Horner's Syndrome?

[daftcat75]

Pick up some Jarrow brand sacchromyces boulardii to mix into her food. If she is taking the antibiotic by mouth, the s boulardii will help with the diarrhea that is often associated with a course of antibiotics. Antibiotics kill the good bacteria in the gut just the same as bad bacteria elsewhere. The s boulardii is a yeast based probiotic that won’t get killed by the antibiotic. Many cats like the taste too. It might even help entice her to eat this way. Mix in half a pill into her food twice a day.

Vitamin Shoppe

 

[Xena44]

UPDATE:
After calling the vet yesterday, they ended up just making another appt today to see the same vet.. I found the email address of the hospital manager and wrote her a long email explaining how unhappy I am about this whole ordeal. She called me this morning and was very adamant about setting things right and getting Maxine in to see a different vet today and also talking to the medical director about the original useless vet.
I took her in to see this other vet. She checked out her eyes and ears. The tympanic membrane was intact. She said it doesn't take much to irritate it and cause the horner’s syndrome though. The vet techs used cotton balls with a gentle cleanser to wipe off the Claro from her ear. I made sure they did it in front of me rather than take her into the back. The vet prescribed prednisone and an antibiotic. Also she gave her an anti nausea shot. She told me it could take 2 to 4 weeks for the eye to return to normal. But she wants her back in next week to check on her progress. She doesn't think she needs eye drops because Max is able to blink on her own.
Poor girl is hiding under the bed now But she did eat a little when she first came back so that's good. I'm starting the medications tomorrow morning to give her a break tonight from all the poking and prodding.
Now I just hope this will all help with getting her back to herself again. Too bad patience is not something I'm good at. Thanks again everyone for lending your support and advice! I will continue to keep updating with her progress.

That is fantastic. You really took all the right steps there. Good job sister. She ate a little. Beautiful. Have you ever heard of Rescue Remedy? You can get it on Amazon. Or a health food store.
Rescue Remedy® Pet. If you can’t find the Rescue Remedy for pets, you can use the regular human remedy. The difference between the 2 is the human one is brandy based. You can just rub a few drops on the pads or the inner hairless portion of the ear. The stuff really works for stress relief and trauma. (For people (you) too. )

 

[scoutandmaxine]

That is fantastic. You really took all the right steps there. Good job sister. She ate a little. Beautiful. Have you ever heard of Rescue Remedy? You can get it on Amazon. Or a health food store.
Rescue Remedy® Pet. If you can’t find the Rescue Remedy for pets, you can use the regular human remedy. The difference between the 2 is the human one is brandy based. You can just rub a few drops on the pads or the inner hairless portion of the ear. The stuff really works for stress relief and trauma. (For people (you) too. )

Sounds like something me and Maxine could both benefit from! Thanks for the tip.
Unfortunately she's just not herself lately, I'm assuming it's the medications. She's not eating and hiding all the time. She seems very depressed. Before, she was at least still her playful self but now she does nothing but hide or just stare. Does the prednisone cause this to happen? I'm mostly worried about the not eating. I've tried sooo many different foods and she is just not interested at all. I've called the vet again and am waiting on a call back. I can't wait for her to be off these medications. I miss my happy and hyper little girl.

 

[daftcat75]

Sounds like something me and Maxine could both benefit from! Thanks for the tip.
Unfortunately she's just not herself lately, I'm assuming it's the medications. She's not eating and hiding all the time. She seems very depressed. Before, she was at least still her playful self but now she does nothing but hide or just stare. Does the prednisone cause this to happen? I'm mostly worried about the not eating. I've tried sooo many different foods and she is just not interested at all. I've called the vet again and am waiting on a call back. I can't wait for her to be off these medications. I miss my happy and hyper little girl.

Probably the antibiotic. Prednisilone often stimulates appetite. You may need to use an anti-nausea or appetite stimulant while she's taking the antibiotic. If she doesn't eat for a couple of days, please take her in for fluids. It doesn't take long for anorexia to result in dehydration. Often the fluids also perks up their appetite.

 

[scoutandmaxine]

Probably the antibiotic. Prednisilone often stimulates appetite. You may need to use an anti-nausea or appetite stimulant while she's taking the antibiotic. If she doesn't eat for a couple of days, please take her in for fluids. It doesn't take long for anorexia to result in dehydration. Often the fluids also perks up their appetite.

