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How To Supplement Raw Food

Discussion in 'Raw & Home-Cooked Cat Food' started by huxleysmom, May 15, 2017.

  1. huxleysmom

    huxleysmom Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    After weeks and weeks of trying (and failing) to find commercial food that Huxley is able to tolerate, I am finally ready to try a raw diet for him. Since I am a complete novice at this, I thought starting with commercial raw food would be easier. I have decided to start with Bravo pork, one of the few meats he is not allergic to, and seems to like. My question is, how do I supplement it? I have looked into Alnutrin, and it seems good to me, but it has eggs in it. Since he is allergic to chicken, I am not sure if I should use eggs, at least to start with.
    So I was wondering if I could make my own supplement. The problem is I just cannot seem to find a simple recipe online.
    Can anyone recommend a recipe for 1lb of meat/bone/organ mix that doesn't include egg?
    I know that adding Omega 3s is also important, but I need to avoid fish oil and flaxseed because of allergies. I hear Canola oil is a potential replacement. How much should I use?
    I know that Huxley might be totally fine with those ingredients, but I would rather avoid them altogether to start with, at least until all of his allergy symptoms have disappeared. I'll then try to add them one at a time, starting with the one thing he has tested negative for (eggs) and see how he reacts.

    Thank you for your help!
     

  2. paiger8

    paiger8 TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    I wouldn't start with something you have to supplement. Honestly, there's a learning curve when it comes to raw feeding, and supplementing a commercial food would be a pain. Might as well make your own at that point. Bravo has veggies in it too... which are really unnecessary and can be harmful if your cat has food sensitivities. The pork flavor has bok choy, acorn squash, and romaine lettuce. This is cat food, not a salad.

    Rad Cat IMO is the best commercial raw food out there. And it's well liked by cats. It does contain egg, but generally cats that are allergic to chicken are fine with eggs. It's a completely separate protein. How do you know your cat is allergic to chicken? Many cats display sensitivities to a protein when it's in kibble or canned, but are fine with raw. The allergy usually has to do with processing and additives used in the food, and not the actual protein.

    If you want to make your own, and aren't sure about supplementing, EZ Complete is highly recommended. You just mix boneless meat, EZ Complete, and water.
     

  3. huxleysmom

    huxleysmom Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    I had him tested for allergies. He came back positive for all poultry and many other things. I know it's not always accurate, but I have been feeding him wet food that had some chicken or turkey in it as he also happens to be very picky and does not want to eat the few canned food I had found that had none of the ingredient he is supposedly allergic to. It's been a good 3 weeks now and he still has bad symptoms coming back as soon as I try to put him on Pred every other day.
    I haven't looked at Rad Cat very closely, but it is way too expensive. I would love to just do meat and supplement, but EZ complete has chicken liver in it.

     

  4. paiger8

    paiger8 TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    Just making sure you got him tested. I see a lot of people on here that think their cat has a chicken allergy because the cat is throwing up the "Chicken, Pea, and Rice" kibble or similar. It's usually not the chicken. ;) In that case... have you thought about supplementing yourself? I make my own and use this recipe: Recipe: Feline Nutrition's Easy Raw Cat Food - Feline Nutrition

    It doesn't have any chicken in the supplements. You'd have to use the livers and hearts from another animal, instead of poultry. But there is a lot of variety on Hare-Today.com. The recipe also gives you an option to skip the heart and add more taurine, so you'd just have to find liver.
     

  5. LTS3

    LTS3 TCS Member Top Cat

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    Are you using the chub of Bravo pork? Bravo Frozen Blends Pork for Cats - Bravo Pet Food it contains veggies in addition to the pork and bones and organs. Bravo makes a Basics chub that is just meat and bone and organ with no veggies and a Boneless chub that is just ground up meat with no organs or bonesor veggies. The Basics or Boneless would be a better choice to use for a raw diet.

