I did it!! Sub-q'ed my kitty

[denice]

Congratulations   It will much easier from now on.

 

[wasabipea]

Thank you, I think it will be, for both of us. I could almost see it dawning on her little face "we can do this at home with no car involved?" Lol

 

[cocheezie]

Well done!

 

[catsallaround]

Awl.  I am so happy for you two!!!  Good job!

 

[wasabipea]

Thank you!

 

[keyshaj]

Yay!!!

 

[betsygee]

I just posted about this in your other thread.  That's great news!!!  Really glad to hear it.  

 

[wasabipea]

Thank you! Yesterday went pretty well, I know there will be off days - but for the first real time, it went well. And I was all by myself too!

 

[that guy]

That's great to hear, sounds like you are a pro now. There will always be good times and bad times when it comes to dealing with an animal that may not understand why you are doing it but in the end it is all for the good. Over the last week I have had the needle come out twice but I just change out the needle and get it back in there and keep going. My guy was getting 100ml a day but he went to see a specialist and after about 13 hours his mouth was fairly dry so it is being upped to 150ml a day. Hopefully it is easy getting a pock to do the injection on your car, mine is so skinny and frail it can be really hard at times. I usually have a second hand for giving a sub-q so my job is usually just keeping the cat occupied but for the last week everyone has been away so I have been doing it solo and my guy is so good and just sits there no matter how much I screw up.

I totally understand where you were coming from with the new cat as well, my guy is in the same situation and I struggle with this one myself. He had a buddy for 17 years of his life and then the buddy was gone and he was left with only humans. My tenant had a cat that was given to him that had a great personality and I introduced them a few times and there was a bit of hissing and so on which cats will do but nothing dramatic. Then his cat was having coughing attacks and was not doing well so I kept my cat away because his immune system is destroyed and I did not want him to catch anything that would take him out. I turned out the tenants cat had cancer and was getting near the end so he lost this chance for a friend. He still goes downstairs and wants to sniff around but he never does find the other cat which makes it worse for me. Because of the drugs I have to give him (I sneak some in his food) and his downtime when he is not doing well I decided that he will just have to learn to live with only humans. As much as I would like him to have a buddy I have to be able to monitor what goes in and out of him and it would be hard with another cat there.

It sounds like you are doing the right things for the right reasons and hopefully it all works out and you can keep your pal as healthy as possible and more importantly happy. It is a real struggle to have to go through this but in the end you are helping someone in need that is not able to do anything for themselves. Keep up the good work.

 

[peaches08]

I did it... i really did it - at home, the full 200 ccs (maybe more by accident) - all by myself (and Roni).She was very good for the most part and cooperative.

She likes to take a stroll outside after her sub-qs, so i let her out for a few, and when she came back in, not only did i NOT get the cold shoulder, i was treated to a lap snuggle complete with purring:rub:

I hope the fluids help, she's having a bad eating day.

Yay, one success does wonders for the confidence level.

I'm so glad!  Once you get a few done it turns into "old hat"  

 

[wasabipea]

Well day 2 didn't go so well... about to do Round 2 of Day 2.

Confidence a bit shaken, but still determined.

Eta: confidence severely undermined but I got maybe 100-125 in her. She has learned that as soon as she feels the needle, if she cries, I'll pull back (out of habit).
I don't know if she is hurt, or playing me. She's on her perch washing herself (and eating again).She is looking at me with big eyes like she wants to come over, but pride says no. At least she's not looking at me like she wants to shred me.

 

[cocheezie]

I'd consider getting 100-125ml into her a success. Much better than getting none in at all. 

iPod? good and loud? get your groove on.

 

[peaches08]

I'm very good at giving injections (I give myself intramuscular injections), and I still bounce when I get stuck.  It's a natural reaction, and she can probably tell you're nervous so she gets nervous.  And again if you're going slow and nervous with the poke, it can hurt.  Stick quick and confidently. 

 

[wasabipea]

Ipod - lol. Crank up some Metallica good and loud. That's my butt-kicking music. Good idea.

Actually peaches.... The first night I showed little nervousness, I think I was still really mad/hurt at the vet and that helped to steel my resolve that we were on her own.

Last night once she discovered the "cry when needle touches me" thing - and my reflex is to pull back. She milked it. She wasn't happy the whole time - but I got some into her.

The first night went off like a charm though. I have to remember that for future pokes, plus I ordered some Terumos UTWs - Everyone says they make a world of difference.

I also have to learn the best position for the cat, her body is sort of curled and is it possibe to hit her shoulder blade? I guess I'd know Stat if that happened.

