HT whole rabbit grinds

missmimz

TCS Member
Thread starter
Top Cat
Joined
Jan 11, 2015
Messages
2,305
Purraise
365
Location
Arizona
For the whole ground rabbit from HT, should I supplement with just taurine or can I use alnutrin for bone and meat? HT site doesn't say anything about the grind containing thyroid, just liver, pancreas, kidney, brains, spleen, but I don't want to over-supplement. 

Thanks. 
 

dorimon

TCS Member
Alpha Cat
Joined
Mar 18, 2016
Messages
529
Purraise
98
Location
Maryland, United States
If you look at the product information:
This is the ENTIRE rabbit, including the FUR. The stomach and intestine are removed. Fine ground.

It is ground whole so your pet will have the added benefit of insoluble fiber added to the diet.

Meat/Bone/Organ ratio: Note, heart and lung is considered a muscle meat for feeding purposes

80% meat 10% bone 10% organ [liver, pancreas, kidney, brains, spleen]

This food is low in Sodium. It is also a good source of Vitamin B6 and Phosphorus, and a very good source of Protein, Niacin, Vitamin B12 and Selenium.
(https://hare-today.com/product/raw_pet_food/whole_carcass_ground_rabbit_fur_and_all_5_lb_fine_ground)
 

sophie1

TCS Member
Alpha Cat
Joined
Aug 16, 2013
Messages
595
Purraise
190
I supplement according to Dr. Pierson's recipe, omitting the lite salt.  If you use Alnutrin you'll have to use the version for meat/bone/organ and realize you're probably over-supplementing.  Shouldn't be a problem if you are only feeding this as part of your rotation.

Highly recommend the DIY method though.  It's really easy not to mention cheaper and frankly more convenient to replenish supplies.  You only need taurine, vitamin B and E for the rabbit grind, and you can get those at your local grocery.  Adding the egg is optional.  I put in 1 extra large egg per 2# and I just throw the whole thing in there because I don't have patience for separating out the yolk.

Note that you should be supplementing fish oil anyway as it's not included in the Alnutrin mix.  This is my main issue with Alnutrin:  it is only marginally more convenient than the DIY supplementation method, because it replaces opening a few capsules of powder and cracking an egg, and yet the price is more than double the DIY method, depending on how much you pay for eggs.
 

abby2932

TCS Member
Alpha Cat
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
Messages
590
Purraise
321
Location
New Orleans, LA
 
I supplement according to Dr. Pierson's recipe, omitting the lite salt.  If you use Alnutrin you'll have to use the version for meat/bone/organ and realize you're probably over-supplementing.  Shouldn't be a problem if you are only feeding this as part of your rotation.
^ this is exactly what I was going to say 


Since the rabbit is ground with the head on and they thyroid gland is included (according to Tracy at HT) then you wouldn't necessarily need the extra iodized salt that is included in the Alnutrin. However, as long as this part of a rotational diet and is not literally the only thing you are feeding, I wouldn't think that it would have major long term ramifications if it was oversupplemented slightly. For the past 2 years, I used Alnutrin with every grind (including rabbit) and my cats are fine. I just recently switched to following a supplement recipe instead of using a premix and it is just as easy.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5

missmimz

TCS Member
Thread starter
Top Cat
Joined
Jan 11, 2015
Messages
2,305
Purraise
365
Location
Arizona
 
I supplement according to Dr. Pierson's recipe, omitting the lite salt.  If you use Alnutrin you'll have to use the version for meat/bone/organ and realize you're probably over-supplementing.  Shouldn't be a problem if you are only feeding this as part of your rotation.

Highly recommend the DIY method though.  It's really easy not to mention cheaper and frankly more convenient to replenish supplies.  You only need taurine, vitamin B and E for the rabbit grind, and you can get those at your local grocery.  Adding the egg is optional.  I put in 1 extra large egg per 2# and I just throw the whole thing in there because I don't have patience for separating out the yolk.

Note that you should be supplementing fish oil anyway as it's not included in the Alnutrin mix.  This is my main issue with Alnutrin:  it is only marginally more convenient than the DIY supplementation method, because it replaces opening a few capsules of powder and cracking an egg, and yet the price is more than double the DIY method, depending on how much you pay for eggs.
Honestly, I cut corners wherever I can when it comes to making food because I'm feeding 10 cats, which means I'm making food a really often. Alnutrin is manufactured very close to me, so I get it within a day every time I order. Mostly, I never looked into buying supplements because Alnutrin is just really convenient. I couldn't ever find a good breakdown for how much of each supplement you need for 1lbs of meat. I think I'd like to use my own supplements at least for my older cat that doesn't eat bone, but I make him small 1-2lbs batches. 

