How do you respond to colony cats being removed from schools due to Health Code Violations?

melissa laninfa

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We have this problem a lot in Orlando. They claim the cats are "dangerous" for the children due to the risk of scratches and Toxoplasmosis.
 

di and bob

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I would think the risk of toxoplasmosis would be so low it would almost be nil. Why don't we hear a LOT more about it since there are millions of pet cats in the US? It sounds to me that they are just looking for an excuse. Maybe they should get rid of the school officials, they MIGHT pass on some virus or something!
 

furmonster mom

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On the other hand...

What level are the schools?

If the children are very young, it's difficult to monitor them and teach them how to treat a feral colony.

Even if the kids are middle school age, do you trust little boys not to throw rocks or chase them?

High School teenagers might be a fraction better, but not by much.

So, unless someone is willing to come into the schools and make presentations to all the classes on a regular basis, removing/re-locating them is probably the easiest solution.
 

di and bob

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Wouldn't that be a great opportunity to teach children how to handle a cat colony? Why do children never have to take any responsibility any more? Schools all have fenced in grounds any more and with shy, timid ferals I couldn't see any physical contact at all. Should we kill or relocate all the squirrels and rabbits, they might have rabies! Kids are NOT allowed to leave school grounds to where wild creatures might be, I don't see any reason to relocate anything. Maybe I'm missing something, but I guess I just strongly agree to leave poor creatures alone that have a hard enough time trying to survive!
 

furmonster mom

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Wouldn't that be a great opportunity to teach children how to handle a cat colony? .....

I just strongly agree to leave poor creatures alone that have a hard enough time trying to survive!
It would be a great opportunity... but who is going to do it? 

It would take a concerted effort on the part of a knowledgeable feral colony handler to visit all the classes in the school and make presentations.  You also need someone who is not only knowledgeable in the field, but can also relate to the kids.  AND they should be able to do it on a regular basis... year after year.

And do you really expect children to leave them alone?  Have you seen schools out at recess?

I know I would be hard pressed supervising a couple hundred children, and keeping them away from the cats.

I don't agree with the "toxoplasmosis" argument, but scratches and bites can be a concern. 

In the end, I think it's really a problem of practicality.
 
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di and bob

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I work at a school, and I know that those children better be supervised enough not to leave the school's fenced in grounds. Those wild cats would NEVER come near a playground of screaming children! I know at our school the children are reminded by the teachers several times a year, or at school meetings or rallies to never go near any strange animal, even tame dogs that show up, but once again, the playgrounds are fenced and that should never happen. The gates (and the doors) are all locked after school starts, NO EXCEPTIONS.
 

furmonster mom

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Have you worked at the schools in Orlando?

Can you trust that all schools operate like yours?

I can say that not all schools are fenced in all that well. 

My own middle school wasn't, back in the day.  In fact, for about a week there was a doberman who was running around the grounds.  This dog was generally friendly, and loved to run with the kids.  Some kids were afraid, but I and a few others were not.  We played with that dog without any sense of caution or fear.  Eventually, the school called humane services and had the dog taken to the shelter.  My mom found out where, and we ended up adopting him. 

At the same school, there was a house that backed up to one of the few chain-link fences that did exist.  It had a pomegranate tree that dropped fruit on the school side.  There were also cats over there.  Guess what some of the boys would do?... pick up the fruit and throw it at the cats through the fence.

Because cats and dogs are so widely domesticated, children see them as accessible, unlike squirrels and other "wildlife". 

Now, I grant that it's highly unlikely that a feral cat will just "hang around" a bunch of playing children... unless it's sick.  So, what happens when a kid finds one that IS sick, thinks it's "tame", and makes the mistake of trying to pick it up? 

Or what happens when a kid finds a kitten and thinks that its been "abandoned"...?

What about kids that are just plain mean, and find it amusing to throw things at animals?

Children don't have the same level of logic, caution, or restraint that (most) adults have.  It's inevitable that this will happen at some point.

Quite frankly, I don't think it's the cats that are "dangerous", but the kids.
 
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melissa laninfa

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This is a high school and the problem is that there is no place to relocate them to. We have cats everywhere in Florida. Also, the vacuum effect will just bring new intact cats to the same place. I've seen it a hundred times. It's just really frustrating because it's hard enough to try to reason with AC and the public. But, now we have code enforcement getting involved.
 

