I did it!! Sub-q'ed my kitty

[wasabipea]

This is probably not worthy of it's own thread, but for my little TCS support group re: poking my cat with the needle and my fear of it... with my vet tech's patient guidance, I administered the fluids and think I'm OK with doing them at home now.

Now we just need to find the optimum mix of intervals and amount.

She was getting 200ccs every other day - too much. If I waited 4 days and gave her 200, well 4 days was too long and she would downward spiral with other maladies.

Her kidney values are barely out of the normal range, I'm just giving her fluids because at her age, I think it helps her feel better.

Going to experiment with 100 every other day. My gut tells me that should be adequate. She's 7.5 lbs...or was. Eating lately hasnt been going that well. And she is 18 yrs old, with other issues, big and small.

Anyway, I just wanted to say "i did it!" -- what was I so afraid of?
This calls for a dancing banana!

 

[denice]

I am so glad you were able to get it done.  It will be so much easier for your kitty and you to be able to give them at home.  

 

[peaches08]

Great news!  I remember the relief I felt the first time I did it, and it was worth celebrating!

 

[cocheezie]

Well done!!!!! Hope it continues to go well. If not, we are all here for you.

 

[wasabipea]

Yep Thank you
even tho she is good in the car, and at the office, any reduction in stress at this point is a very good thing!

 

[goholistic]

Oh, just saw this thread! I'll repeat myself from the other thread: 

Yeah! 

 

[wasabipea]

Oh, just saw this thread! I'll repeat myself from the other thread: 

Yeah! 

Thank you, but my first solo flight crashed and burned. I can tell she needs fluids too. Discouraged.

 

[cocheezie]

We all have crash and burn sessions. She probably got fed up with being poked. There are a couple of tricks.

First, you need to get the switchy thing (sorry, it's night and I'm tired) close to the needle end of the line so you can reach it easily.

Corner the cat and place it in a position where it cannot move away easily. The bottom of a cat carrier, a cardboard box, a corner. Position your cat and yourself in exactly the same position you were in at the vet. She's familiar with this, and so, now, are you. (I can only do fluids from one side.)

I find that if I continue to keep the tent up that I made to stick the needle into, there is less chance that the cat will feel discomfort because the needle is in an awkward place. Once there is a decent bubble of water, there is less of a chance that the needle is touching something. (I have on occasion scratched a shoulder blade.)

Tent using your four fingers. When you need your hand free to turn on and off the fluids, use your thumb to keep the needle in place. (I do this because I use a short needle.)

You only need your free hand to turn on and off the fluids. Other than that, you can use it to hold her down, or scratch a pleasure spot.

I find that if I put my right arm (the one holding the needle) along the cat's spine, the cat is less likely to move.

Were you second guessing yourself? Think of the fluid as liquid gold for your kitty (which it is). If you turn on the drip and you are not in, since you have the tent already in place, try quickly jabbing it back in the tent (unless you have super contaminated the needle).

 

[denice]

http://www.thecatsite.com/a/your-cat-s-kidneys-called   I don't know if you have seen this but part way down there is a video about giving sub-q fluids.  It's done by the vet that is doing the expert forum on kidney issues.  It has a bit of an introduction but then he shows how to give sub-q fluids.  It might help to kind of go along with the video.

 

[zoneout]

 
http://www.thecatsite.com/a/your-cat-s-kidneys-called   I don't know if you have seen this but part way down there is a video about giving sub-q fluids.  It's done by the vet that is doing the expert forum on kidney issues.  It has a bit of an introduction but then he shows how to give sub-q fluids.  It might help to kind of go along with the video.

Go watch this video.  It`s the BOMB!!!   Dr. Kris makes giving subQs entertaining.   I really thank Anne and TCS for sharing this with us.   The dude is a genius.

 

[wasabipea]

Thanks cocheezie. I tried to get everything "set up" as far as the air in the line, the twisty thing sort of in place  - I know exactly what you are talking about BTW with "twisty thing".