I probably wont use it for this particular grind because I don't want to over supplement so I'll just get the taurine and B & E. I don't use any other whole grinds, but I thought I'd try the rabbit one because they seem a bit bored with the regular meat/bones/organs and its got such high reviews from other users. 
 
Last edited:
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6

missmimz

TCS Member
Thread starter
Top Cat
Joined
Jan 11, 2015
Messages
2,305
Purraise
365
Location
Arizona
 
^ this is exactly what I was going to say 


Since the rabbit is ground with the head on and they thyroid gland is included (according to Tracy at HT) then you wouldn't necessarily need the extra iodized salt that is included in the Alnutrin. However, as long as this part of a rotational diet and is not literally the only thing you are feeding, I wouldn't think that it would have major long term ramifications if it was oversupplemented slightly. For the past 2 years, I used Alnutrin with every grind (including rabbit) and my cats are fine. I just recently switched to following a supplement recipe instead of using a premix and it is just as easy.
I wasn't sure if it actually included the thyroid because it isn't actually listed with the other organs. 
 

micknsnicks2mom

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Feb 15, 2014
Messages
11,571
Purraise
5,216
Location
...with the cats...
 
I already know this. But it isn't clear whether it includes thyroid, which is the bigger issue. According to other users it does include the thyroid. 
i emailed tracy (HT) yesterday evening, and received a reply today. here's what tracy has to say...

'Product descriptions are listed on the details tab if you click on the name.

You can use the Alnutrin for all ground meat/bone organ [the ones with out calcium] or the Alnutrin with calcium for the boneless meats and organs.

Thyroid gland is ground with rabbit.

Tracy

www.hare-today.com'
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10

missmimz

TCS Member
Thread starter
Top Cat
Joined
Jan 11, 2015
Messages
2,305
Purraise
365
Location
Arizona
 
i emailed tracy (HT) yesterday evening, and received a reply today. here's what tracy has to say...

'Product descriptions are listed on the details tab if you click on the name.

You can use the Alnutrin for all ground meat/bone organ [the ones with out calcium] or the Alnutrin with calcium for the boneless meats and organs.

Thyroid gland is ground with rabbit.

Tracy

www.hare-today.com'
Thanks :) 
 

maureen brad

TCS Member
Super Cat
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
957
Purraise
363
Location
San Jose, CA
I had not even thought about thyroid in the ground fur and all rabbit I get from HT. God, I feel awful, I feed my cats a lot of this. I have 10 lbs of it made up in the freezer right now. I supplement with Alnutrin and now am so worried about having over supplemented...I may just throw all the rabbit away. I will try making my own supplement mix as I still have 2 5lbs chubs of this rabbit in waiting. I thank you all for posting about this. It is something I should have thought of before.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #12

missmimz

TCS Member
Thread starter
Top Cat
Joined
Jan 11, 2015
Messages
2,305
Purraise
365
Location
Arizona
Does anyone know how much taurine I should add per pound of meat? I can't seem to find the breakdown anywhere and since this is new food I don't want to make a huge batch. It seems like it should be something like 1300-1500mg for 2lbs? This is mostly why I don't use my own supplements. All the recipes are designed for huge batches. 
 

abby2932

TCS Member
Alpha Cat
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
Messages
590
Purraise
321
Location
New Orleans, LA
I like to use 1,000mg per pound of meat but that might be a bit excessive so your approximation of 1300-1500 for 2lbs seems accurate.

- The catinfo.org recipe uses 2,500mg for 3lbs of meat = 833mg per pound

- The feline-nutrition.org recipe uses 6,000mg (if you don't use hearts) for 6lbs of meat = 1,000mg per pound
 
Last edited:

sophie1

TCS Member
Alpha Cat
Joined
Aug 16, 2013
Messages
595
Purraise
190
10 cats!!!  Wow that is a lot of food.  Totally understand about the Alnutrin. For large batches you're definitely going to spending a lot of time opening capsules with the DIY method - that's the most annoying part of it.  You could try getting loose taurine and larger quantities of the B and E - you can get 200 mg instead of 50mg of the B, and 800 IU vit E.   Maybe there are other ways to mix up supplements and I might experiment next time I make food.  Like,  simply soak them in water, which is what I do for fish oil, and let the capsules dissolve on their own.  Or throw them into a clean coffee grinder.

