How many times to attempt re-introduction until you give up - Re-Introduction gone badly

[sparksoc]

House of 4 cats, all been together for 2.5 years. Oldest cat (10 yr) and youngest cat (3 yr) suddenly started fighting, the fighting escalated within a couple of weeks to my oldest (10 yr) clawing the base of my youngest's (3 yr) tail, three different scratch areas, these were not light wounds. Separated for 4 weeks and began to re-introduce. After being re-introduced, they were fine seeing each other physically but still had a clear barrier between them, but once they were allowed to be around each other they were back to fighting within 5 min.

My question is, do I keep trying to re-introduce, and if so how many attempts. Or does this sound like a re-home situation.

 

[di and bob]

Is everyone spayed and neutered? Are they both male, both female? That can make a big difference. If they are, it sounds like redirected aggression where one cat is so scared by something (such as a strange cat coming around outside), and directing their fear and aggression onto the other cat. I would start over with the clear partition between them (you don't want them forgetting each other) and start over again. Maybe get some calming treats or Bach Rescue Remedy to calm everyone down when you let them together again. It DOES help. You have to find out what happened to scare them so bad, it may be still going on, maybe new people coming over, a cat/animal outside they can see, or vet visits that are introducing new smells. If they were together for 2 years without incident, then it CAN happen again.

 

[sparksoc]

Thank you for your help
Both male and both neutered. I have started using the wall plug in Feliway Optimum Pheromone Diffuser. That does seem to calm everyone down but has not been the end all be all to stop the fighting. There have been no changes inside the home to make anyone scared, as for outdoors, my street has always had at least two outdoor cats around (Their owners live on my street and they are indoor/outdoor cats which I have noticed brings strays to my street) so I would think my cats would be somewhat used to smelling or seeing different animals outside?
It is my suspicion, what has started the bad fights, is that my youngest (3 yr) has always been the "playful" instigator. He is very high energy so I think to compensate with his, at times, boredom he would mess with he other cats in the house, (Swat at them, hunt them down a little) but I would never see him have this behavior to my oldest cat (10 yr) I believed because my oldest cat has always been the most dominant in my house. I believe that either my youngest began messing with my oldest cat or my oldest cat felt the need to interfere with my youngest cat messing with another cat in my house. I am not sure if either of those scenarios are common among cats, I would love some input.

 

[di and bob]

Of course that could be behind the incidents. Your older cat may have just been pushed too far. Also remember, swatting, hissing, and growling are all perfectly normal, but scratches and bites like you described are not. You might get a couple of kickeroos on Amazon or at a pet store (an elongated cat toy) keep one in a plastic bag with catnip to keep them fresh and throw the other towards the cat that is instigating any hostility. Whether towards your too excited young one or the older cat to keep him occupied. They really work.

 

[sparksoc]

Thank you for the advice on the kickeroos, my cats do love those as toys. But based on a little more of the background information, do you still believe this is a fight they can get over, do you think keep attempting the re-introduction could eventually stick? I think the biggest hurdle to get over is that my youngest cat may be traumatized by the physical attack.

I am having a hard time finding information online whether continued re-attempts of re-introduction proves successful. I am trying to find out if continuing this re-introduction journey is more or less stressful/helpful than re-homing. Also, to add a little more information, I do have a home available to re-home the youngest in, as an owner my preferred situation is to keep everyone together but only if that is best situations for all 4 of my cats.

 

[di and bob]

Yes, eventually they will get along. It just takes finding a right method and lots of time. It really depends on how much time and energy you are willing to invest.i have had luck putting the aggressor in a harness and leash so you can control them.

 

[sparksoc]

Thank you very much for the input, I really appreciate it.

 

[ArtNJ]

It unfortunately makes sense in a way, as if the fight basically set them back to scratch, well we know that a lot of 10 year olds have a very tough time accepting stranger cats, especially accepting playful youngsters that don't respect no for an answer. I did have something a bit similar years ago, where when my two kittens turned one, the playful one appeared to lose any and all tolerance for being hissed at. So he would try to iniate play with my older cat, who would hiss and growl, and then the younger one would appear to say "You DARE??? You hiss at ME??? Prepare to die!"

Usually, of course, that isn't the way this will go. The ten year old will just hiss and not actually do much, and the younger cat won't go into battle mode. And when you get that, then eventually they can calm down and progress. But when you have cats that for whatever reason are ready to fight at the drop of the hat, and one is a senior, well, I never solved it. It just seemed to me that in the situation I had, it wasn't something that could be solved by any reintroduction process. For me, it was the younger cat somehow changing on adulthood, to where although he still wanted to play play play, he had zero tolerance for being hissed at.

So I don't have the belief that these issues can always be fixed. But maybe there is still hope. Have you taken the 10 year old to the vet? If he has something going on like arthritis, that makes cats much more crotchety with much less tolerance for youngsters. Something like that could easily prevent a reintroduction from working, and pain meds could really help!

How were they separated? Did they have visual access?

 

[sparksoc]

Thank you for sharing your experience. I am sorry you have gone through something similar.
The senior cat has been to his yearly check up with the vet within 6 months of when the fighting started, he is in great health.

For 4 weeks they were separated by a permanent door, each side of the door had at least two rooms and they had their own litter box and food areas. I have a total of 4 cats, so for the most part of the separation I would have 2 cats in each area so they also had another companion while separated. The door separating them just happened to have a decent size gap on the bottom, probably about a inch wide so they had ample opportunity to sniff each under the door and they would all the time with out any hissing, also during the last 3 days of separation I put up a temporary "Zip Door" which is clear tarp basically that I hung around the door opening so they were cut off from each other physically but could see each other and that went well as well, no hissing.
But once they both had open access to each other again they fought again.

 

[ArtNJ]

Ah thats interesting, I've not heard of zip door, but I can see what it is on the net. Was it difficult for you to get in and out? I'd think that would be the disadvantage vs. a gate. Three days of visual access may be a little short, you could try longer if your giving it another go, but if they seemed totally calm then who knows if it will help. I'm not usually a fan of that feeding on each side of the door thing in some guides, but maybe you could try that when the zip door is up. And then, obviously, when it does come time to let them mingle, if you can be ready to prevent a fight, that at least preserves hope of improvement.

 

[sparksoc]

The zip door actually worked out pretty well, for sure not as easy as a door or a permanent gate to get through but it was a quick and easy and cheap solution.
Thank you for all your input on this, I really appreciate the help.

 

[honeychurro]

It sounds like your 3 yr old cat has too much energy (which is why he's bothering everyone else around). I think you need to play with him more and maybe get a cat wheel or some-sort to drain all the energy.. Also, possibly getting more scratcher around your house may be helpful.

Also, you can start clicker training too. For instance, when they look at each other (without hissing, growling, attacking etc) - you click - and give them treat. And repeat everyday. This will enforce positive association between them.