I get confused with what can be contaminated and how badly things can be contaiminated. Like last night. She was sitting there like a good girl, facing left which was perfect since I'm righty. The first time I "tented", I didn't feel that it was far back enough and big enough, I could see this when I put the needle down to her fur to start the insert. So the needle touched her fur, amd MAYBE her skin a bit (but not enough to be considered a poke). Since I had to relocate the tent, and the needle touched the fur, was that considered contaminated? I didn't want to take any chances, so I changed it. the second needle brushed against a towel that was on it's way to being called dirty... I was keeping it around for clean up. So I changed that needle. So she really only got really poked once. I think she was growing impatient with me acting like a blithering moron and feeling / acting completely ill-prepared. The fluid started dripping, so it was going in - but she was vocalizing, making unhappy noises so I got worried that I was in-between layers of skin (which my tech told me could happen, and I'd know because she would act like it was hurting her - that's how it appeared).

But she put an end to it by bolting and I was left with a nose, a needle squirting water all over my kitchen, and me wishing I had a cliff to swan dive off of. I was in such a tizzy. Lookig back it was kind of funny, but I can't say I'm looking forward to the next attempt. I think a more brightly lit area will help, it seemed fine until I started it all.

It sounds like you are used to doing this by yourself as well? I appreciate the tips. How much do you administer? Do you warm your fluid? I assume by putting the bag in hot water? And how contaminated is "too" contaminated (re: needle)?

She is so mad at me, and I'd be lying saying I'm all that thrilled with her at the moment... but we will try again. Thanks again for the cheerleading!

 

[keyshaj]

Congrats to those doing this.  We've been doing this to our IBD/CRF cat for some time.  A couple tips for those that would like them: Invest in an infrared thermometer (the kind you buy in the store to take temps from your forehead.)  This is to measure the temp of your bag of fluids.  NOW, using a pan, keeping the end connected to your line out of the water, run hot water on it until the bag hits about 99 degrees F.  It warms it enough to make it more comfortable for the cat.   Second, if you cool the needle, it helps too.  And last, may I suggest you buy Terumo needles.  They are sharper than other needles and come in thin wall (TW), and ultra-thin wall (UTW).  they cut the time you need to sit there almost in half.  And if you (and your cat) don't mind sitting there, you can use smaller needles.  The one inch length works best. 

Hope this helps those new to it. 

 

[cocheezie]

 
It sounds like you are used to doing this by yourself as well? I appreciate the tips. How much do you administer? Do you warm your fluid? I assume by putting the bag in hot water? And how contaminated is "too" contaminated (re: needle)?

I give roughly 100 ml. I can't see the fluid bag from where I'm sitting with the cat, so I just go by the lump. Yes, I warm the fluid in the bathroom sink. People have differing views on how contaminated is "too" contaminated. Some people will change the needle if it comes out. Some people will just stick it back in. (One vet actually told me I could use the same needle a couple of times - didn't follow that advice.)

Clip or shave a small spot in the area where you put the needle in. You will be able to see better. Then there will not be any doubt about whether the needle is in or not. I had the same problem at the beginning with both my cats, not being able to see with all that long black hair in the way.

If my partner isn't around, then I do it myself. His part only involves turning the fluids on and off.

I still think you are doing great.

 

[wasabipea]

 
Congrats to those doing this.  We've been doing this to our IBD/CRF cat for some time.  A couple tips for those that would like them: Invest in an infrared thermometer (the kind you buy in the store to take temps from your forehead.)  This is to measure the temp of your bag of fluids.  NOW, using a pan, keeping the end connected to your line out of the water, run hot water on it until the bag hits about 99 degrees F.  It warms it enough to make it more comfortable for the cat.   Second, if you cool the needle, it helps too.  And last, may I suggest you buy Terumo needles.  They are sharper than other needles and come in thin wall (TW), and ultra-thin wall (UTW).  they cut the time you need to sit there almost in half.  And if you (and your cat) don't mind sitting there, you can use smaller needles.  The one inch length works best.

Hope this helps those new to it.

Thanks you. Please excuse my ignorance, but what's the difference between the thin wall and ultra thin wall with actually giving the cat fluids? Is the ultra thin wall a quicker way to administer?

Right now I'm using an 18 guage needle (don't know the brand name) -- well actually I'm failing at using that needle. It's about 1.5 or 2" long.

Does cooling the needle help with insertion?

Thanks for the tips, any info to educate me is much appreciated.

 

[cocheezie]

1.5" seems awfully long. I started with 18G1 (the "1" is the length of the metal needle part). I think vets like to start people off with an 18 gauge needle because it won't take as long to get the fluids in. I switched to 20G1 because I thought that 18G was just too big for my little cat. I've recently switched to 22G3/4 which is a bit short and comes out on occasion, and it takes a bit longer to get the fluids in, but the cat doesn't mind it as much.

 

[wasabipea]

 
I give roughly 100 ml. I can't see the fluid bag from where I'm sitting with the cat, so I just go by the lump. Yes, I warm the fluid in the bathroom sink. People have differing views on how contaminated is "too" contaminated. Some people will change the needle if it comes out. Some people will just stick it back in. (One vet actually told me I could use the same needle a couple of times - didn't follow that advice.)

Clip or shave a small spot in the area where you put the needle in. You will be able to see better. Then there will not be any doubt about whether the needle is in or not. I had the same problem at the beginning with both my cats, not being able to see with all that long black hair in the way.

If my partner isn't around, then I do it myself. His part only involves turning the fluids on and off.

I still think you are doing great.

Thank you

she is a shorthair, but her fur is very fine - so the undercoat sometimes makes it difficult to see her skin. I'm also not sure when it is in far enough. When I succeeded in the vet's office it seemed like I felt it break thru the skin and knew. I didn't feel that list night - but I'll admit my hands were shaking a bit at that point.

He just does the on and off? I can handle that part I think - it's just keeping the cat settled and that tube is so long it's easily caught on something and the needle can pull out. I have to get a different setup.

Thanks again for the tips and vote of confidence, mine is waning. I guess I'll try again tonight and not take her into the vet, even though I'm getting the the point of leaving her at the vets and just walking out! "What really cute cat? I have no idea who this could be... honest" - Lol

Edited to add: cocheezie, what difference does the length of the needle make for administration - or is it jus the "keeping it IN the cat" part? I'm just estinating on the needle length, BTW... and one more - if you are giving your kitty 100 ml, does the 22 make that much of a difference in length of time? 18 does seem very big for Roni too.

 

[cocheezie]

Seems like we are cross-posting. lol.

 

[wasabipea]

 
Seems like we are cross-posting. lol.

Yup! I'm finished now

 

[cocheezie]

Check the packaging for the actual length of the needle. If it is indeed very long, I'd ask for a shorter needle, say a 1", so you could poke the whole thing or most of it in without worry.

Editing. I've never timed it. I didn't notice a difference between the 18G and the 20G. In fact, the 20G seemed faster. There is a definite time difference with the 22G. Maybe a couple of minutes at most, but the cat doesn't protest as much when I use a 22G.

 

[keyshaj]

Flow times for 100ml

Needle                  (Min:Sec)  

Monoject 18               1:17

Terumo 18                 0:53

Monoject 19 TW        1:10

Terumo 19 TW          1:16

Monoject 20               2:33

Terumo 20 UTW        1:59

Terumo 21 UTW        2:38

Monoject 22               6:15

Terumo 22 UTW        4:09

Terumo 23 UTW        7:09

Terumo 25 UTW      13:20

TW = Thin Wall    UTW = Ultra Thin Wall

For cats, the usual size needle is a 1" 20 gauge.  My vet says bigger needles than that hurt too much. 

http://www.zzcat.com/CRF/supplies/AboutNeedles.htm explains the needle size, wall size, and flow quite well.

Cooling the needle seems to help it not hurt so much.