The vet mentioned an appetite stimulant but didn't think we needed to go there yet. Maxine will take one lick of wet food and refuse anymore. I got her the dry food she used to love (but caused her to gain a lot of weight) and she ate maybe 2 bites and thats it. So it seems like she wants to eat, she's just not. And I've been worried sick all day because like you said, it doesn't take long for her inappetence to become a big problem. I'm still wanting on a call from the vet. I'm going to ask that we try the appetite stimulant, although I hate giving her more medicine on top of what she's already on. And hopefully this will not require bringing her in bc the stress from the vet visits are not helping her at all.

 

[daftcat75]

The vet mentioned an appetite stimulant but didn't think we needed to go there yet. Maxine will take one lick of wet food and refuse anymore. I got her the dry food she used to love (but caused her to gain a lot of weight) and she ate maybe 2 bites and thats it. So it seems like she wants to eat, she's just not. And I've been worried sick all day because like you said, it doesn't take long for her inappetence to become a big problem. I'm still wanting on a call from the vet. I'm going to ask that we try the appetite stimulant, although I hate giving her more medicine on top of what she's already on. And hopefully this will not require bringing her in bc the stress from the vet visits are not helping her at all.

Ask for Mirtaz. It is a transdermal form of mirtazapine. Besides the ease of using transdermal medicines, you can also trim the dose more easily by how long a ribbon you squirt out. Discuss this with the vet before you trim the dose on your own. The instructions for transdermal medicine will tell you to switch ears. I would just avoid the infected ear altogether.

Does Maxine lick her lips rapidly? That's a sign of nausea. It could be that she doesn't need the appetite stimulant as much as an anti-nausea. This would be an easy one to check. But it would require bringing her in. You could have the vet give her a shot of Cerenia (and subcutaneous fluids as long as she's going in.) If that restarts her eating, it's nausea and you should be able to pick up a prescription for Cerenia pills. Alternatively, you can pick up the pills without giving her a shot first. Ironically, though, Cerenia does cause anorexia in some cats. So if Cerenia doesn't restore her appetite, that doesn't necessarily rule out nausea. You may have to give both Cerenia and an appetite stimulant together.

I hate to say it. But Claro may have been the best for her because it was a one-time application. Also, ear infections are terribly difficult to treat with systemic antibiotics because the ear is technically outside the body.

 

[scoutandmaxine]

Ask for Mirtaz. It is a transdermal form of mirtazapine. Besides the ease of using transdermal medicines, you can also trim the dose more easily by how long a ribbon you squirt out. Discuss this with the vet before you trim the dose on your own. The instructions for transdermal medicine will tell you to switch ears. I would just avoid the infected ear altogether.

Does Maxine lick her lips rapidly? That's a sign of nausea. It could be that she doesn't need the appetite stimulant as much as an anti-nausea. This would be an easy one to check. But it would require bringing her in. You could have the vet give her a shot of Cerenia (and subcutaneous fluids as long as she's going in.) If that restarts her eating, it's nausea and you should be able to pick up a prescription for Cerenia pills. Alternatively, you can pick up the pills without giving her a shot first. Ironically, though, Cerenia does cause anorexia in some cats. So if Cerenia doesn't restore her appetite, that doesn't necessarily rule out nausea. You may have to give both Cerenia and an appetite stimulant together.

I hate to say it. But Claro may have been the best for her because it was a one-time application. Also, ear infections are terribly difficult to treat with systemic antibiotics because the ear is technically outside the body.

I've tried the mirtaz with my cat Scout, they used it after her dental surgery just once and it definitely got her eating but she was also sooo hyper and crazy restless for maybe 48 hrs. It was interesting lol. Might have been due to the pain meds as well. But it worked and I am going to ask for that if I ever get a call back. I don't know exactly what kind it was, but they did give her a shot of anti nausea when I took her in on Sunday. She was able to eat a few bites of food afterwards but then back to denying food after that. The vet told me the Claro probably wasn't the cause of Horners and it was more likely due to irritation from the ear cleaning. So who knows. I just want her to eat and play again.

