How common are Siberian Cats in the US?

[Draco]

I can't seem to find a definite answer on google.

I did a phone ID thing with my cats (after seeing another post on it, I was curious), and both of them came up as Siberian, one as Siberian/Norwegian and I think Norwegian is rare in the states. No idea how accurate the ID is on the phone or if its more of a novelty thing.

Then I started comparing them to the photos on pet guides, and they seem to have the physical traits of a Siberian. Some are spot on. Rembrandt's face resembles one, and Dali's tail is on par; looks exact with rounded tip and clean floof. They both have long ear hair. Their coloring too is nearly exact.

Their personalities align with the Siberian guides as well.

If the DNA tests weren't so expensive I'd do them out of sheer curiosity.

The shelter called Rembrandt a Maine Coon mix, and honestly, I don't see much Coon in him, his face is not a Coon and he's pretty small. His body is also rounder and more stout than a Maine Coon.

What do you guys think? Potential Siberian mix? (of course I'm calling them domestics since we'd never know unless we do a test)

Note: They are still a bit scraggy from the shelter, their fur still has a lot of room to grow after being shaved and trimmed.

First two is Dali, second two is Rembrandt. Rembrandt most resembles Siberian. I believe they are littermates.

 

[mani]

It's funny the way some shelters feel a need to say a breed for a cat.. I've found it tends to be more the shelters that have other animals and they're so used to giving dog breeds. Saying Maine Coon is a bit weird.
But I can really see what you mean about Siberian.. especially Rembrandt.

They are both stunning cats.. If I found them at the shelter I'd definitely take them home.

 

[Draco]

I bit the bullet and ordered 2 DNA tests. I know it's nothing like a dog's test and isnt expansive as a dog's test, but Im curious! It would be fun. And knowing potential health risks would be a good help too.
Wonder if it would tell me if they're litter mates too

 

[AbbysMom]

Rembrandt definitely looks a bit Siberian to me. Dali has more of a Maine Coon look I think. I’m certainly not an expert though.

 

[GoldyCat]

I bit the bullet and ordered 2 DNA tests. I know it's nothing like a dog's test and isnt expansive as a dog's test, but Im curious! It would be fun. And knowing potential health risks would be a good help too.
Wonder if it would tell me if they're litter mates too

I wouldn't trust the DNA tests for breed unless they've gotten a lot better in the last couple of years. One of my friends did the DNA test on her Maine Coon just for fun. This is a pedigreed Maine Coon with at least a 5 generation pedigree. The result came back saying her was a mix of several different breeds, but Maine Coon wasn't one of them.

 

[Draco]

I wouldn't trust the DNA tests for breed unless they've gotten a lot better in the last couple of years. One of my friends did the DNA test on her Maine Coon just for fun. This is a pedigreed Maine Coon with at least a 5 generation pedigree. The result came back saying her was a mix of several different breeds, but Maine Coon wasn't one of them.

That’s disappointing result for your friend. But yea I understand the test isn’t as accurate as a dog’s test, considering a lot of cat breeds aren’t old enough and such. But I thought it would be fun anyway! The reviews on the one I got looks pretty good.
while it may not be accurate in the breeds, I do hope it would be mostly accurate with health risks!

 

[Meowmee]

Beautiful boys I would say they are dlh forest cat types. And the second kitty who I think is Rembrandt looks more Siberianesque to me. Siberians are definitely more common than Norwegian forest cats in the United States. If you look up breeders here, you’ll find some siberian breeders, and you can compare them to your guys.

I am on a group for Siberians on FB and I also have joining groups for Norwegian forest cats, and I follow a lady who has a pure bred Norwegian forest cat in Norway. They don’t all look exactly the same. Some of the nfc have a more rounded face shape like hers, rather than a more angular shape which is the typical look. The nose on NFC is a straight slope down. Whereas in MC and Siberians, it goes in from the forehead of it, and then the nose comes out.

One thing that usually stands out for the pure bred forcats is they have a lot more fluff than the domestic forest cats. My Zena who I rescued from outside is a forest cat type. He looks more Siberianesque. He’s too small to be a real forest cat but he’s I guess large because when I took him to the emergency hospital, they thought he was a really big cat, lol. But compared to Merlin he was not as large.

Here is a link for Siberian cats versus NFC.

Also the DNA test for cats state on them that they’re not supposed to be confirming breed so I don’t think you can really rely on that very much. Either have to have papers and or history- or they have to look exactly like a purebred cat which sometimes it’s obvious with breeds such as Persians, etc.

