Howling, especially at night

Willowwombat

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Thanks to al of you who reassured me on my thread below about dude and Willow and how the integration is going. We have peace, except for feeding times and we'll have to work on that.

We do have one additional issue with Dude. He yowls a lot. The SPCA didn't mention it, and I can't imagine he lived in a small apartment for nine years without the neighbours complaining, so I think it might be a newer behaviour, but it is an issue at night.

Basically, Dude howls very loudly when he wants something. It seems more play-oriented than anything else. He is far more rambunctious than the SPCA thought he was, based on what his previous family told them, and he was at the SPCA for along time. He races around the house howling, which is sort of cute during the day and our Willow does it too, though to a lesser degree, but if he doesn't get his way with attention and play he keeps on doing it. And he does it at night, which is a HUGE problem for me because if he wakes me up I won't go back to sleep, and since I'm a full-time caregiver to my partner I cannot have that.

I'm obviously going to have to give him a good play session in the evenings, which is fine, since that's when Willow likes to lie around having lap time with my partner so there won't be any jealousy. But even so, he howls early in the morning, like 4 am..

I don't know if the howling is boredom, or stress at being in a new place, or he's hungry, but it has to stop.

I can't leave food out for him because food is the one issue the two cats will fight about. Even one piece of dry food can cause a hissy fit. Eventually I'll be shutting him out of my room at night (Willow is not allowed to sleep in my room, either) but since I can't trust them on their own just yet I don't want to do that now.

I try to ignore it as much as I can and reward him with play when he isn't yowling. With my other cat, if she bugs me in the night I hiss at her, which generally gets the message across, and I'll try that with him, too.

I don't really know what else to do. Are there any training methods to deal with this?
 

FetchingCat

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When we first got our tabby, he had the most obnoxious, LOUD, loooooong meow/yowl. I wanted to give him back, haha. He would have been great at cat opera. He really held that grating note.

Our snowshoe has a sweet, chirrupy meow/trill and he's fairly bossy and chatty. I also happen to be a pushover. Tabby started mimicking Snowshoe's cute polite meows at some point. I don't think I treat them any differently, but maybe Tabby picked up on me being more responsive to Snowshoe, or thought he'd try it out. Sometimes Snowshoe yells at the top of his lungs as if doing his best tabby impression. Not suggesting that you dote more on the cat with the nicer voice, but cats seem to learn from each other.

Tabby still likes to play fetch at 1 am, and he announces this by meowing and warbling at full volume. I think a vigorous play time before bed and a motion activated/timed automatic toy will have to be the solution. I also leave plenty of food out before going to bed. Try feeding them supervised before bedtime?
 
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Willowwombat

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Your description of the chirpy meow/trill is exactly it, only he's LOUD. And persistent. I've not heard of motion-activated toys but I'll see what I can find.

I'm also hoping that he's so rambunctious right now because he's just plain joyful. He's never had so much room to run around in his life (spent his whole life in one-bedroom apartment), he's been cooped up at the SPCA on and off all summer (long story -- at one point his people lived with two cats in a tent during the summer), and he's all of a sudden realized that his new humans are really fun and good and aren't going to eat him.
 

vince

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Does Dude yowl directly at you or only when you're out of sight? I have one that yowls at me (not as much as yours, though) day or night when he doesn't know where I am. I meow back to him, and that reassures him.

As far as the feeding issues go, do you think you could use a feeder that responds to a chip on a tag you can put on their collars, or would fights still erupt?

The late-evening vigorous play session, followed by the last meal of the day should help Dude to sleep through the night. It mimics cats' normal dusk activities of catch-kill-eat-sleep.
 
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Willowwombat

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He howls when I'm not in sight.

I fed them both a ton of food later in the evening and shut my door and wasn't awakened by a long opera about abandoned cats starving in the woods, so that obviously helped.
 
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Willowwombat

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I wasn't previously aware of those microchip feeders. What great idea. They are both SPCA cats, so they're both chipped. I'll go down that route if all else fails.
 

