How Much Liver Is Too Much?

ginny

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I've recently had to make some changes in my kitties diets once again because Oreo is now a diabetic. I've also tried the Stella and Chewy's raw Duck about a week or two ago. They don't like it so far. Will keep trying on my days off. Raw has to be taken up an hour after you put it down.

So, I'm buying low carb for all, and low phos foods for Nat according to several lists I've found and absolutely no grain. I didn't realize that Friskies pate has rice in it. Those infernal ingredient lists are so hard to read even with glasses!

I read on the Cat info site to limit liver, since it's a cheap ingredient, cheaper than meat which "enhances the producers' profit margins" according to the author.

Every single can I have has liver in some way shape or form. Either giblets, or meat byproducts, or liver as one of the ingredients. Sometimes is high up on the list, sometimes further down, but every single one, except for the FF chicken in delicate broth has liver in it.

How much is too much? Could this be a cause of our kitties tummy upsets when the vet can't find a reason? It has to be what they are eating.

I'm going to have to try to get them back on the limited ingredient canned foods again.
 

IndyJones

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Liver could cause upset possibly but I'd be more concerned about the mystery meat in the Fancy Feast and friskies.

Unspecified meat can easily cause food sensitivity since it comes from an unspecified source.

I don't think liver is too bad unless it's goose liver which may be a byproduct of the foie gras industry. But ethics aside I personally don't see a problem with liver in food.
 
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ginny

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Yeah, I always see it as a red flag when I see by products or natural flavors. Why don't they just SAY what it is? In human foods there are a number of different names for sugar. Plus the FDA does not tightly regulate the content labels. So we are kind of on our own there. PLUS, the ingredients can change at any time, I guess because of availability and other factors. It's so discouraging. I guess we're all just going to have to make our own food for our kitties and be done with it.
 
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ginny

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I know that humans need to limit liver intake (mine is currently at zero which is not good, I know) so it seems reasonable that cats need to limit somewhat too. And since it's in almost every can on the market, how do you know when enough is enough or too much?
 

mizzely

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The cat info site says:

"I like to see liver in the diet but not as the first ingredient. Liver is high in vitamin A and D which can be overdosed. Liver only represents ~5% of a cat’s natural diet. Liver is cheap which is why it often appears first on the list in some diets."

Is it different for cats with diabetes?
 

danteshuman

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I was going to say my Natural Balance L.I.D. Limited Ingredient Diets Venison & Green Pea wet food doesn't have liver in it but it does. Plus side it is the third ingredient and venison liver :) If you are really worried about you can make your own. Also there is fancy feast pouches. However be sure to read the ingredients there to; their chicken & vegetable pouch contains "Fish Broth, Tuna, Chicken, Fish Extract, Whitefish, Milk,........" hardly really chickeny! You can look up the ingredients before hand online (I shop chewy.com) if you want it in a larger font. I rotate my guys wet food daily. At most they are getting liver 3 times a week, closer to 2. Your vet will also sell more expensive $$$ wet food. I'm sure next time you are there they will let you read the ingredients.
 
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ginny

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The cat info site says:

"I like to see liver in the diet but not as the first ingredient. Liver is high in vitamin A and D which can be overdosed. Liver only represents ~5% of a cat’s natural diet. Liver is cheap which is why it often appears first on the list in some diets."

Is it different for cats with diabetes?
I don't think so. I just mentioned that to show why all of a sudden I'm having to eliminate as many carbs as I can, but in so doing I noticed just how much liver is in their food. How can I estimate 5% of liver in their food? That seems an awfully small amount and I would say I'm probably exceeding it. How would I go about determining 5%? By where liver is listed in the ingredients list?
 
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ginny

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I was going to say my Natural Balance L.I.D. Limited Ingredient Diets Venison & Green Pea wet food doesn't have liver in it but it does. Plus side it is the third ingredient and venison liver :) If you are really worried about you can make your own. Also there is fancy feast pouches. However be sure to read the ingredients there to; their chicken & vegetable pouch contains "Fish Broth, Tuna, Chicken, Fish Extract, Whitefish, Milk,........" hardly really chickeny! You can look up the ingredients before hand online (I shop chewy.com) if you want it in a larger font. I rotate my guys wet food daily. At most they are getting liver 3 times a week, closer to 2. Your vet will also sell more expensive $$$ wet food. I'm sure next time you are there they will let you read the ingredients.
Yes it's in almost every can, isn't it? I noticed my kitties didn't exactly like their no liver food sample tonight. They licked the broth but did not eat all the chicken. Maybe I'll puree it next time. They are used to the pate consistency.
 