StefanZ

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Quite frankly, I don't think it's the cats that are "dangerous", but the kids.
Yes, of course.  The scratches come at best as results of clumsy petting and holding way too long.  But more often, because the cat trying to defend herself or more probably, her kittens...  The cats self never or almost never attacs by themselves.  They can hiss, but dont attack unless cornered for real and desperate.
e

But the agressor (ie the mean kids). have usualyl the advantage.  Its the defender who gets bashed, very seldom they.

The toxoplasmosis, ie cat poo, is  more understandable.  Not the argument for toxoplasmosis as such - you can get it from poorly cleaned groceries. That is surely the most common way to get it.

But cat poo in the sand playing grounds for small children, isnt nice - that may be a real problem.   The health risk smaller then you think, but still not nice.
 

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I Those wild cats would NEVER come near a playground of screaming children! NO EXCEPTIONS.
Absolutely correct. Feral cats would never, ever be around school children running around and playing. Ridiculous of one to think any other way. Friendly cats - yes. But not feral cats.

The toxoplasmosis, ie cat poo, is  more understandable.  Not the argument for toxoplasmosis as such - you can get it from poorly cleaned groceries. That is surely the most common way to get it.
But cat poo in the sand playing grounds for small children, isnt nice - that may be a real problem.   The health risk smaller then you think, but still not nice.
Yes!! Toxo is contracted by playing in sand/dirt that has a deposit of cat poop in it (from an already infected cat) and then you put your fingers in your mouth. Neighbors surrounding schools who let their friendly, pet cats outside may use the school ground sand pits as a litter box and this cannot be blamed solely on the feral cat.
 
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furmonster mom

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It is a conundrum, isn't it...

On one hand, you expect there to be minimal interaction due to the ferals' shyness.  And you expect that high schoolers would know better than to hassle them.

Also, it's not likely that high schoolers are still playing in sand boxes...

On the other hand, teenagers are weird, and often do dumb things even when they know better.

Also, there are possibly baseball diamonds, football fields and running tracks that could be, errrmmm.. attractive pooping areas.

If the cats were all healthy and fixed, that would be one thing. All could live and adapt.

But it sounds like there is an exponential problem of ferals breeding and overrunning the area. 

Without a strong TNR program and army of volunteers, what else are the authorities supposed to do? 
 
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melissa laninfa

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Now, the school is threatening that if my group doesn't trap and remove the cats, "they will be taken away and euthanized". How do you like that for educating our young people? This is in a "nice" area of town, too - Dr. Phillips. 
 

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There have been a lot of great points made in this thread already!

I think there are lots of things that can be done regarding cats on/near school grounds before anyone resorts to removing or relocating them.  Relocation itself is very difficult and time-consuming, and often the hardest part of doing a relocation is finding a place for the cats to be relocated to.  Alley Cat Allies has a good step-by-step for relocations here, but I always advise that people do everything in their power to mediate the situation and resolve it so the cats can stay in their current home.

One comment also mentioned the vacuum effect, which is another consideration against removing or relocating the cats.  Basically, cats reside in a place because the resources - food and shelter - are there to support them.  These things could be provided by a caregiver, or they could simply exist in that area (for example, a dumpster for food and a nice copse of shrubbery for shelter).  When the current cats are removed from an area, those resources will be freed up and new cats will move in.  It might not happen overnight or even in a month or two, but in the long run it will.  The people who objected to those cats in the first place will be caught in an endless cycle of removing new cats.  It might be obvious, but I am much more in favor of resolving any issues and allowing the cats to remain in their outdoor home... and of course making sure all the cats are TNRed.

So if we take those two points - that the cats cannot be relocated, and if the cats are removed more cats will just move in - we're left with resolving the issue at hand.  There can be a few points to address when doing this:

     1. What are the actual complaints about the cats?

     2. If there is a caregiver, can that person(s) do anything to help the situation?

     3. If there is not a caregiver, what can be done to help the situation?

1. What are the actual complaints about the cats?

For cats on or near school grounds, the most common issue that I have heard is that the people's health may be at risk.  Toxoplasmosis sometimes comes up, physical contact (like scratches) may come up, and I've also heard concerns that include fleas, rabies, typhus, and other parasites.  Instead of diverting the attention away from those concerns, I find that it is much more helpful and powerful to address them straight on.  Alley Cat Allies has a number of great resources and handouts on feral cat health: Feral Cat and the Public - a Healthy Relationship; Feral Cats Live Healthy Lives Outdoors; Rabies: A Public Health Victory; and if a one-page 'fast facts' is most helpful, then there's Fast Facts on Feral Cat Health.  It's also very pertinent to mention the fact that feral cats aren't like pet cats, meaning they are very unlikely to approach anyone!

