How rare is black smoke coat?

Stepcai

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Stepcai Stepcai your cat's color appears to be tortie smoke, from looking at her face. My guess is that the female kitten is tortie smoke like mom, and the males could possibly be red silver tabby (cameo tabby), although it's hard to tell in the picture.
Thank you. That's where I'm confused between a tortie and a black smoke... Maybe I could post a better pix next time when the boys can be still at least for a moment for me to be able to take a decent photo of them.
 

Sharra

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I had a kitten that was black with a few white hairs throughout his coat. He was black most of the time. But once a year he had a beautiful silver coat covering his body. Here is a picture of him during his smoke coat time. The rest of the time he was black.
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lutece

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Lovely! From what I can see, I think your cat was probably a solid black cat, not a smoke. It's normal for the longest parts of the coat to appear grayish or brownish when a longhaired cat is in full coat. Look up pictures of top winning black Persian cats and you'll see what I mean.
 

Sharra

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Lovely! From what I can see, I think your cat was probably a solid black cat, not a smoke. It's normal for the longest parts of the coat to appear grayish or brownish when a longhaired cat is in full coat. Look up pictures of top winning black Persian cats and you'll see what I mean.
He was only a different color on his body for a couple months of every year. Otherwise he was all black. Never understood how or why. Not a black with under coat of silver or gray, but black fur down to his skin.
 

Moka

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These 2 photos are of the same cat
Wow, that is a big difference! What a beautiful cat! 🥰 I agree with lutece lutece in that your kitty was long haired and solid black, but not smoke. I have a long haired black cat as well and her coat changes colors throughout the year. As it gets colder and her coat gets fuller, she develops silver and red- brown colors. All cats can and do have coat changes through out their lives, but black cats seem to have the most stunning and obvious changes, in my personal experience. Black cats will often develop "rusting" (red- brown) as they age and supposedly also with sun exposure. As for the silver, I have noticed with Salem that it develops with her winter coat all over her body (Nowhere near as silver as you kitty though) and she sheds it off in the spring. But, the patch of silver on her belly stays year round. It was where she was shaved for her spay. Did you ever shave you kitty? I noticed in your second photo that the silver is everywhere except his head and legs, areas generally not shaved.
Here is a picture of my little one, Salem. Her coat is just starting to change for the season, so I expect more colors to appear in the coming weeks. But, you can already see the reds, browns and silver. This is only her second winter with an adult coat. So I am curious how things will change over the years.
Edit: I forgot to say, Welcome to the site! :hellosmiley:
Salem 9-19-2020.JPG
 

Sharra

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Wow, that is a big difference! What a beautiful cat! 🥰 I agree with lutece lutece in that your kitty was long haired and solid black, but not smoke. I have a long haired black cat as well and her coat changes colors throughout the year. As it gets colder and her coat gets fuller, she develops silver and red- brown colors. All cats can and do have coat changes through out their lives, but black cats seem to have the most stunning and obvious changes, in my personal experience. Black cats will often develop "rusting" (red- brown) as they age and supposedly also with sun exposure. As for the silver, I have noticed with Salem that it develops with her winter coat all over her body (Nowhere near as silver as you kitty though) and she sheds it off in the spring. But, the patch of silver on her belly stays year round. It was where she was shaved for her spay. Did you ever shave you kitty? I noticed in your second photo that the silver is everywhere except his head and legs, areas generally not shaved.
Here is a picture of my little one, Salem. Her coat is just starting to change for the season, so I expect more colors to appear in the coming weeks. But, you can already see the reds, browns and silver. This is only her second winter with an adult coat. So I am curious how things will change over the years.
Edit: I forgot to say, Welcome to the site! :hellosmiley:
View attachment 355339
Thanks for the welcome. I am not sure how long he stayed silver but I do know that he was never shaved. I did have a male torti that was shaved every summer. He actually looked a lot like your kitty. View attachment 355422
IMG_20171102_145908829.jpg
View attachment 355422
Wow, that is a big difference! What a beautiful cat! 🥰 I agree with lutece lutece in that your kitty was long haired and solid black, but not smoke. I have a long haired black cat as well and her coat changes colors throughout the year. As it gets colder and her coat gets fuller, she develops silver and red- brown colors. All cats can and do have coat changes through out their lives, but black cats seem to have the most stunning and obvious changes, in my personal experience. Black cats will often develop "rusting" (red- brown) as they age and supposedly also with sun exposure. As for the silver, I have noticed with Salem that it develops with her winter coat all over her body (Nowhere near as silver as you kitty though) and she sheds it off in the spring. But, the patch of silver on her belly stays year round. It was where she was shaved for her spay. Did you ever shave you kitty? I noticed in your second photo that the silver is everywhere except his head and legs, areas generally not shaved.
Here is a picture of my little one, Salem. Her coat is just starting to change for the season, so I expect more colors to appear in the coming weeks. But, you can already see the reds, browns and silver. This is only her second winter with an adult coat. So I am curious how things will change over the years.
Edit: I forgot to say, Welcome to the site! :hellosmiley:
View attachment 355339
Your kitty reminds me of my male torti. I do not know how long Wolfgang stayed silver but I do know he was never shaved. My male torti was shaved every summer.
 