    Many cats don't take to raw food right away but may eat homecooked instead. That might be something to look into. There's a TCS thread with recipies: Cooked Recipes Thread You can look through them to see if there are any that don't contain eggs.
     

  6. amysuen

    amysuen TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    I understand wanting to start simple using a commercial food, but with his allergies you might be better off making your own. I've been making homemade cat food for just a month and it's really not that hard. It can be time-consuming and there is a learning curve, but once you find a good recipe and get all the ingredients, putting it together is easy.
     

  7. huxleysmom

    huxleysmom Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    Could I feed just ground meat (with supplements of course? Or does it have to have bones and organs too? If I follow his allergy testing results, the only Bravo meats I could do would be venison, rabbit or pork. He does not seem to be a fan of rabbit or venison, but happily eats pork canned food. That's why I thought i'd try pork.
     

  8. amysuen

    amysuen TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    From my limited experience, it needs to have bone and organs too. The goal is to provide food that is as close to what cats would be eating in the wild as possible, and in the wild they'd eat the bones and innards.

    You could do bone meal instead of "real" bones but it's not as nutritious. There is a glandular supplement you can use instead of "secreting" organs but I just discovered that I should be using it or the "icky organs" so I haven't tried either yet.

    I believe some of the ground rabbit sold for pet food includes bones, liver, and other innards so you wouldn't have to source those separately.
     

  9. LTS3

    LTS3 TCS Member Top Cat

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    Boneless organ less ground meat is fine as long as it is supplemented properly. Many people use a pre-mix such as Alnutrin or EZComplete with boneless organless meats.

    There might be egg-free recipies here: Raw Recipe Thread Some cats who are allergic to chicken can eat eggs with no problem at all.

    Does the pet store have Primal Pet raw food? Primal Pet makes a ground pork with bones and organs chub Supplemental Raw Diets for Pets: Pork Grind It will still need to be supplemented.

    Hare-Today.com is another source for a variety of raw meats for pet food use.
     

  10. huxleysmom

    huxleysmom Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    Thanks!! I had not seen that primal sold ground food too. I much prefer to go with a vegetable-free ground food with bones and organs. I'll definitely check with my local pet store if they can get it for me. I am not opposed to hare-today, but if I can avoid the shipping cost and shipping issues that may come with it, I'd rather do that! I also don't have the freezer space to buy so much ground food at once.
    As far as the eggs are concerned, I've not decided yet if I want to go with or without. I guess I could always start with, and find a way to substitute it if Huxley still has allergy symptoms after 8-12 weeks on it.

    Now for the actual food preparation process. If I understand correctly, I would get the chub frozen solid, would have to thaw it for a few hours in the fridge and then add the supplements, mix it well, separate it into single portions in ziplock bags and freeze it again. My question is how thawed should the meat be? I have always been told it is dangerous to consume something that has been defrosted and frozen again unless it has been cooked in between. Is that not the case for cats?

     

  11. valentine319

    valentine319 TCS Member Super Cat

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    My cat has allergies. I'm going with Hare Today, whole carcass fine ground rabbit. I just got my delivery and will be mixing so I'll come back and let you know my thoughts.
     

  12. huxleysmom

    huxleysmom Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    Thanks! Hope it goes well!!

     

  13. valentine319

    valentine319 TCS Member Super Cat

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    Orange&White and others suggested the following for my allergic cat (fish and maybe chicken allergies along with I think environmental). I'm hoping it's just food.

    Hare Today has Whole Carcass Fine Grind Rabbit (rabbit tends to be a novel protein). It's closest to a wild prey diet. It's higher in Omega 3's so if we don't use fish oils (I'm pretty sure mine is allergic to fish) we're still fine. My cat is on natures instinct Limited Ingredient Diet Rabbit canned and it has no flax or fish oil in it. Flax is used when they are allergic but there can be issues with possible flax allergy or flax oil going bad or the ability to convert it.
    These are the supplement amounts used in the feline-nutrition.org recipe. Omit or reduce the lite salt (as that is the source of iodine).