 

[that guy]

You may or may not know if you are hitting anything because cats are good at hiding things. I don't know if she would really feel it if you glanced one of her shoulder blades as there are no nerve ending so I believe it is the initial poke more than the rest of the insertion. I would also try to find different spots to hit her if possible but this can be hard. My guy is so skinny and tends to lie down the same way so the only place I can really get him is the same each time. He is really old and has arthritis so I am not able to easy shift him around so I have to take what I get. I would most certainly use UTW needles and I have just switched to 21 gauge from 20 to make it a little easier and he seems to be fine with this. One trick I read about is to take the needles and put them in the freezer first to make it really cold so that they can't feel it as much as it goes in and then they warm up quickly.

I also massage the skin and form a pocket and then let go a number of times so he doesn't really know when it is coming which may help with you. I am very gentle with him and do not pinch him as I am massaging the skin and once I know I can get him I let it go and then form the pocket again and let him have it. When I give him his sub-q I usually use one hand and hold it around his should blades so he can't get up and then use the other to check the needle and pet him. He is really calm and doesn't cause many issues so it is not too hard most of the time once the needle is in. The more you do it the more both of you will get used to it and it will get easier and easier. I think once she feels how much better she feels after the sub-q it will also get easier. The easiest way to tell her hydration level is to stick the tip of your finger inside her cheek and see if it is moist, if it is dry she needs more water. If she is dehydrated then she will not feel good and will not want to eat so it is important to keep that hydration level up.

There will always be botched attempts but if you are getting 100ml into her than that is great and you can leave it at that and go at it the next day.

 

[wasabipea]

That's a good idea to do the "fake tenting" and massaging so that she won't really know. I also have to figure out the best way to face her and try to bet the best angle for needle insertion. Once it's in, she,s usually OK - I keep one hand lightly on her shoulders about where the needle is, and the other scratching her ears and making "good girl" talk.

I ordered terumo 20 UTWs and can't wait for them!!

I let the fluids get done at he vet tonight since she went in for her B12 injection, and after last night i wanted to make sure he got her full dose.

Back at it tomorrow!

Thx

 

[that guy]

You want to watch how she reacts with the massaging and tent making though because you don't want her to think a sub-q is always coming. Test it a bit and see how she reacts to it but keep petting and massaging which may help her adjust to it. You can also give her the B12 injections as well, it is easy to do when you are doing a sub-q. I buy the kits with the injection ports in it so I get the flow going and take the needle and stick in the port as the sub-q liquid starts to flow. I pinch off the line above the port and then slowly inject the B12 and it will get pulled right in and then I gently release my pinched line and let the flow start up again. B12 is red so it is really easy to watch it and make sure it goes in the correct direction. Some things you inject sting so you have to deal with it a little differently but there are no issues with B12. Your cat would rather you do all of these things and she would also like to stay home as much as possible so look at why you are taking her to the vet and assess whether you could do it or not. Your cat is far more forgiving of you than she would be to a stranger so save money, reduce her stress, and do as much as you can at home. My guy went into see the feline specialist (first vet visit I have had where 75% of the time was spent sitting on the floor) and I could see he was not happy with the whole thing and was hissing then went to bathroom in his carrier (both kinds) then had no interest in snacks and threw up twice later on after he got home.

So today for my sub-q I two bad pokes, they both went in with too much resistance so I knew they were not right. The first one I pulled out but I tried for the second one because he was not bothered by it but the needle pushed out so I had to abort. He got tired of this and jumped down and ate a little food then jumped back up for try number three which thankfully worked. I try to be one with the needle and imagine where it is going and although the first two pockets seemed fine the needle just couldn't find the pocket. It happens, yesterday was great and you try the same thing the next day and it fails over and over. Once he gets his sub-q it is always nap time for Scratchy so I give him his sub-q and then give him a few of the crappiest treats for him which he loves and then it is off to la-la land for a while.

I always try to face him when I give him the needle or stand perpendicular to him on his right which allows me (right handed) to easily push it towards his head as it is going in. You will have to play around and see which position is easiest for you to perform that movement. I usually end up trying to face him if possible and keep my head close to him and talk to him. Most of the time he will purr right through the whole thing and just hang out. If he wants to take off it is usually a really bad insertion or the needle has shifted and is sitting somewhere that is not comfertable. I also start the sub-q slow start then ramp up in small degrees and each time I am checking to make sure there are no leaks and the needle is not backing out. I bought an IV pole off of e-Bay (it came with no wheels, curse you Chinese works) and then use a hanging scale so I know exactly how much is going into him. The lines aren't exactly accurate because the shape of the bag is not consistent and the lines have not been adjusted for this, You can be upwards of 25ml off with the lines and because you are not making nuclear weapons it is not as important but I wanted to make sure he was getting exactly what he needed. If the needle comes out and I have gotten at least half of it into him I will abort and give him a bit more the next day to make up for it. I also heat up the fluids to 92 degrees C and he seems to enjoy this temp and don't see any twitching or anything.