Moka

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Thanks for the welcome. I am not sure how long he stayed silver but I do know that he was never shaved. I did have a male torti that was shaved every summer. He actually looked a lot like your kitty. View attachment 355422View attachment 355423View attachment 355422

Your kitty reminds me of my male torti. I do not know how long Wolfgang stayed silver but I do know he was never shaved. My male torti was shaved every summer.
I don't think you other kitty is a male tortie. From the one picture you posted, he looks like another long haired, solid black cat. The reds, browns and tans are the rusting that I mentioned earlier. It happens a lot with black cats. Only a very tiny percentage of torties are male and from that percentage an even smaller number are true male torties. Most of the "male" torties that you see stories about are either hermaphrodites (Both male and Female parts) or pseudo hermaphrodites (Looks Male outside, but is female inside).True male torties are very rare and are often sterile because of the same genetic defects that caused them to be a tortie in the first place. A true male tortie that is fertile is like bigfoot. Sure, there are plenty of sightings, but they end up being a bear or something else mistaken for bigfoot. ;)
 

Sharra

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I don't think you other kitty is a male tortie. From the one picture you posted, he looks like another long haired, solid black cat. The reds, browns and tans are the rusting that I mentioned earlier. It happens a lot with black cats. Only a very tiny percentage of torties are male and from that percentage an even smaller number are true male torties. Most of the "male" torties that you see stories about are either hermaphrodites (Both male and Female parts) or pseudo hermaphrodites (Looks Male outside, but is female inside).True male torties are very rare and are often sterile because of the same genetic defects that caused them to be a tortie in the first place. A true male tortie that is fertile is like bigfoot. Sure, there are plenty of sightings, but they end up being a bear or something else mistaken for bigfoot. ;)
No my Razzmatazz was a male torti. He was checked every time he saw a new vet technician because they didn't believe me, or his chart. It was funny most of the time. He was a beautiful cat. These photos are all the same cat. I loved his chest markings the most.
 

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lutece

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That looks like a tortie to me!

Male torties are most likely to be either a chimera (basically, two fertilized eggs that got smooshed together and became one cat instead of two cats), or XXY. Although chimeras are rare, I've been told that they are more common than XXY males.

Chimera males can be fertile, but they don't pass on their chimera status to their offspring. Each sperm contains genetic material from just one of the "two cats" that make up the chimera male. So there is nothing valuable or special about a chimera male in terms of his reproductive potential, other than perhaps the ability to create a slightly more varied assortment of kitten colors.
 

Sharra

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I don't know if he was ever fertile or not. He was a rescue who was 3 or 4 yes old when we got him and already neutered. But he was a character. He passed away this year about a month after my eldest son. We miss them both terribly.
 
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