 

[Xena44]

Sounds like something me and Maxine could both benefit from! Thanks for the tip.
Unfortunately she's just not herself lately, I'm assuming it's the medications. She's not eating and hiding all the time. She seems very depressed. Before, she was at least still her playful self but now she does nothing but hide or just stare. Does the prednisone cause this to happen? I'm mostly worried about the not eating. I've tried sooo many different foods and she is just not interested at all. I've called the vet again and am waiting on a call back. I can't wait for her to be off these medications. I miss my happy and hyper little girl.

Pred usually makes critters hungry but there is the atypical reaction at times. How long has it been since she’s eaten anything? Even a little. I do agree with daftcat75 about the appetite stimulant. Maybe reduce the stated dose to try to reduce the restlessness? If they gave her a Cerenia injection, it can also cause her to be a little tired. Did they give that injection in the room with you? Or do they take her back for that. Because if it was Cerenia, that stings like the dickens. There are other anti-nausea medication‘s that don’t sting like that. Is she drinking? Because dehydration is definitely a concern. What antibiotic is she on? Use of them can very well be associated with nausea. Or inappetence or lethargy . I know you say that she’s kind of hiding under the bed, does she respond to you if you take her out and soothe her, is she open to that? And unfortunately feeling lousy really sucks and sometimes one just has to go through it to get to the other side and feel better. It’s your mom job to keep your eyes on her and make sure that the course is stayed and stay in touch with your vet about any changes Or concerns.

 

[Xena44]

Ask for Mirtaz. It is a transdermal form of mirtazapine. Besides the ease of using transdermal medicines, you can also trim the dose more easily by how long a ribbon you squirt out. Discuss this with the vet before you trim the dose on your own. The instructions for transdermal medicine will tell you to switch ears. I would just avoid the infected ear altogether.

Does Maxine lick her lips rapidly? That's a sign of nausea. It could be that she doesn't need the appetite stimulant as much as an anti-nausea. This would be an easy one to check. But it would require bringing her in. You could have the vet give her a shot of Cerenia (and subcutaneous fluids as long as she's going in.) If that restarts her eating, it's nausea and you should be able to pick up a prescription for Cerenia pills. Alternatively, you can pick up the pills without giving her a shot first. Ironically, though, Cerenia does cause anorexia in some cats. So if Cerenia doesn't restore her appetite, that doesn't necessarily rule out nausea. You may have to give both Cerenia and an appetite stimulant together.

I hate to say it. But Claro may have been the best for her because it was a one-time application. Also, ear infections are terribly difficult to treat with systemic antibiotics because the ear is technically outside the body.

Tho I don’t agree with the use of the Claro. But totally agreed about the use of the antibiotics. I would think the vet is making sure all bases are covered since they are trying to clean up the other vet‘s mess and they want to be sure this kitty has her issues addressed ASAP.

 

[daftcat75]

Tho I don’t agree with the use of the Claro. But totally agreed about the use of the antibiotics. I would think the vet is making sure all bases are covered since they are trying to clean up the other vet‘s mess and they want to be sure this kitty has her issues addressed ASAP.

I don’t agree with the initial use of Claro. But since it was already given, they can’t un-ring that bell. They can’t flush out Horner’s. The “damage” was already done. Though I believe the cleaning itself was far more likely to be the cause of the Horner’s rather than the Claro. By flushing it, now she needs a systemic antibiotic for as much as a month or more. Because ear infections are difficult to treat with systemic antibiotics since the ear is outside the body as far as circulation goes.

Perhaps scoutandmaxine can ask the vet about a meds holiday. That ear has been cleaned twice now. Perhaps Tresaderm ear drops would be better tolerated than a systemic antibiotic and an oral steroid. And an anti-nausea. And an appetite stimulant...?

Or maybe something gentler. Discuss this with the good vet before changing her medicine around. But something that gave my Krista relief when her ears were bothering her was chamomile tea brewed then cooled and a tablespoon of apple cider vinegar added to this. I took a cotton ball (actually a makeup round folded into a triangle because cotton balls give me the nails-on-chalkboard tactile willies! ), sopped up some tea, and gently squeezed out a few drops into the top of her ear. I would let her shake it inside. Whether it was drops, tea, or later transdermal medicines, she hated having anything go in her ears. But this tea frequently gave her visible relief afterward. Her head-shaking and ear-scratching would subside for awhile.