I did recognize from sight on here that someone who posted one of their cats was nfc even though she did not say that, but she confirmed it that this beautiful kitty was a pure NFC.

Siberians look like what the older style traditional Persian cats used to look like. They tend to be rounder faced and more floofy.

Canadian Cat Association | Maine Coons, Norwegian Forest Cats and Siberians - A Comparison

Canadian Cat Association - A blog of articles relating to the cat fancy - By Nancy Kerr   All three of these breeds are part of the natural working breeds. This category is

ccaafc-blog.azurewebsites.net

.

Siberian cat - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Norwegian Forest Cat - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

A lot of cat breeds developed out of cats that were naturally living in the area, which is true for the forest cats. Dogs like border collies who are working dogs are not bred to look a certain way so they can be quite varied, in fact, the ones who are bred to be in shows are not considered to be real border collies by the people who have working dogs, lol. Because the working dogs are chosen for their ability to herd and to be good working dogs, not for their looks.

Here is my Xena

 

[Draco]

Beautiful boys I would say they are dlh forest cat types. And the second kitty who I think is Rembrandt looks more Siberianesque to me. Siberians are definitely more common than Norwegian forest cats in the United States. If you look up breeders here, you’ll find some siberian breeders, and you can compare them to your guys.

I am on a group for Siberians on FB and I also have joining groups for Norwegian forest cats, and I follow a lady who has a pure bred Norwegian forest cat in Norway. They don’t all look exactly the same. Some of the nfc have a more rounded face shape like hers, rather than a more angular shape which is the typical look. The nose on NFC is a straight slope down. Whereas in MC and Siberians, it goes in from the forehead of it, and then the nose comes out.

One thing that usually stands out for the pure bred forcats is they have a lot more fluff than the domestic forest cats. My Zena who I rescued from outside is a forest cat type. He looks more Siberianesque. He’s too small to be a real forest cat but he’s I guess large because when I took him to the emergency hospital, they thought he was a really big cat, lol. But compared to Merlin he was not as large.

Here is a link for Siberian cats versus NFC.

Also the DNA test for cats state on them that they’re not supposed to be confirming breed so I don’t think you can really rely on that very much. Either have to have papers and or history- or they have to look exactly like a purebred cat which sometimes it’s obvious with breeds such as Persians, etc.

I did recognize from sight on here that someone who posted one of their cats was nfc even though she did not say that, but she confirmed it that this beautiful kitty was a pure NFC.

Siberians look like what the older style traditional Persian cats used to look like. They tend to be rounder faced and more floofy.

http://[URL]https://ccaafc-blog.azu...file is,provides the most striking difference

[/URL].

http://[URL]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberian_cat

[/URL]

http://[URL]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Forest_Cat

[/URL]

A lot of cat breeds developed out of cats that were naturally living in the area, which is true for the forest cats. Dogs like border collies who are working dogs are not bred to look a certain way so they can be quite varied, in fact, the ones who are bred to be in shows are not considered to be real border collies by the people who have working dogs, lol. Because the working dogs are chosen for their ability to herd and to be good working dogs, not for their looks.

Here is my Xena

View attachment 490927
View attachment 490928View attachment 490929

How did I miss your informative post?! I didn't even get an alert that someone posted.
Thanks for the links! I am leaning towards Siberian for Rembrandt. Comparing photos makes me think he's that (of course not a pure-breed). Dali is still a mash up. The vet told me their ages were different by a year or two; the theory they are littermates and the same breeds may be out the window (they could be brothers from a different parent, who knows).

Your babies are beautiful!

Basepaws got my DNA tests. The vet was helpful in swabbing their mouths for me. I wouldn't be able to do it on my own. I'll see in 4-6 weeks what the DNA test say- though it should be taken with a grain of salt. I know it isn't accurate, I think it's the fun of the novelty of it all. The health seems more accurate which is important too.

I never thought about attaching labels to cats like dogs. People are always labeling dogs to their breeds, or mixed breeds (goldendoodle for example). To me, it's always "a cat" unless it's clearly a breed like a Persian or Sphynx. No one calls a cat "Persphynx". This is actually opening my world a little more to cats and their history and allowing me to explore more into different breeds. I've heard of Siberian, but never looked into them until now. They are more than just "a cat", and I am glad Basepaws and other DNA places are working on establishing their history in such a way. The more people who send in DNA samples, the more accurate results can be formulated over time, I think. Makes sense to me at least

 

[Meowmee]

How did I miss your informative post?! I didn't even get an alert that someone posted.
Thanks for the links! I am leaning towards Siberian for Rembrandt. Comparing photos makes me think he's that (of course not a pure-breed). Dali is still a mash up. The vet told me their ages were different by a year or two; the theory they are littermates and the same breeds may be out the window (they could be brothers from a different parent, who knows).