Lucy&Petra

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Our Petra did that for several weeks when we first got her. The more we ignored it, the less she did it. Now she rarely does it. You're in a battle of wills at this point. Good luck to you! lol
 
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Willowwombat

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Yes, I'm ignoring him right now. And I did last night. When he was quiet I started to play with him.

I also think he was just plain hungry. He didn't eat very much up till now and I just assumed he was a small eater -- he's not a big cat -- but yesterday his appetite came roaring back and he ate a huge bowl of food.
 

vince

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I don't think the chip-controlled feeders respond to the cats' ID chips. Rather, I believe they respond to a collar tag with a chip in it. I have considered using one for my cats, but haven't done so yet.

My cats are scarf-n-barfers and can't be left to free-feed, which is why I was thinking about getting one of the automatic feeders. I have problems with the two older ones pushing the young one aside and eating her food. I don't know if the automatic unit would discourage that or not.

If I'm mistaken as to the operation of the chip-controlled feeders, please let me know.
 
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Willowwombat

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I haven't actually looked for any yet, so I'm in the dark, too. If it involves a collar, I'm out. I had one cat get her paw caught in her collar once and really hurt herself trying to untangle.

He does seem to be howling less the more I feed him. He was surrendered (or perhaps apprehended) because his family had fallen on hard times and had nowhere to live -- they had their two cats in a tent at one point. He's had a really rough go, poor little guy. I suspect that he's a bit underfed. He certainly tucks in now that he trusts us.
 
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Willowwombat

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We've established that the howling is not related to food, and I don't think it's anxiety, since he seems pretty confident these days.

I've decided the he developed this bad habit with his previous owners, who lived in an apartment. I suspect he learned that his piercing yowl would get immediate attention so as not to disturb the neighbours.

The howling only happens when he is downstairs and we are upstairs. I think it mean he wants one of us to go downstairs and play with him. It seems to me that it's accompanies by lots of activity.

We're ignoring it as much as we can, and I've added the incentive not to ever play with him downstairs, only upstairs.

Has anyone got any other ideas? Honestly, he can keep this up for hours on an off, and it's getting on our nerves. We love the little guy, but this is a but much.
 

moxiewild

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Sounds like kitty needs a vet appointment and a full senior panel.

At his age, and based on the behaviors you describe, you could be looking at hyperthyroidism.

Best to rule out medical causes first before addressing things behaviorally.
 

moxiewild

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I don't think the chip-controlled feeders respond to the cats' ID chips. Rather, I believe they respond to a collar tag with a chip in it. I have considered using one for my cats, but haven't done so yet.

My cats are scarf-n-barfers and can't be left to free-feed, which is why I was thinking about getting one of the automatic feeders. I have problems with the two older ones pushing the young one aside and eating her food. I don't know if the automatic unit would discourage that or not.

If I'm mistaken as to the operation of the chip-controlled feeders, please let me know.
We have multiple of these feeders. They can work with a tag you put on a collar, or you can program to scan for the microchip (no collar necessary).
 
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Willowwombat

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Moxiewild, I got him from the SPCA and he has had a checkup already. I think he has had blood panels, but I'm not sure.

I had thought of hyperthyroidism, though, and when I take him in for our free visit to the vet next week I'll ask about that. Our last cat was hyperthyroid and had a thyroidectomy, which resolved the issue for many years before she needed medication. He does seem a bit overactive for a nine-year-old cat, but that might simply be happiness at being in a big house with a gazillion windows, good food, and lots of play time.
 
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Willowwombat

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I should add that when our Rachel was first showing signs of hyperthyroidism, she became very thin no matter what she ate. Dude is not under weight. Anyway, I will ask about that when we see the vet next week.
 

moxiewild

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Moxiewild, I got him from the SPCA and he has had a checkup already. I think he has had blood panels, but I'm not sure.