If Maxine was doing alright, appetite and energy, aside from the eye, before this last visit, then maybe she’s just being over-treated. Sometimes vets get locked into a diagnosis and treatment plan that they can’t see the forest for the trees. If she was eating and active before the antibiotic and steroid, then maybe this isn’t a rabbit hole that needs to be explored.

 

[scoutandmaxine]

I don’t agree with the initial use of Claro. But since it was already given, they can’t un-ring that bell. They can’t flush out Horner’s. The “damage” was already done. Though I believe the cleaning itself was far more likely to be the cause of the Horner’s rather than the Claro. By flushing it, now she needs a systemic antibiotic for as much as a month or more. Because ear infections are difficult to treat with systemic antibiotics since the ear is outside the body as far as circulation goes.

Perhaps scoutandmaxine can ask the vet about a meds holiday. That ear has been cleaned twice now. Perhaps Tresaderm ear drops would be better tolerated than a systemic antibiotic and an oral steroid. And an anti-nausea. And an appetite stimulant...?

Or maybe something gentler. Discuss this with the good vet before changing her medicine around. But something that gave my Krista relief when her ears were bothering her was chamomile tea brewed then cooled and a tablespoon of apple cider vinegar added to this. I took a cotton ball (actually a makeup round folded into a triangle because cotton balls give me the nails-on-chalkboard tactile willies! ), sopped up some tea, and gently squeezed out a few drops into the top of her ear. I would let her shake it inside. Whether it was drops, tea, or later transdermal medicines, she hated having anything go in her ears. But this tea frequently gave her visible relief afterward. Her head-shaking and ear-scratching would subside for awhile.

If Maxine was doing alright, appetite and energy, aside from the eye, before this last visit, then maybe she’s just being over-treated. Sometimes vets get locked into a diagnosis and treatment plan that they can’t see the forest for the trees. If she was eating and active before the antibiotic and steroid, then maybe this isn’t a rabbit hole that needs to be explored.

I agree about the overuse of medications. Its making me even more nervous. The vet prescribed the transdermal mirtazapine. I picked it up but since she ate a couple bites of dry food,, I'm going to hold off and see how she does tomorrow. She wasn't eating well before the medications though so not sure if its gotten worse or just never got any better. I also hate the idea of putting anything else in her poor ears. Thankfully she has not scratched or shaken her head at all lately. She has a recheck appt next week, I'm hoping by then most of these symptoms have passed and as for her ear infection, I'm at a point where I'm terrified of the vets treating that at all anymore. They just seem to make things worse. The antibiotic is for 10 days only and after tomorrow, the prednisone is only once a day instead of twice. So I'm keeping fingers crossed that she starts showing way more progress soon.

 

[daftcat75]

A couple bites of dry isn’t enough. I would start the Mirtaz tomorrow. Unless you want to be up later tonight when she’s restless with the mirtz.

Krista reacted to mirtz like I spiked her drink. She would get a rush and would roam and meow incessantly if left to her own devices. We both figured out that she just wanted to sit in my lap and purr her head off and get some head scritches until the rush subsided (30-45 minutes?). Then she would leap down and clear the plates. I took my mirtz duties with her very seriously.

 

[scoutandmaxine]

Pred usually makes critters hungry but there is the atypical reaction at times. How long has it been since she’s eaten anything? Even a little. I do agree with daftcat75 about the appetite stimulant. Maybe reduce the stated dose to try to reduce the restlessness? If they gave her a Cerenia injection, it can also cause her to be a little tired. Did they give that injection in the room with you? Or do they take her back for that. Because if it was Cerenia, that stings like the dickens. There are other anti-nausea medication‘s that don’t sting like that. Is she drinking? Because dehydration is definitely a concern. What antibiotic is she on? Use of them can very well be associated with nausea. Or inappetence or lethargy . I know you say that she’s kind of hiding under the bed, does she respond to you if you take her out and soothe her, is she open to that? And unfortunately feeling lousy really sucks and sometimes one just has to go through it to get to the other side and feel better. It’s your mom job to keep your eyes on her and make sure that the course is stayed and stay in touch with your vet about any changes Or concerns.