Your babies are beautiful!

Basepaws got my DNA tests. The vet was helpful in swabbing their mouths for me. I wouldn't be able to do it on my own. I'll see in 4-6 weeks what the DNA test say- though it should be taken with a grain of salt. I know it isn't accurate, I think it's the fun of the novelty of it all. The health seems more accurate which is important too.

I never thought about attaching labels to cats like dogs. People are always labeling dogs to their breeds, or mixed breeds (goldendoodle for example). To me, it's always "a cat" unless it's clearly a breed like a Persian or Sphynx. No one calls a cat "Persphynx". This is actually opening my world a little more to cats and their history and allowing me to explore more into different breeds. I've heard of Siberian, but never looked into them until now. They are more than just "a cat", and I am glad Basepaws and other DNA places are working on establishing their history in such a way. The more people who send in DNA samples, the more accurate results can be formulated over time, I think. Makes sense to me at least

Thanks I often don't get notices here either. I am curious to see the dna test results.

When Zena first showed up the day he was dumped, he looked like a true Siberian, super floofy, but it took me almost 2 years to get him inside because he was scared, and his fur never went back to full floof again due to the stress probably. He is such a happy guy now, he is becoming a lap cat, but he was very fearfully aggressive when he first came in, hissing and spitting etc. He was very scared at first outside that day crying for help, but I tried to get him into a carrier and he was too scared... then he was scared off by my other outdoor cats and I thought he was gone, but later saw him on my cams in the snow, so he was still coming to eat. I thought he was a girl and named him Zena, and then never changed it... if he had been a girl, we would no doubt have had some kittens coming around.

 

[Draco]

Got a notice from basepaws that their DNA has been extracted and now being sequenced. another 2-4 weeks.
Anyone wanna place their guesses for funsies?

 

[Stella1973]

So I have attached 2 pics. The first one is how many Siberians were registered last year in TICA and CFA which would be the registries used in the US. So as you can see they are not common, no pedigree cats are common as they only makeup approximately 1-3% of ALL cats. The second pic is from Basepaws that explains what these tests actually are. They are not a breed test but a similarity test. The results will just tell you which breeds they have the most similarity to and not that they have those breeds in their ancestry. Cat breeds do not have their own specific genotype to differentiate them from the domestic population because cat breeds came from selectively breeding regular domestic cats that had features and traits that humans found interesting only about 150 years ago. The likelihood that your cats have any Siberian ancestry is slim to none, especially since Siberians have only been in the US since the 90’s. Most ethical breeders also spay/neuter their kittens before they even leave their catteries. It’s a common misconception that random bred cats are like mutts are with dogs. Cats that are mixes of breeds are even more rare than pedigreed cats. If even 3% of the population where pedigree cats there are over 70 breeds that make up that 3% making each breed median average of the cat population a tiny 0.00042%. So do we think it’s more probable that one of the 0.00042% that also happened to still be intact where left to roam or escape to mate with either another Siberian or random bred cats or do we think that 2 random bred cats mated and had a litter of longhaired black tabbies? Longhair, color, pattern, or any other trait or feature is not indicative of breed ancestry as these all came from domestic cats in the first place. Your cats are just gorgeous and don’t need to be part of any breed for that. Really all that a cat breeds are is a refinement of traits of the domestic cat with a recorded ancestry.

 

[Draco]

Thanks for the informative reply!

Of course I know Basepaws won't identify breeds, but similarities. It's really more for fun. And to dig deeper into their health as well. Seems like the health bit is more accurate which is important.