2. If there is a caregiver, can that person(s) do anything to help the situation?

Short answer is: yes!  If there is a caregiver, they can facilitate and participate in making sure all of the cats are... you guessed it... TNRed!  Other things that a caregiver can do to ensure their cats are good neighbors to the school property is to feed the cats in an area that is away from school grounds and hidden from plain view.  If the cats are currently being fed close to the school, move the feeding station somewhere farther away and hidden!  It can also help to feed the cats on a schedule that coincides with the school's less active times (after classes and after-school activities are done for the day or before the school opens).  The cats will get used to coming around at those times, and when they're not eating they'll probably just be snoozing or hanging out near the feeding area, which will have been moved farther away.  ;)  (Good colony care practices are very important - and Alley Cat Allies has a whole Colony Care Guide!) If there are particularly sensitive areas where school officials really don't like seeing the cats (near a playground, for example), offer the officials humane deterrents!  Alley Cat Allies has really great information on how to humanely deter cats from certain areas, and actually offering officials this solution can help show that you're serious about letting the cats stay, but you're equally as serious about making the situation work for the school, too.  Here's the page explaining humane deterrents.  I will say that for the most effective results, all three of those things need to happen: TNR the cats, practice good colony care techniques in an area that is appropriate, and offer humane deterrents as necessary.

3. If there is not a caregiver, what can be done to help the situation?

If the situation has escalated to the point where trapping and removal is being threatened, it may be in the best interest of the cats to find a volunteer or team of volunteers to become the caregivers, and then do all three of the steps listed in the above paragraph.  Cats don't always need a human caregiver (especially if they have been living and thriving in an area without one so far!), but for more escalated situations like the hypothetical example in this question, it can help mitigate the tension to have a key point person or persons.  So, recruit for volunteer caregivers in any existing network of TNR people, but also branch out!  If the school is located in a neighborhood, make flyers and go door-to-door and explain the situation and what's needed.  If you're an experienced trapper, offer to help with the TNR part, and teach your new-found caregiver(s) about good colony care practices like the best location to feed and feeding on a schedule.  If multiple volunteers are found, that's great; they can 'share' the cats and rotate caregiving days.  :)  And of course, don't forget to tell school officials how this action plan is progressing, and give a realistic timeline for when they can expect to see changes in the cats' behavior.  It's good to remind folks that change prooobably won't happen overnight... but give things 90 days and then offer to come to the table again and talk about how things are going!

Hopefully this (rather long) answer helps!  Education is definitely a key factor in situations like this, and developing and following through on an action plan that will improve the situation for the cats and  for the school is important, too!

-Amanda
 
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melissa laninfa

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The citation by the health department was for a dead cat found under a portable building on the campus. Also, the health department found food bowls in several places. 

There are regular caregivers AND some unknown people feeding. The regular caregivers are discreet when feeding. I.e. pick up bowls/food after cats eat so as not to leave a mess or attract other animals.  However, there is no way to control the other feeders.

Animal Services tried to trap these cats, but weren't able to. They said people were feeding the cats and that someone was tampering with the traps. This happens all the time because people in my community are sick and tired of community cats being rounded up and killed.  My group cannot control the general public.

Animal Services has asked my group to trap and remove the cats. We DON'T do this - ever! If the individual caretakers want to try to trap and remove, that is their choice My group cannot do this because a) we don't agree with relocating cats, b) we don't have the manpower to accomplish this, c) we don't have any place for 25 cats to go, d) if we do it for this situation, Animal Services will ask us to do this everywhere so that they don't have to deal with the problem. 
 
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melissa laninfa

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All of the cats at this colony have been fixed. Occasionally, a new cat will show up and the caregivers will trap it and get it fixed as well.
 
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