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ginny

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So, I just got back from Petco. I'm going to have to order their food online I guess. Every single can I got has liver in it, except for the chicken one from Soulistic. I got two cans of it. I don't see how I'm going to limit their liver when it's in almost every can I have for them.
 

mizzely

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It's probably in almost all foods since liver is a natural source of many nutrients, like vitamin A, so they don't have to add artificial supplementation.
 
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ginny

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That makes sense, but how much is too much? It's usually not the first ingredient but it is 2nd, 3rd or 4th depending on the variety. If it has liver in the name it's likely to be first or second.
 

mizzely

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Its all in the name per AAFCO guidelines:

Reading Labels

This is my understanding. Basically, if you choose a food that is named without liver, with, flavor, and entree/dinner/meal/recipe/feast in the title, it cannot comprise more than 5% of the food.

Examples:
Blue Buffalo Freedom Indoor Adult Chicken Recipe Grain-Free Canned Cat Food
Chicken, Chicken Broth, Chicken Liver, Carrots, Sweet Potatoes, Natural Flavor,...

Based on the name, it only has to compromise 25% chicken. However,

Blue Buffalo Wilderness Chicken Grain-Free Canned Cat Food

Chicken, Chicken Broth, Chicken Liver, Potatoes, Natural Flavor,...

This food would have to be 95% chicken (70% without water) as it names it as the sole ingredient in the name, and doesn't mention any of the buzz words that indicate it has a lower volume of meat.

So, ingredients for those are very similar but the name clues you in to what percentage of the food is what is says it is.

The 95% Rule

“Fido’s Favorite Beef Dog Food” and “Kitty’s Delight Chicken and Rice Cat Food” are examples of product names that indicate the named ingredients make up most of the product. Named ingredients must account for at least 70% of the total product by weight, and at least 95% of the product by weight, not counting added water. (Typically, water is added to canned foods to allow for processing. Dry foods also have water added during processing to help mix ingredients, but that water is driven off when the product is dried.)


The remaining 5% of ingredients in the product will be those required for additional nutritional purposes, such as vitamins and minerals, and small amounts of other ingredients necessary for the formulation of the product.


In the "Kitty’s Delight Chicken and Rice Cat Food" example above, compliance with the 95% rule would dictate the chicken and rice must total up to at least 95% of the ingredients, not counting the water for processing. However, even with the water considered in the calculations, chicken and rice combined must make up at least 70% of the product. When more than one ingredient is in the name, no ingredient can be less than 3% the total product by weight. Because chicken is listed first in the name, there must be more chicken than rice in the recipe. Thus, in this example, a product containing 40 pounds of chicken, 30 pounds or rice, 25 pounds of water for processing and 5 pounds of other ingredients per 100-pound batch would meet the requirements of the regulation.


The rules also note that coined or contracted names of ingredients do not exempt them from the above requirements. For example, "Melanie's Chik'n Lik'n Cat Food" would still have to meet the 95% rule.


The 25% Rule

“Fluffy’s Chicken Dinner,” “Beef Entrée for Mature Dogs” and “Lamb and Rice Platter for Puppies” are examples of the 25% rule at work. The named ingredient(s) must comprise at least 10% of the total product by weight and at least 25% of the product by weight not including the added water. Additional descriptors, such as “dinner,” “entrée,” “platter” and so on, appear in the name. If there is more than one ingredient, no named ingredient can be less than 3% the total product by weight.


The best way to understand the 25% rule is to compare it to a restaurant order where a person is getting a dinner entrée and the meal includes other major parts such as vegetables, potatoes, salad—not simply the sirloin or the salmon.


The “With” Rule

Simply put, including the words “with” or “similar” allows an ingredient to be included in the product name or anywhere else on the label at an inclusion rate of at least 3% of each named ingredient. “Honest Jack’s Dog Food With Chicken” should contain at least 3% chicken, while “Cynthia’s Super Cat Food with Tuna and Rice” should contain at least 3% tuna and 3% rice.


The Flavor Rule

A product does not need to have a huge amount of an ingredient which only provides flavor. A flavor designation in a product name (or elsewhere on a label) may be used as long as:

· a listed ingredient provides the flavor

· the flavor descriptor is printed in the same font and as conspicuously as the name of the designated flavor


For example, on a bag of “chicken-flavored dog food,” one should find chicken fat or some other ingredient providing chicken flavor in the ingredient list, and both words “chicken” and “flavored” are printed in the same font-type and size in the product name.
 
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ginny

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Thank you for the link. That was helpful.
 
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