 

[Meowmee]

So I have attached 2 pics. The first one is how many Siberians were registered last year in TICA and CFA which would be the registries used in the US. So as you can see they are not common, no pedigree cats are common as they only makeup approximately 1-3% of ALL cats. The second pic is from Basepaws that explains what these tests actually are. They are not a breed test but a similarity test. The results will just tell you which breeds they have the most similarity to and not that they have those breeds in their ancestry. Cat breeds do not have their own specific genotype to differentiate them from the domestic population because cat breeds came from selectively breeding regular domestic cats that had features and traits that humans found interesting only about 150 years ago. The likelihood that your cats have any Siberian ancestry is slim to none, especially since Siberians have only been in the US since the 90’s. Most ethical breeders also spay/neuter their kittens before they even leave their catteries. It’s a common misconception that random bred cats are like mutts are with dogs. Cats that are mixes of breeds are even more rare than pedigreed cats. If even 3% of the population where pedigree cats there are over 70 breeds that make up that 3% making each breed median average of the cat population a tiny 0.00042%. So do we think it’s more probable that one of the 0.00042% that also happened to still be intact where left to roam or escape to mate with either another Siberian or random bred cats or do we think that 2 random bred cats mated and had a litter of longhaired black tabbies? Longhair, color, pattern, or any other trait or feature is not indicative of breed ancestry as these all came from domestic cats in the first place. Your cats are just gorgeous and don’t need to be part of any breed for that. Really all that a cat breeds are is a refinement of traits of the domestic cat with a recorded ancestry. View attachment 492830View attachment 492831

Looks like MC, Persians/ Exotics and Rag Dollss are the most popular breeds maybe here, in terms of registered cats at least. NfC as I suspected is even lower than Siberian. And Siamese is pretty low… I would’ve thought it would be more.

 

[Meowmee]

Thanks for the informative reply!

Of course I know Basepaws won't identify breeds, but similarities. It's really more for fun. And to dig deeper into their health as well. Seems like the health bit is more accurate which is important.

I am going to guess it will say similar to MC, and maybe Ragdoll as well as dlh. We will see I hope it doesn’t show any worrying health traits.

 

[Lennybells]

I have a Siberian, and yea your cats look like him! They got the big ear floofs and the fluffy chest. My cat is on the shorter side of the fur spectrum too. Idk do all Siberians have that crazy fluffy hair look?

 

[Gunther4ever]

Our Buddy looks very similar in the coat length, ruff and tail. I brush him out and it looks like he has been smuggling a few other cats in that fur...but it's all Buddy. He's very big fellow, chatty and very full fur coat, furry paws and furry ears..

 

[Meowmee]

I have a Siberian, and yea your cats look like him! They got the big ear floofs and the fluffy chest. My cat is on the shorter side of the fur spectrum too. Idk do all Siberians have that crazy fluffy hair look?

View attachment 493018

I think it also depends on if you brush and floof them out a bit too but most I have seen are super fluffy. Sybil, who was part NFC was super fluffy too.

 

[Draco]

they are so floofy! So soft! And warm!

 

[Draco]

So... got the results from Basepaws!
While I know it's not 100% Accurate, possibly more of a novelty thing, but, results are still surprising.

While some of us, especially me, guess Norweigan Forest Cat or Siberian.. hardly any
I didn't expect that much Maine Coon, considering I see nothing that resembles Maine Coon. They're awfully small (8 lbs and 10 lbs) and do not have the face structure. That surprised me.

Here's the results:

Dali:
Broadly Western 36.71%
Maine Coon 23.85%
Ragdoll 6.82%
American Shorthair 5.63%
Siberian 4.94%
Turkish Angora 3.68%
Persian 5.75%
Polycat 12.62% (meaning many generations mixed)

It also says he's high risk of periodontal disease, which I knew thanks to his recent vet visit with missing teeth and signs of gingivitis.

Rembrandt:
Broadly Western 34.95%
Maine Coon 23.15%
American Shorthair 10.39%
Ragdoll 2.89%
Norwegian Forest Cat 1.94%
Persian 5.75%
Bengal 3.68%
Egyptian Mau 1.38%
Polycat 6.65%

Medium risk for dental disease (he's also missing a few teeth)

Both are blood type A, which is good to know!

It also goes down the list of other diseases and they seem to be clear of those- except medium risk for blood transfusion. Hope we won't have to go there.
It also went to describe their coats. They are both carriers for black coats. The list nailed their fur type as long fur.

I wish it could tell me if they were brothers or related, I know dog DNA tests can show siblings if the owners took tests too. But seeing how similar their results are, it is still a strong possibility they are brothers.

 

[epona]

It also went to describe their coats. They are both carriers for black coats.

I'm unclear what that means, because black is dominant to other colours, so a cat doesn't "carry" black, it either is black (expressed in the dark stripes of a tabby pattern or a solid black coat), or it isn't. A genetically black cat, whether tabby or solid (including blue which is dilute version of black) can carry other colours, but other colour cats cannot carry black.
Maybe it means that they carry the solid gene which is recessive?
(And they look like if they were solid instead of tabby they would be black).