I'm not sure what kind of anti nausea medication they gave her. It was a shot, they did it in the room with me. Not sure how long it lasts but that was on Sunday. The antibiotic is Clavamox. She does surprisingly well taking the liquid medications. I think its the vet visits that are causing her to hide because its been a few days now and she is getting better at coming out and being her lovey dovey self with me. And great news this morning, she ate all her breakfast!!! I haven't even given her the mirtaz yet so I'm super happy, feel like dancing lol. She hasnt ate breakfast since this whole ordeal started so this is great. Her eye seems to fluctuate between looking better and then looking the same as before. Not sure if that is a good sign or not. But now that she is eating, I feel a lot better and more hopeful that we're getting past this. Its been a very expensive and anxiety inducing experience. But as long as she gets better and back to her old self, that's all that matters.

 

[Xena44]

I don’t agree with the initial use of Claro. But since it was already given, they can’t un-ring that bell. They can’t flush out Horner’s. The “damage” was already done. Though I believe the cleaning itself was far more likely to be the cause of the Horner’s rather than the Claro. By flushing it, now she needs a systemic antibiotic for as much as a month or more. Because ear infections are difficult to treat with systemic antibiotics since the ear is outside the body as far as circulation goes.

Perhaps scoutandmaxine can ask the vet about a meds holiday. That ear has been cleaned twice now. Perhaps Tresaderm ear drops would be better tolerated than a systemic antibiotic and an oral steroid. And an anti-nausea. And an appetite stimulant...?

Or maybe something gentler. Discuss this with the good vet before changing her medicine around. But something that gave my Krista relief when her ears were bothering her was chamomile tea brewed then cooled and a tablespoon of apple cider vinegar added to this. I took a cotton ball (actually a makeup round folded into a triangle because cotton balls give me the nails-on-chalkboard tactile willies! ), sopped up some tea, and gently squeezed out a few drops into the top of her ear. I would let her shake it inside. Whether it was drops, tea, or later transdermal medicines, she hated having anything go in her ears. But this tea frequently gave her visible relief afterward. Her head-shaking and ear-scratching would subside for awhile.

If Maxine was doing alright, appetite and energy, aside from the eye, before this last visit, then maybe she’s just being over-treated. Sometimes vets get locked into a diagnosis and treatment plan that they can’t see the forest for the trees. If she was eating and active before the antibiotic and steroid, then maybe this isn’t a rabbit hole that needs to be explored.

Totally agreed. And I have heard positive things about the use of chamomile tea and avc in the ears. I’ll put that in my mental files. And also yes on the tresaderm (pocketed for about 10 min to warm it to body temp before using). Systemic antibiotics for 10 d can be hard on a kitty. I'm not understanding why flushing the ear would then require a 30 day course of antIbiotic.

 

[daftcat75]

Totally agreed. And I have heard positive things about the use of chamomile tea and avc in the ears. I’ll put that in my mental files. And also yes on the tresaderm (pocketed for about 10 min to warm it to body temp before using). Systemic antibiotics for 10 d can be hard on a kitty. I'm not understanding why flushing the ear would then require a 30 day course of antIbiotic.

I’m just remembering Krista’s last ear infection. But that was also middle ear. Drops wouldn’t reach there unless the eardrum was intentionally punctured. No. She had a VBO surgery where they went up through her jaw to drain her middle ear. Then she was on a 30 day course of antibiotics because nothing topical could be used instead. And the middle ear is still technically outside the body. Krista was having a terrible time with the antibiotics and we stopped a few days short of 30, with her surgeon’s blessing, because it was more important she retained what little weight she had left than to finish that course.

Her first ear infection, a couple years prior, was treated simply with a cleaning and Tresaderm for some number of days.

The ear infection I posted about earlier, with her Horner’s pics, that cleaning ruptured her eardrum. Nothing was going in that ear until it healed. She was already on IV fluids and antibiotics for a liver infection. She got about ten days of that. She came home with a feeding tube. If I had any more antibiotics left to give her, they went down the tube.

So many ear infections. Poor girl. I didn’t put it all together and the vets kept telling me otherwise. But I believe they were all related to allergens in her diet.

