it takes to protect them and keep them with you. I think you are awesome for caring. Thank you, thank you! I know your stress level must be tough right now and the fact that you are taking them into consideration is huge. You’re doing the right thing. One step at a time. Get them and get moved and keep posting. Everyone here will be available to support and guide you through the process. We welcome you here. I wish everyone was like you. :welcomesign::rock:
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10

Hannaaaw

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Oct 27, 2019
Messages
17
Purraise
21
Thank you all so much for the lovely comments; it makes me feel like what I'm doing IS actually the right thing so thank you!!

So we're still searching for places but all of them do have a yard except one of them, which is just a concrete patio. Not the greatest thing, especially for my dog, but at this point we can't be too picky. It will definitely have a yard of some sort though. The one we're currently interested in has a HUGEEEE backyard and patio for all of the pets to enjoy, and realistically would be an absolute safe haven for these guys. We plan on viewing the place once the owner contacts me, but I was thinking... would a mix of indoor/outdoor work? If I bought or made them an outside enclosure that was connected through my window, that then lead into the stacked cages for inside time, is that something they could acclimate to? My roommate is fine with them being in my room but she doesn't want them around the house due to her allergies. I personally don't mind them roaming around my room, as long as they can acclimate to that and only when I'm there to monitor them. Otherwise, I thought if I could give them the option of either staying inside their cages indoors, and then having an exit out through the window to their outside pen, would that be better? I hate to leave them free roaming outdoors because I worry for them, so if I can keep them as contained as possible, while still giving them what they need, that's what I hope to do. And when my situation in the future changes, I hope to convert them to completely indoor kitties once I'm on my own/living with others who don't have allergies haha.

As for the kitties, they are definitely pretty bonded. They're always out there together, groom each other, and I don't think they'd fair well if I had to separate them. That's why I think they'd be fine together in the enclosures, despite the smaller space. They do get along great with my dog actually! He's a little scared of the momma though... I think she tries to play with him/groom him, but she ends up accidentally hurting/scaring him. She gives a ton of "love bites" for whatever reason when petting her. But they all hang out in the yard together and they know how to respect one another, so they thankfully have no issues with each other!

As far as budget, I'm really having to be careful with all of this. I want to get them into a real vet appointment so that's an additional cost and I have to figure out the enclosures now too. For the enclosures alone.... I don't think I could afford anything over $200 at this point. Making it myself will be extremely difficult since I'm disabled and can't do much lifting and physical activity :[ But I'm sure I could find something on Craigslist that may work, or can speak with my schools workshop and ask if they're willing to help me make something. It may not be luxurious but it's something! I've done a lot of research on designs, so I just need to figure out the cost and how to make this. Will definitely be a project for me haha.

I hope I answered all the questions! Thanks so much for everything guys, I've been crying over this whole situation wondering how to go about this and I'm feeling a lot more confident now. Still stressed as ever but I know it'll be worth it in the end.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #11

Hannaaaw

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Oct 27, 2019
Messages
17
Purraise
21
IMG_20191027_173303.jpg

Here is the sassy, lovable momma, Lily! Goodness she is a love bug but definitely has some trust issues with hands that we're working on. She will swat and love bite my hand if I'm moving my hand directly towards her face, but if I approach from the side then she's fine... She's a little bit of an oddball but I adore her.

IMG_20191025_174719__01.jpg

Here is the gentle boy, Cooper! He tries so hard to meow and purr but nothing comes out. He's still perfect to me and wow did neutering him make a world's difference in his behavior. He's so much more loving and trusting now ❤

CE75EA1B-5A73-4FDD-9CFC-CC0A8F786F41.jpeg

Here are the 3 kitties after just a couple days from being rescued. They were very nervous and scared but the family that took them in are literally the best home these babies could have ever found. Seriously such amazing people for adopting all 3 of them!!

image0-7.jpg

And here they are just a couple days ago! They finally got past the 21 day quarantine and are now being introduced into their home with their two senior cats!! I get to go and see them all in a week, cannot wait to see how they've changed since I rescued them. Left ones name is Nougat, middle is Peanut, and I'm totally blanking on the third angels name hahaha Seeing their updated videos and pics of them seriously has made this all worth it though, stress and all. Getting any and all strays off the streets is my dream for all animals. Glad I can help even in a tiny way.
 

Jcatbird

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Dec 5, 2017
Messages
10,301
Purraise
58,378
Location
United States
Yes! Your ideas about attaching an enclosure will work. Just make sure they cannot get out. Regular porch screen is something they will probably scratch at and put holes in. The metal mesh hardware screen cannot be scratched through. Mosquitos need to be kept out too if possible so maybe screen as an outside layer. Many humane societies offer help with Spay/neutered vet checks. You can call and if they don’t then ask if they can point you to any discount services. There are many programs available. My daughter was disabled and I now find programs geared for any with health or physical issues. It’s always important to research the area for discounts and assistance. Once you know where you’re going we can all help you take the next step.
I think approaching the school is an excellent idea! Bravo! If the school ever needs a way to produce products to raise money, a good catio would be a great thing to sell. If you look at them online as pre fabricated kits, they bring a good price. Many are not that sturdy either! Go for it! You’ve got this! :banana1:
 

Jcatbird

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Dec 5, 2017
Messages
10,301
Purraise
58,378
Location
United States
We crossed posts and I just saw the photos! I see why you love them all. They are beautiful! They’ve got a little piece of my heart now too.
Lily can be taught about the nipping. It’s a common behavior among kitties that grow up without parental guidance or human contact. You can try redirecting the nipping to a toy or even something like an old sock. She may be a bit nervous outside and maybe that will change later. She may also be using that as affection nips. She’ll get better about it.
I know you are looking forward to seeing your rescued babies. I am so thankful that people like you are out there. You give me hope and lift me up. You are not alone in your hopes for the kitties. Thank you so much for the photos. That smile made my day.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #15