    For every 1.5lb food add:

    No egg yolk if you are in doubt
    500 mg Taurine
    50 mg B Complex
    No fish oil if in doubt
    100 mg Vitamin E (get the dry version)
    Omit or reduce because it has iodine - (3/8 tsp (.375tsp) Lite Salt)
    2 oz water

    The individuals here recommended this supplementation for rabbit. 1-5 lb whole carcass fine ground rabbit from Hare-Today and mix in Taurine, B Complex and Dry E seems easiest to start with. I'm going to mix it together and put in ice cube trays (bought them at the dollar tree, they come in different colors so you could keep colors to certain meat) to make meat cubes. All the amazing people here have recommended great things to help. The meat cubes can be defrosted fast in baggies but also help when transitioning and not feeding a full raw diet at first, don't want to waste it. Cut off the corner of the bag when defrosted and pipe out.

    I'm going Whole Carcass Rabbit Fine Grind at first to make something easy to transition my cat to raw. I pay over $100 for 1 month of canned food and it's not helping her that much. Once again the above is from all the great people here helping me figure out how to get her on raw. I do not have anything other than grocery store meat to consider (I want to keep her on rabbit) where I live and no pet store carries anything but some faux not really raw dog food. There are hunters where I live but I've heard there can be a parasite in wild rabbits. I really don't want to be skinning rabbits either.

    I just notice you said he didn't like rabbit. Was it canned or was it raw? Despite the canned that I buy saying it has peas and nutrients i really think it would be highly different than raw. If you can get samples at the store of raw it might be worth trying, assuming it was canned he didn't like (canned tends to be a bit dry).

    If you went with another meat you could use alnutrin and flax for the omega 3. I'll check my cans of natures instinct turkey to see if they use flax in that. Raw Food FAQ | Hare Today, Gone Tomorrow
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2017
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  14. valentine319

    valentine319 TCS Member Super Cat

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    So natures instinct Limited Ingredient Turkey uses flax oil.
     

  15. huxleysmom

    huxleysmom Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    Thank you very much for your recipe! Huxley was not a fan of rabbit when I tried to feed him that, but then again he kind of stopped eating completely as he was so nauseous and had to spend 3 days at the vet hospital so maybe he'll eat rabbit this time around as he is very hungry from the steroids. Pork and rabbit are the 2 proteins he did not test positive to (though he was not tested for venison so I hope I can add that too). He did test positive to flax seed though so that's out as well as all legumes. The fish allergy is to the protein so he may be fine with fish oil, but I'd rather avoid it at first. What can I say... I adopted a very special boy! I joke with my friend that he is allergic to the world! I love him to bits though! ❤️
    It's good to see that they didn't substitute the eggs in your recipe, if I can just do without and not have to worry about adding something to replace it, it definitely makes my life easier.
    I understand you not wanting to skin a rabbit!! I don't even cook for myself so I would rather not have to deal with grinders and all that mess. So griund meat is the way to go for me.
    Because of his multiple allergies, I could only find a handful of very expensive canned food that did not contain any of the things he was allergic to, and he would not eat them.

    The ice cube tray idea is brilliant! I'll definitely try that!
    Since I am going away for Memorial weekend and I want my friend who will look after him to not have any issues with him eating (and taking his meds that he happily eats hidden in his current food) I will not start the raw journey for a couple of weeks. I'm hoping he'll be on board!

    Has your kitty accepted raw easily?


     

  16. valentine319

    valentine319 TCS Member Super Cat

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    Was the rabbit raw or canned? With the natures instinct limited it's dryer. Venison from natural balance she hated. It's really really dry.