 

[Xena44]

I’m just remembering Krista’s last ear infection. But that was also middle ear. Drops wouldn’t reach there unless the eardrum was intentionally punctured. No. She had a VBO surgery where they went up through her jaw to drain her middle ear. Then she was on a 30 day course of antibiotics because nothing topical could be used instead. And the middle ear is still technically outside the body. Krista was having a terrible time with the antibiotics and we stopped a few days short of 30, with her surgeon’s blessing, because it was more important she retained what little weight she had left than to finish that course.

Her first ear infection, a couple years prior, was treated simply with a cleaning and Tresaderm for some number of days.

The ear infection I posted about earlier, with her Horner’s pics, that cleaning ruptured her eardrum. Nothing was going in that ear until it healed. She was already on IV fluids and antibiotics for a liver infection. She got about ten days of that. She came home with a feeding tube. If I had any more antibiotics left to give her, they went down the tube.

So many ear infections. Poor girl. I didn’t put it all together and the vets kept telling me otherwise. But I believe they were all related to allergens in her diet.

Ah. Yes. I know one can’t use anything in the ear if the ear drum is punctured. I misunderstood when you were saying that and thought you meant nothing in the ear at all. I gotcha now. Ya know, I’m so sorry your kitty went thru that. I’m glad she fared well ultimately.

 

[scoutandmaxine]

Update:
We're almost at the 4 week mark and unfortunately Maxine is starting to scratch at her poor ear non stop. Her eye is not fully back to normal although sometimes it looks much better and sometimes it looks like she cannot dilate it at all. She is eating fine and acting normal. But just these past couple days she has been digging at her ear constantly. I feel so bad for her. And I feel terrified to take her to that vet since I've spent nearly $500 with NO results and just more problems. Idk what to do at this point.

 

[Xena44]

Update:
We're almost at the 4 week mark and unfortunately Maxine is starting to scratch at her poor ear non stop. Her eye is not fully back to normal although sometimes it looks much better and sometimes it looks like she cannot dilate it at all. She is eating fine and acting normal. But just these past couple days she has been digging at her ear constantly. I feel so bad for her. And I feel terrified to take her to that vet since I've spent nearly $500 with NO results and just more problems. Idk what to do at this point.

How do you,feel about putting any medication in her ears? I’m thinking zymox as it’s an enzymatic solution vs an antibiotic anti fungal like most ear medications. I’ve used it I’m Jethro I never had success with it. Part of the beauty of it is you don’t clean the ear, you don’t have to do anything just instead of medication.

 

[scoutandmaxine]

How do you,feel about putting any medication in her ears? I’m thinking zymox as it’s an enzymatic solution vs an antibiotic anti fungal like most ear medications. I’ve used it I’m Jethro I never had success with it. Part of the beauty of it is you don’t clean the ear, you don’t have to do anything just instead of medication.

I was actually looking into something like that. At the very least, something to help the itchiness. There are a couple different kinds of zymox though and I'm not sure which one would be best?

 

[daftcat75]

I was actually looking into something like that. At the very least, something to help the itchiness. There are a couple different kinds of zymox though and I'm not sure which one would be best?

Are both her eardrums still intact? I don’t remember. But I thought you said one may be ruptured. Please check with your vet before putting stuff in her ears if you’re not certain both eardrums are intact. If they are intact and the vet says it’s okay to use a solution in her ears, brew a cup of chamomile tea. Allow it to cool to lukewarm. Add a tablespoon of apple cider vinegar. Soak some up with a cotton ball or makeup pad and squeeze a few drops into the top of her ear. Let her shake it in. It’s a natural anti-microbial solution that is also soothing and you don’t need a prescription for it.

There may be a dietary component to her ear infection. Krista got ear infections if she ate too much fish. Rawz makes excellent single protein pates that are very useful for figuring out food allergies because they don’t mix proteins. Does she also eat dry food? And does she throw up hairballs? It is possible the ear infections are the tip of the spear. If it is a food allergy, there may also be inflammation in her gut. That might explain why she seems off. An ultrasound can confirm that. Though I don’t know if you want to go down that rabbit hole yet. Of course, vestibular disease or Horner’s can also leave her looking/feeling “off”.

When did the vet want to recheck her ears?