Maureen - it pains me to think of you throwing out 10# of rabbit food!  Over-supplementing iodine is a theoretical problem only, and there is a large tolerable range for humans so I assume the same should be true for healthy cats.  Think about how you use iodine pills to disinfect water on camping trips, for example.  AAFCO doesn't list a maximum for cats, only a minimum.  We're probably being over-cautious here, mainly because we do know that thyroid disease is common in cats.  However we don't know that this has anything to do with iodine, in fact I kinda doubt it.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #15

missmimz

TCS Member
Thread starter
Top Cat
Joined
Jan 11, 2015
Messages
2,305
Purraise
365
Location
Arizona
 
10 cats!!!  Wow that is a lot of food.  Totally understand about the Alnutrin. For large batches you're definitely going to spending a lot of time opening capsules with the DIY method - that's the most annoying part of it.  You could try getting loose taurine and larger quantities of the B and E - you can get 200 mg instead of 50mg of the B, and 800 IU vit E.   Maybe there are other ways to mix up supplements and I might experiment next time I make food.  Like,  simply soak them in water, which is what I do for fish oil, and let the capsules dissolve on their own.  Or throw them into a clean coffee grinder.
For as many cats as I have actually don't make large batches of food because I feed a huge variety. Including pre-made raw like Rad Cat and I have some cats that are picker than others. I just don't have enough freezer space for meat plus a lot of pre made food, even though have a dedicated chest freezer for pet food. I think for this whole ground rabbit I'm just going to add taurine and omegas. I typically mix proteins when i serve the food anyway, so its not going to be a huge part of their diet. But I know rabbit is low in taurine so I don't want to skip out on that. I def don't want to use the alnutrin because I just went through i-131 for my oldest cat for hyperthyroidism so I don't want to over supplement iodine. 

Thanks for the help. 
 

maureen brad

TCS Member
Super Cat
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
957
Purraise
363
Location
San Jose, CA
Sophie1- Thanks for the reassurance. I just would hate to think I have been causing harm to my cats.The three of them seem fine. I have decided not to throw out the big batch of rabbit I have already made. In the future I will mix my own supplements for the rabbit minus the iodine.

I just got such great news. My youngest son started working at a pet food store a couple weeks ago , this store sells Rad Cat AND as a perk, he and his family can get Raw Food at that store for Cost! Oh my gosh!!! I am so excited, I have wanted to feed the Rad Cat Venison to my cats on a regular basis but just couldn't afford it , but, now I can. Yay!!!!

I will always make my own but it is great to have diversity in my rotation.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #17

missmimz

TCS Member
Thread starter
Top Cat
Joined
Jan 11, 2015
Messages
2,305
Purraise
365
Location
Arizona
 
\

I just got such great news. My youngest son started working at a pet food store a couple weeks ago , this store sells Rad Cat AND as a perk, he and his family can get Raw Food at that store for Cost! Oh my gosh!!! I am so excited, I have wanted to feed the Rad Cat Venison to my cats on a regular basis but just couldn't afford it , but, now I can. Yay!!!!

I will always make my own but it is great to have diversity in my rotation.
Oh man, I'm jealous. Mine LOVE the RC venison. I wish I could feed RC exclusively but there's only 1 store anywhere near me that sells it and they charge $22 (not including tax) for a 24 ounce container of the venison 


I actually just ordered several containers from ONP because even with shipping its cheaper than buying locally. Sigh. I guess when I'm old and poor at least I'll know my cats were happy 
 

sophie1

TCS Member
Alpha Cat
Joined
Aug 16, 2013
Messages
595
Purraise
190
Maureen that is a major score.   My cats love Rad Cat too, but I don't even spend that much on my own food!  I got venison chunks with my last HT order and haven't tried them on my cats yet...hope they like it.  They've eaten venison before and liked it, but that was quite a while ago. 

I hear you on variety.  I like to have 5 proteins in regular rotation, plus occasional extras like the ground cavies and pheasant.  Those were both very well received.  Quail, not so much.
 

maureen brad

TCS Member
Super Cat
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
957
Purraise
363
Location
San Jose, CA
Sophie1- I bet your cats will love the HT venison chunks. I used to serve them along with rabbit organs as a treat for my cats - they love it I got Rad cat Venison only once before and my cats love it.I am soooo thrilled about the steep discounts courtesy of my sons employer. I will now get two large venison and a bag of Stelly and Chewy's freeze dried . I am not sure what it will cost but, if I am going to be charged just the stores cost I know the saving will be great. I am just going with RC Venison because I get turkey & chicken from  HT , I like to prepare those with Turkey gizzards so they nice chewy chunks.Rabbit is their favorite however, the only thing I ever fed them that they hated was Lamb. - Let me know how your cats like the venison chunks.
 
Top