    Though they say flax oil isn't a great choice, we are limited with allergies. Tracy from Hare Today recommended pollock oil but I'm concerned if it smells. Some people say the cats don't like the smell. I will try fish oil after she's been on raw rabbit for a month at least. I just got 3 raw 5 lb fine ground rabbit from Hare Today and they are defrosting so I can mix in the supplements and put in trays so she hasn't started yet. No pet store near me has any true raw food.

    Natures Instinct LID canned well she's never in love. She wouldn't eat venison. Turkey she ate but it was like "not a big fan but I guess it'll do". Rabbit she liked a bit more (I add water to it). But the big issue is she has a sensitive stomach and it's not settling. I give her lysine to keep her immune system better. I give her tummyworks so she doesn't constantly fart or have soft poop. This last week though she's always having sensitive stomach. We are hitting 4-6 months on canned rabbit and she's getting bored.

    I'm going to run off on a bit of a tangent. So dry can develop mites that they can get allergies to. I've heard they can get allergies to peas in the canned. One concern is if it's a facility dedicated to Limited. If they make the regular food then lightly clean it but not completely they can still get trace contamination in the food. My big reason for going raw is the over $100 a month for a cat that can clear out a room with an upset stomach.

    I got my girl at 3 years old. She was on orijen 6 fishes with a sensitive stomach. Basically she would continually fart. Then a year later in spring she pretty much pulled out most her hair and scratched and scratched. I've gone through so many canned foods. Zyrtec helps her some but I'll put in the small amount of time to mix vitamins in raw food to see if I can get her healthier. I'll let you know how it goes. I should be able to have it defrosted in a 48 hours and get it in ice cube trays. One person here doesn't take them out of the trays. Just stacks the trays in a box in the freezer.

    I'll let you know how she handles her first try of rabbit. She did get to try rare steak. That was a complete and utter win. I think this should go well. Later I'll worry about other types of meat and chunks to clean her teeth. Missing Link sensitive uses flax meal instead of flax oil but it will make their poop weird. There are too many things in it for me to try it again. I tried it once and she looked at me like I had lost my mind. It was like adding metimucil to her wet food and she wouldn't eat it.
     

  17. valentine319

    valentine319 TCS Member Super Cat

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    Oh and someone here said while their cat wouldn't try the raw they stuck their finger in it and shoved it in Kitty's mouth. Said after that their cat was like, "this is good".

    I'll let you know in 2 days.
     

  18. huxleysmom

    huxleysmom Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    Dealing with allergies is such a pain isn't it? It's like a 5000 piece puzzle that I have to complete in the dark! The testing helped some, but he came back positive to so many things (some I'm sure are false positives) that it makes it real hard to find any true hypoallergenic food for him. Huxley has only ever eaten dry and canned food so I hope he at least considers raw! The other thing is he has stomatitis and had a full mouth extraction so no teeth left. That takes out chunck meat as I am not sure he'll be able to handle that, but I'm fine with ground as long as I get it already made. I am secretly hoping that if I leave him on his current diet for long enough his symptoms will disaapear, but I know it's just wishful thinking. He is currently comfortable with zyrtec and Pred everyday, but I would love to be able to at least get him off of Pred.We shall see what happens. I hope your girl improves with raw too!

    Good luck!!
    Dealing
     

  19. valentine319

    valentine319 TCS Member Super Cat

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    Oh you should really post that in another post. Should he go on boneless fine grind? I don't see any reason he needs chunky meaty bones with no teeth. Poor thing. Stomititis sounds horrible. I believe he should be kept bone free but I'd post it and get recommends. Maybe a boneless and organ mix with alnutrin to compensate for missing bones.

    It would be magical if raw cleared this up. Natures instinct does have bone fragments. I've seen eggshell used as a replacement too.
     

  20. huxleysmom

    huxleysmom Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    To be honest I never even thought about it. I assumed the bones were ground really fine. He can eat kibbles without any problem, he just doesn't really chew them.
    I guess I should ask shouldn't I?

    To be honest
     

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