I had thought of hyperthyroidism, though, and when I take him in for our free visit to the vet next week I'll ask about that. Our last cat was hyperthyroid and had a thyroidectomy, which resolved the issue for many years before she needed medication. He does seem a bit overactive for a nine-year-old cat, but that might simply be happiness at being in a big house with a gazillion windows, good food, and lots of play time.
Typically when seen by a vet with a rescue or shelter, the vets just look over the animal (any wounds, external parasites, hair loss, masses, abscesses, etc) and take vitals.

They don’t usually do CBC panel, urinalysis or other things that senior animals typically really need twice a year.

How is her drinking and urination?

I rescue seniors and we see HyperT cats a lot! Trust me, it can present in many ways!

Many cats don’t lose weight until it’s progressed to a certain point. We’ve even had a couple cats show absolutely no signs - low activity, general disinterest in or lack of enthusiasm about food, no weight loss, no vocalizing, good coat condition, seemingly normal water intake/urine output etc.

And that’s even with advanced hyperT too! One of them only got diagnosed because her heart became so affected that she began developing fluid in her chest!

They have a lot better options for hyperT meds and treatments now if that ends up being the case.

Keep us posted, and good luck!
 
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Willowwombat

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Dude is eating well but not what I would call excessively, and both he and my Willow drink lots of water because I have a fountain for them.

I've also noticed that he shouts when he's about to use the litter box. We're quite used to this as my Willow used to do that whenever we gave her a fish-based food. Once we stopped giving her any food with fish in it, the litterbox shouting stopped. Her digestive system just can't handle fish.

So it's possible that we're looking at a similar thing here, too. I have no idea what he's been fed over the years. When we first got Dude he would eat anything we put in front of him, but he seems to be asserting his own taste on the food situation now. This is actually a good thing because I have to put Willow on a diet, and if I feed Dude something she doesn't like, and vice-versa, we won't have any trouble.

Anyway, he has a vet appointment next week, so I'll ask for him to have a blood test.

Of course I'll get blamed for the whole scary thing, and he'll be afraid of me all over again, for days!
 
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Willowwombat

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I'm beginning to think that the hyperthyroidism is a distinct possibility.

The more comfortable Dude is here in his new home, the more hyper he is. He is a loving, sweet little cat, but when he's awake and not getting loves from one of us, he constantly paces or runs around the house meowing. He can't sit still. I play with him every evening, running him up and down the stairs and around and around the house to tire him, but in a few minutes he's at it again. The meowing is pretty annoying, because once he starts it will go on for fifteen minutes, and it isn't a nice mellow meow like my Willow's, it's a high-pitched yelp with a chirp at the end..

The SPCA had him for several weeks over the summer on an emergency basis, and housed him with his sister cat in a large separate room, before he was finally surrendered to them four weeks ago, and their assessment of him was that he is a lazy old cat who couldn't be roused to play, so it still might be anxiety, or he's calling for his previous owners, or his previous sister cat. He started doing it last night outside my bedroom door just after I went to bed.
 

moxiewild

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Sometimes that’s not enough time to evaluate a cat.

Other times, they’re just not acting like themselves because of the situation they’re in.

And sometimes, shelter staff/volunteers and just don’t know how to recognize the signs of illness (or a particular illness).

It can even be a combination of these things too, unfortunately.

Were you able to have him checked out by a vet?
 
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Willowwombat

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Yes. The vet said that Dude is healthy, except for some scale on his teeth.

The howling has reduced a lot. It seems to me that he mostly howls when he's lonely. Now that he has more confidence around here, and trusts us more, he'll come upstairs and hang out with us if I call him when he howls. He also sometimes howls when he wants to play, which I don't reward.

He has a new obsession -- sitting on our front balcony, which looks out over the beach and ocean (we live in the Pacific Northwest). There's always something interesting going on out there, and sometimes it's impossible to get him to come in, even if it's pouring rain and windy. That, too, has helped with the howling because his little brain is fully occupied for hours a day out there.
 
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