Hannaaaw

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Oct 27, 2019
Messages
17
Purraise
21
I can probably collect free material to use for the catio as well. I go to a huge art school so we have all sorts of majors here that go through all types of materials, lord knows what I may find. I'm an illustrator haha, so I think I can manage to draw up some cool designs. So I was looking at this video and this is what I'd like to follow as reference. Basically I can just open my window and they're free to come and go as they please, whenever the window is open. I'd like to figure out a way to attach the cat condo to the door flap that leads outside, so they can still come inside when I'm not home if they want... but they won't have free roam unless I'm home. I also have to figure out how to do that flap without ruining the mesh since I can't damage any of the property. @_@
Also guys for a humane enclosure for these two cats to live in, what dimensions am I looking at? I mean for their own safety, I'd prefer them to live in an enclosure / partial indoors versus being free roaming outdoors ever again, so I want to make sure it's plenty big for them. Any recommendations?

This is the video btw!
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #16

Hannaaaw

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Oct 27, 2019
Messages
17
Purraise
21
We crossed posts and I just saw the photos! I see why you love them all. They are beautiful! They’ve got a little piece of my heart now too.
Lily can be taught about the nipping. It’s a common behavior among kitties that grow up without parental guidance or human contact. You can try redirecting the nipping to a toy or even something like an old sock. She may be a bit nervous outside and maybe that will change later. She may also be using that as affection nips. She’ll get better about it.
I know you are looking forward to seeing your rescued babies. I am so thankful that people like you are out there. You give me hope and lift me up. You are not alone in your hopes for the kitties. Thank you so much for the photos. That smile made my day.
I'm so glad you love the pictures, and thank you so much for the kind words!! I just have a hard time saying no to any animal, but these two especially... they're just very special to me. They just sit outside our house waiting for me, and they know the times I usually wake up now so they're always there booping their little heads through our outside door, looking inside for me. :p Their little meows and Coopers puffs of air, gosh that gets me everytime. Cooper though, jesssssus that cat has my heart. I'm not sure why, but there's something very special about him. I adore Lily of course, she is a little too much in love with me at times though LOL I can't even walk one foot away from her without her stopping me with a circle-of-rubbing my legs. She's a very clingy girl but such a lovebug that I think will take well to the indoors. I think I fell for Cooper since he is a little more beaten up, like with his muteness, limping, mouth issues (I think he was hit by a car at one point... his jaw kind of hangs open). He's a little survivor that finally found someone he could trust, and I'm very grateful he chose me. My neighbor that lives in the back saw me with him one day, as he's rubbing all over me and wanting head scratches, and she goes, "how on earth did he let you pet him?? I've been trying for a year"! That made my day honestly, that he finally saw that not all people are horrible and he can trust again. :< I'm so determined to get this made for them, I seriously am. I want this for them!
 

fionasmom

Moderator
Staff Member
Moderator
Joined
Jun 21, 2014
Messages
13,125
Purraise
17,372
Location
Los Angeles
You are doing a great job and those pics of the kittens are adorable. The photos of Lily and Cooper do show some remnants of a hard life which is why they are so thrilled to have found a safe haven in you. I am not one to advise on anything like dimensions or building, but if you keep googling catios you will find a lot of information I am sure. A little bigger might be better if you want them to use it as their outdoor area, but I don't mean gigantic. I am still guessing that Lily and Cooper will be so happy to have a home that they may never want back out on the "mean streets" again. The cats I have now are all rescues....the joke with my friends is that I basically just wait until an animal in horrendous need comes by and adopt that one....and no one wants to go outside. I have even tried letting them sit out in the yard, especially if I know that they cannot exit, like Stella my diabetic cat who has mild neuropathy, and they are instantly plaster themselves on the door and howl to come back in. I think that with access to an art school you certainly can get some input about getting this project done.
 

walli

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jan 31, 2017
Messages
1,246
Purraise
2,627
Just want to say how really important that the cats not get loose for 2-3 weeks, it will take time for them to realize this is home
and they will try to get back "home"
Lots of people here will help you step by step, so no worries, you are doing a great thing!
and I agree there is most likely a low cost vet that you can find, and some people here will help you find them!
 

fionasmom

Moderator
Staff Member
Moderator
Joined
Jun 21, 2014
Messages
13,125
Purraise
17,372
Location
Los Angeles
Very true about confining them....even if you adopt a barn cat from a shelter or a cat to use outdoors intentionally for vermin control, they will tell you that the cat has to be confined for a month (time frame could vary I suppose) so that they understand this is home. If you bring them to a new place and just release them, they will lose all sense of where they are and feel abandoned again.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #20

Hannaaaw

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Oct 27, 2019
Messages
17
Purraise
21
Awesome, think I'm understanding this a lot more now! I have found a place that has a large yard and windows to my room in which I could install the cat patio, and I'm going to tour the place tomorrow! I think I'll have to keep them indoors inside a cat condo cage, just until I'm able to make this catio. I'm halfway through school and already struggling to keep up with the work but going to try my best to get this made ASAP for them. It's just hard considering everything going on already, but seriously thank you all for the advice so far. I'm truly grateful to see others share the same compassion I have for these animals. My family back home keep telling me to just "leave them there, they'll be fine alone", but I would never forgive myself. These cats have bonded with me, and vice versa... they're essentially MY cats at this point despite telling people that I'm just fostering them. If they're happy with being inside their enclosure and maybe indoors with me, then.... I think they have a true, permanent spot in my home for them.
I'm worried when I leave for break though what on earth I'm gonna do if my roommates or friends can't come care for them. No clue about that yet.... @_@
 
Top