 

[wasabipea]

I took her in for a B12 last night, and the vet gives a seperate shot for that, and I asked if there was any way I could give them to her via tubing port and I was told that I had to bring her in for the B12. When I was going to the vet every night, I would get B12 once a week - I guess if I have to take her in for it, I'll decrease to once every 10 days and mark it on the calendar.

Part of me suspects that they want to keep an eye on her condition. I think that they think I am keeping her around far too long for selfish reasons - but all things considered, I think she is doing very well - and I am being realistic with knowing her days are numbered. some days I wouldn't even know that with her white count, she should probably be dead - she looks normal, older but normal. They even weighed her last night, first time in a few weeks and she was up .1 lb, 7.7 lbs - so she is eating. She does eat a vitamin fortified gel (loves it) as a treat and gets lots of vitamins that way, but I heard B12 is better absorbed directly "into" the cat.

I think it's more the probable stomach cancer diagnosis they are watching, with daily fluids of 200 - it keeps her creatinine at 2.2 or thereabouts I suspect. Her CKD has never gotten out of control until she went into mourning. Then aggressive fluid therapy got her back on track.

I hate taking her to the vet's though, I can tell my vet is chomping at the bit to stick the lethal needle in her instead of rooting for her. I've been doing a lot of learning on my own via chats with members here and Tanya's site, there are so many things the vet didn't tell me, they don't care anymore. All they think to treat CKD is fluids and I had to suggest the B12. I have to start looking for another vet, too bad because I like the techs.

Do you put the cat in a box when you do yours? I think next time I might try it box-free. At the vet's they take off the top lid and she curls up in the lower portion to get her fluids. But when she is at the vets, the carrier means "going home" vs, at home, where the carrier means "going somewhere - no!" so the first time I did it in the carrier and it was fine. The second time was in a box, and didn't go so well. But she tried to escape from the carrier at home. I don't know if that makes any sense. I need to "perfect" my setup and I'm dying for my terumo needles. Right now I'm using 18G monoject and if I really focus I can get it in first try, but usually it's a mess. Well, I'm a newbie - so there is a lot to learn still, but a better needle will help wonders.

And when I said random tenting and massaging, I meant before the poke - not all the time. I wouldn't want her walking on eggshells all the time wondering if she is going to get poked. Some days I'm tempted to sneak up on her while she is laying on her window perch sleeping because she is in the best position... but she loves her perch and I don't want her to make that association.

Anyway... onward we go. I joined Tanya's support site so I'm sure lots of folks here will see me there

Thanks again for your support. I'm sure more questions will be popping up down the line.

 

[that guy]

If they want to check the cat then that is fine but they are not injecting the B12 intravenously into a vein, they are doing it subcutaneously under the skin. When you do it with the sub-q fluids the only down side is it takes longer for the B12 to be fully absorbed. For some meds this may not work as well because it takes longer for it to be absorbed but for B12 it is fine. Odd though, my vet encourges owners to do this at home as it does reduce the stress to your cat which helps her stay in a good state of mind.

I don't know about the box thing, I use all sorts of methods depending on how he is feeling including the sneak attack. Usually he jumps up on the dining room chair as pictured below (it has 4" egg crate foam under it so it is nice and soft but not too soft) and then I give him his fluids and he does as he wishes. The other day he was tired and konked out as you see him and most days he does nap after the sub-q. He also hangs out there to be close to the humans and I don't think he ever thinks of it as 'the spot' where he gets the sub-q. I have given him sub-qs on the floor inside and out, in his many cat beds, on chairs, in cabinets, his cat tower, and where ever there is room to get to him. I believe the idea is to keep him comfortable and in a spot he likes and he never seems to shy away from these spots after this. He is also a cat so a place he may like one day he will not use for a week or a day or an hour but he always comes back at some point. You can always try it once in one of her favourite spots and see how she reacts because she will probably be a little more relaxed. All cats are different so you really have to check and see how she reacts to these things. My guy will jump right up onto that chair when it is around sub-q time and let me give him his sub-q without a fuss most times. I think he has been getting these enough now that he knows they make him feel better so hopefully your cat also finds this same relief.

Scratchy_003.jpg

• that guy
• Aug 13, 2014

 

[wasabipea]

That is is one conked out kittycat!

Well, to keep it short, tonight for the most part went excellent. The first poke wasn't getting a good flow and she was making mews of discomfort. I went to reposition the needle and it came out. Changed needles and since there was already fluid in there, I repeated the "become one with the needle" - in it went, with excellent flow.

The water was warmed, which I don't think they do at the office and she sat there and purred. Purred! I didn't even have to really hold her down (did sort of a sneak attack on her perch) and she just looked out the window. She looked like she was testing the waters for a "leave" but i put my hand on her and she settled back in.

When I was finished, she looked at me like "really? That's it?" and started grooming herself.

I was worried tonight was going o be a "bad night" since she looked frail when i got home, but she looks better already.

We are both very happy. :rub: