I Can't Stop Stressing Out About Dog Food

[sabrinah]

I know they need to do a lot more research about the whole DCM thing and I probably shouldn't stress so much, but I can't help it. Finding a dog food that has no pork, at least 4.5% fiber but preferably 5%, grain-free, and costs less than $1/day to feed is difficult. If he doesn't have high enough fiber his anal glands get impacted; if he eats too many grains his coat and skin get dry, he chews on himself, and his poop isn't formed; and pork makes him itchy. I have a list of 492 grain-free foods with their cost per day, fiber %, dogfoodadvisor rating, and now I'm adding in which ingredient #'s are potatoes/legumes. Everything that has potatoes or legumes as the 2nd ingredient is automatically eliminated. But do I eliminate things that have potatoes or legumes as the 3rd ingredient? Many have them as ingredients # 3, 4, 5 and if I cut out ones with potatoes or legumes in the 3rd ingredient then they all have at least #4, 5, 6 and I'll have to use a fiber supplement with most of them. I'm almost tempted to try a grain inclusive food again but I don't really want to be cleaning up piles of stinky mush if he doesn't respond well.

I was feeding Zignature turkey but it sounds like the kangaroo formula may be one of the problem foods, so I think I'm going to take a break from the brand for a while. In the turkey formula ingredients # 3, 4, 5 are potatoes/legumes. In the kangaroo, ingredients # 3, 4, 5, 8, 9, 11 are all potatoes/legumes, so it's a pretty high amount. It's not the most I've found though.

Am I going crazy? I'm probably a little bit crazy. I know someone is going to tell me to stop stressing about it until more research comes out but I can't. Can't do it. I've been trying since the news first came out and it's just not happening. Do I cut things from the list that have potatoes/legumes as the 3rd ingredient? Do I take a chance on grains again?

The whole "talk to your vet" thing doesn't work so well around here. If it's not Science Diet or RC it's automatically trash.

 

[Furballsmom]

Hi!
No crazier than a number of us and cat food
I realize dogs and cats digestive systems are different, but still, I'm thinking that you might see some results if you did eliminate, --or looked for foods with less and further down in the list, --potatoes/legumes? ...and no grains, it sounds like it doesn't work all that well for him...

 

[sabrinah]

I haven't found any that have no legumes/potatoes. I'm sure something like ZiwiPeak probably doesn't have them but it's certainly over my $1/day budget. I can't decide what's worse, a food with one or two potato/legumes higher up in the list or a food with a handful farther down. The one with a handful farther down could end up with a total weight equivalent to the food with one or two higher up.

I haven't added the ingredient numbers to all 492 foods yet but I've done over 100 of them.

Health Extension Buffalo & Whitefish has legumes/potatoes as ingredients # 5, 6, 9, 11 and their Chicken & Turkey formula has them as #5, 6, 8
Wellness CORE Original has # 4, 5, 6 (would need fiber supplement and is at the top of the budget)
Wellness CORE Ocean whitefish has # 5, 6, 7, 8 (slightly over budget)
Tuscan Natural Carne Turkey # 5, 6 (needs fiber supplement, top of budget)
Simply Nourish Salmon High Protein #4, 6, 8
Rachael Ray Nutrish Zero Grain Turkey and Potato #4, 5, 6 (needs fiber)
Rachael Ray Nutrish Zero Grain Salmon & Sweet Potato #4, 5, 6, 11
Rachael Ray Nutrish Peak Northern Woodlands Turkey, Duck, Quail #4, 5, 6, 7, 16

I also started looking at grain-inclusive food just because I was curious. Some of it is ridiculous! American Journey Beef and Brown Rice, for example, has potatoes/legumes at #4, 5, 21 AND grains at #3, 6, 8, 9. Why on earth does there need to be both?!?!

 

[Furballsmom]

See, and that's the thing, surely they don't require that much but maybe there are vitamins and/or minerals they're getting more cheaply this way?

 

[daftcat75]

Do dogs need to be on grain-free? I know they should get the majority of their nutrition from meat. But I thought dog physiology is more forgiving of grains.

 

[neely]

I know there's been some discussion about DCM on the dog forum I belong to. I'll check what other members there have to say and if I have any helpful information I will definitely let you know.

 

[sabrinah]

See, and that's the thing, surely they don't require that much but maybe there are vitamins and/or minerals they're getting more cheaply this way?

I imagine that has to be the case, but how much money are they really saving? American Journey Beef and Sweet Potato is approximately $0.42/cup and has potatoes/legumes at #4, 5, 6, 10 while the Beef and Brown Rice is approximately $0.31/cup, still has potatoes/legumes at #4, 5, 21, and has added grains. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Do dogs need to be on grain-free? I know they should get the majority of their nutrition from meat. But I thought dog physiology is more forgiving of grains.

It is more forgiving but some dogs (like mine) just don't do well on grains. Dogs have adapted well but they haven't completely evolved for a grain-heavy (or potato-heavy) lifestyle. I wouldn't consider dogs true omnivores because their teeth and guts just aren't made for it. They're more like carnivores with a dash of omnivore. People like to use the fact that wolves eat plant matter from intestines and eat berries as proof that dogs are omnivores. If we thought of it that way then horses must be omnivores too because there's plenty of videos of horses chasing and eating live birds. You can even find cows eating birds and deer eating bones. I don't think anything completely sticks to what it's designed to eat. They eat what they need when they need it. If calcium-rich foliage is running low, it's good for a deer to nibble on bone but that doesn't mean bone needs to be a main part of their diet all the time.

I know there's been some discussion about DCM on the dog forum I belong to. I'll check what other members there have to say and if I have any helpful information I will definitely let you know.

Thank you!

 

[neely]

Ok, I just checked and the 'majority' of members on the dog forum I mentioned as well as their vets felt the study about DCM is unreliable.
One member sited this link: Please Stop Buying Your Pets Grain-Free Food

Another said it's not grain free food as much as it is the legumes in grain free. However, there's not enough information at this point to say grain free foods are causing DCM. This theory started because of 2 golden retrievers having heart issues which can be genetic in goldens. Then UC Davis claimed that they started seeing a pattern of DCM in dogs that were fed grain free.
UC Davis Investigates Link Between Dog Diets and Deadly Heart Disease

Update: FDA pet food ingredient and DCM investigation | PetfoodIndustry.com

Last but not least, Whole Dog Journal says not to panic about grain free food:
Please Don’t Panic About the “Grain-Free Thing” | Whole Dog Journal

Although there's much controversy on the subject of DCM I hope some of the above information is helpful for you.

 

[Willowy]

I think feeding a variety is good to prevent a deficiency/overdose of any one thing. Maybe pick 3 or 4 foods he can tolerate and rotate among those?

I know how hard it is; my first dog was allergic to EVERYTHING.

 

[sabrinah]

Ok, I just checked and the 'majority' of members on the dog forum I mentioned as well as their vets felt the study about DCM is unreliable.
One member sited this link: Please Stop Buying Your Pets Grain-Free Food

Another said it's not grain free food as much as it is the legumes in grain free. However, there's not enough information at this point to say grain free foods are causing DCM. This theory started because of 2 golden retrievers having heart issues which can be genetic in goldens. Then UC Davis claimed that they started seeing a pattern of DCM in dogs that were fed grain free.
UC Davis Investigates Link Between Dog Diets and Deadly Heart Disease

Update: FDA pet food ingredient and DCM investigation | PetfoodIndustry.com

Last but not least, Whole Dog Journal says not to panic about grain free food:
Please Don’t Panic About the “Grain-Free Thing” | Whole Dog Journal

Although there's much controversy on the subject of DCM I hope some of the above information is helpful for you.

Thank you for the links! Since I can't switch off grain-free without dealing with cow-patty type poop and a destroyed coat I guess I'll just try to find foods with legumes as far down as possible. I'm assuming something with legumes as #4, 5, 6 wouldn't be any better or worse than something with just one listed at #3? Not that the ones with just one potato/legume listed are within the budget, but they might go on sale at some point.

I think feeding a variety is good to prevent a deficiency/overdose of any one thing. Maybe pick 3 or 4 foods he can tolerate and rotatd among those?

I know how hard it is; my first dog was allergic to EVERYTHING.

A rotation is my plan. One big bag lasts him 2 months so it's a pretty slow rotation. I think Health Extension is going to end up in the rotation because so far it's the only one in my budget with potatoes/legumes not starting until 5 and it has enough fiber. I might add in foods with low fiber and just supplement with Firm Up if my list of acceptable foods is super short. I got a bag of Instinct from Drs. Foster and Smith when they had their 40% off sale a while ago. He's at the point of the switch where I think it's mostly Instinct now, and he had an irritated tushy today I'm hoping it's just from holding it too much because he doesn't want to go out in the rain and hail to potty. If he can't tolerate something in Instinct then I have to try and figure out what the ingredient is and it'll cut the food options in half again.

 

[sabrinah]

I didn't know alfalfa is a legume so that's yet another one I have to look for now! I'm also not sure how much I should care about tapioca.

Does anyone feel like looking at dog food ingredients and giving me their thoughts? These are some of the main ones I'm considering in the new rotation. His current food is included for reference. I bolded the potatoes/legumes and underlined added taurine (it's only in Petcurean Go!).

Current food: Zignature Turkey
Cost: $0.77/day Fiber: 6%
Turkey, Turkey Meal, Chickpeas, Peas, Pea Protein, Sunflower Oil (preserved with Citric Acid), Flaxseed, Natural Flavors, Dicalcium Phosphate, Dried Beet Pulp, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Minerals (Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Cobalt Proteinate, Selenium Yeast), Choline Chloride, Vitamins (Vitamin A, Vitamin D3, Vitamin E, Niacin, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12), Lactic Acid, Blueberries, Carrots, Cranberries, Calcium Iodate, Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols.

Petcurean GO! Fit & Free
Cost: $0.97/day Fiber: 3%- a lot of Firm Up required
Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Salmon Meal, De-Boned Chicken, De-Boned Turkey, De-Boned Trout, Potatoes, Peas, Tapioca, Lentil Beans, Chickpeas, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Natural Chicken Flavour, Whole Dried Egg, Apples, Duck Meal, Herring Meal, Salmon Oil, Alfalfa, De-Boned Duck, De-Boned Salmon, Sweet Potatoes, Canola Oil (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Coconut Oil (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Flaxseed, Potassium Chloride, Pumpkin, Carrots, Bananas, Blueberries, Cranberries, Broccoli, Spinach, Alfalfa Sprouts, Blackberries, Squash, Papayas, Pomegranate, Dried Chicory Root, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Niger Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Product, Vitamins (Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Inositol, Niacin, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (a Source of Vitamin C), D-Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Beta-Carotene, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement), Minerals (Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Zinc Oxide, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Sulphate, Ferrous Sulphate, Calcium Iodate, Manganous Oxide, Selenium Yeast), Sodium Chloride, Taurine, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Dried Rosemary, Green Tea Extract, Peppermint, Parsley, Rosehips, Zedoary, Dandelion, Chamomile, Ginger, Fennel, Tumeric, Juniper Berries, Licorice, Marigold Extract, Cardamom, Cloves.

Health Extension Buffalo & Whitefish
Cost: $1/day Fiber: 5%
Buffalo, Deboned Whitefish, Buffalo Meal, Whitefish Meal (Source Of Omega 3 Fatty Acids), Chickpeas, Lentils, Salmon Oil (Preserved With Mixed Tocopherols), Tapioca Starch, Whole Sweet Potatoes, Pumpkin, Peas, Coconut Oil (Preserved With Mixed Tocopherols), Whole Carrots, Dried Seaweed Meal, Pomegranate, Blackberries, Whole Blueberries, Whole Cranberries, Raspberries, Potassium Chloride, Spinach, Turmeric, Tomato, Beets, Parsley, Chicory Root Extract, Sage, Bovine Colostrum, Organic Apple Cider Vinegar, Ginger, Green Tea Extract, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin E Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Choline Chloride, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Inositol, Organic Dehydrated Kelp, Zinc Polysaccharide Complex, Iron Polysaccharide Complex, Manganese Polysaccharide Complex, Copper Polysaccharide Complex, Cobalt Polysaccharide Complex, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Pectin, Dried Lactobacilus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus Licheniformis Fermentation Product, Dried Baciollus Coagulans Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Niger Fermentation Product.

Health Extension Chicken & Turkey
Cost: $1/day Fiber: 5%
Organic Deboned Chicken, Chicken Meal, Deboned Turkey, Turkey Meal, Potatoes, Chickpeas, Chicken Fat (Preserved With Mixed Tocopherols), Whole Sweet Potatoes, Pumpkin, Coconut Oil (Preserved With Mixed Tocopherols), Whole Carrots, Dried Seaweed Meal, Pomegranate, Blackberries, Whole Blueberries, Whole Cranberries, Raspberries, Potassium Chloride, Spinach, Turmeric, Tomato, Beets, Parsley, Chicory Root Extract, Sage, Bovine Colostrum, Organic Apple Cider Vinegar, Ginger, Green Tea Extract, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin E Supplement, Riboavin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Choline Chloride, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Inositol, Organic Dehydrated Kelp, Zinc Polysaccharide Complex, Iron Polysaccharide Complex, Manganese Polysaccharide Complex, Copper Polysaccharide Complex, Cobalt Polysaccharide Complex, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Pectin, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus Licheniformis Fermentation Product, Dried Baciollus Coagulans Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Niger Fermentation Product.

Wellness CORE Original
Cost: $0.99/day Fiber: 4%- a little Firm Up required
Organic Deboned Chicken, Chicken Meal, Deboned Turkey, Turkey Meal, Potatoes, Chickpeas, Chicken Fat (Preserved With Mixed Tocopherols), Whole Sweet Potatoes, Pumpkin, Coconut Oil (Preserved With Mixed Tocopherols), Whole Carrots, Dried Seaweed Meal, Pomegranate, Blackberries, Whole Blueberries, Whole Cranberries, Raspberries, Potassium Chloride, Spinach, Turmeric, Tomato, Beets, Parsley, Chicory Root Extract, Sage, Bovine Colostrum, Organic Apple Cider Vinegar, Ginger, Green Tea Extract, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin E Supplement, Riboavin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Choline Chloride, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Inositol, Organic Dehydrated Kelp, Zinc Polysaccharide Complex, Iron Polysaccharide Complex, Manganese Polysaccharide Complex, Copper Polysaccharide Complex, Cobalt Polysaccharide Complex, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Pectin, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus Licheniformis Fermentation Product, Dried Baciollus Coagulans Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Niger Fermentation Product.

American Journey Chicken & Sweet Potato
Cost: $0.74/day Fiber: 5%
Deboned Chicken, Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Peas, Sweet Potatoes, Chickpeas, Pea Protein, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Dried Plain Beet Pulp, Natural Flavor, Flaxseed, Menhaden Fish Meal, Salmon Oil, Blueberries, Carrots, Salt, Dried Kelp, Fructooligosaccharides, Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Mixed Tocopherols (Preservative), Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Iron Proteinate, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Niacin Supplement, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Chloride, Sodium Selenite, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Copper Proteinate, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Manganese Sulfate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Manganese Proteinate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Calcium Iodate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Dried Bacillus coagulans Fermentation Product, Rosemary Extract.

Canidae Pure Sky Duck
Cost: $0.90/day Fiber: 4%- A little Firm Up required.
Duck, Duck Meal, Turkey Meal, Sweet Potatoes, Peas, Chicken Fat, Potatoes, Sun-cured Alfalfa, Natural Flavor, Minerals (Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Iodide, Manganese Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite), Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid), Choline Chloride, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Plantarum Fermentation Product, Dried Trichoderma Longibrachiatum Fermentation Extract, Mixed Tocopherols (A Natural Source of Vitamin E).