Homemade Diets -- meats question

[pumpkin2]

Quick background -- my wife and I have been vegans for a few months now. For me, it was an ethical decision, and I wanted to cut out all meat products from my life. Obviously, with two cats, this was not possible, but I am hoping for a homemade food that will minimize the demand for animal meat.

I plan on following this recipe, please let me know if there are more up-to-date, or better diets out there. Also, I may do a quick 2-3 minute boil on the food. I do not have anything against cooked food.

http://feline-nutrition.org/nutrition/making-raw-cat-food-for-do-it-yourselfers

Now, I have access to whole ground rabbbit from the pet food supplier, as well as access to a very good butcher. I am hoping to make rabbit and chicken meal in rotation, but I am hoping to use as much "by-product" as possible. Basically, anything that I can get from the butcher which would not go to human sale, but is completely fine for cats to eat, once ground, in place of chicken or rabbit meat. I really want to minimize the demand for chicken and rabbit farming -- I cannot stress that enough.

Any guidelines on which parts can be used as substitutes, and a good ratio? For example, is it safe to make a diet 100% of meats that are not "chicken thigh, etc"? 50%? 10%? I have not been able to find anything on this, as most people seem keen on feeding their cats chicken thighs and similar cuts...

Thanks.

 

[stephanie42]

i think it's great that you're considering your cats' diets even though you're a vegan.  cats are obligate carnivores and they require meat for health.  i think the recipe you linked to is a great starting point.  do you have a grinder that you'll be grinding all of your own meat/bones?  

feeding chicken necks may be a good option for you.  they're typically a by product and are suitable raw for cats.  most info i've seen says you can feed a chicken neck a day as a small meal.  the necks are bone heavy so you may not need as much bone in their food.  just be sure to only feed RAW bones.  if you use chicken necks, you might want to remove some more of the bone from the thighs, or omit the bone altogether and add a bit of calcium from another source - like eggshells.  instead of throwing the eggshells out, rinse them and lightly toast them to dry them a bit.  i use a mortar and pestle and grind them up fine (less dust this way, but you can also pop them in a food processor to powder them).  and you can use the whole egg if you cook it lightly; much information points to raw egg whites being not great for cats, so i lightly scramble my eggs and put them through the grinder with the chicken. 

also - the psyllium fiber, not really necessary for the cats.  it will bulk up their stool and *may* help them during the transition to raw/home cooked, but i never bothered.  

if you are going to cook the meat, i recommend baking and reserving the cooking liquid to add back into the food.  i put my chicken thighs in a pyrex dish, cover it tightly with foil, and bake them at 300 degrees for about 20 minutes.  adding back in the cooking liquid adds back in some of the nutrients typically lost during cooking.

i noticed that recipe mentioned freezing in ice cube trays - this has NEVER worked for me, no matter how i try.  raw, cooked, partially cooked... never works.  i portion out my food in ziplock bags and flatten them for easy storage; if i had the storage, i'd buy reusable plastic containers to portion out two day's worth of food at a time for my three cats.  

ETA: if you have local farms, perhaps you could ask about their practices for raising/slaughtering, or see about purchasing their spent hens?  issue with that is you may have to dress them yourself.  i called my local farm and they were happy to sell me their spent hens, but they would sell me THE ENTIRE HEN, feathers and all.  i have no idea what to do with that.  maybe for a nominal charge, your local farm might dress them for you?  

 

[pumpkin2]

Thanks so much, this is a great deal of advice! I will speak with the butcher about my options.

My primary concern is balancing the calcium/phosphorus...we had a diabetic cat before, and it did not end well, despite us feeding only the highest quality wet. She ended up with a potassium deficiency, high levels of other minerals...etc this is my biggest concern, and I would like to avoid frequent blood tests just to make sure the pH and other levels are balanced...

 

[mschauer]

Chicken necks should only be fed sparingly. They are very high in bone and not much else.  They would not be an appropriate substitute for the chicken thighs in the recipe you posted. In fact using them in that recipe would result in a dangerously unbalanced food.

If you are concerned about feeding a properly balanced diet you might be interested in some of the recipes in this thread:

Raw Recipes Thread

Some of mine include a nutritional analysis.

Any guidelines on which parts can be used as substitutes, and a good ratio? For example, is it safe to make a diet 100% of meats that are not "chicken thigh, etc"? 50%? 10%? I have not been able to find anything on this, as most people seem keen on feeding their cats chicken thighs and similar cuts...

My primary concern is balancing the calcium/phosphorus...we had a diabetic cat before, and it did not end well, despite us feeding only the highest quality wet. She ended up with a potassium deficiency, high levels of other minerals...etc this is my biggest concern, and I would like to avoid frequent blood tests just to make sure the pH and other levels are balanced...

Are you planning on using bone-in parts or boneless? If you use bone-in it is very difficult to determine the calcium/phosphorus ratio. If you use boneless parts plus a calcium supplement it is a relatively easy matter to determine the calcium/phosphorus ratio.

Generally any meat can be used. Chicken is usually the most accessible to people. A variety of muscle meats and organs is best.

 

[pumpkin2]

 
Chicken necks should only be fed sparingly. They are very high in bone and not much else.  They would not be an appropriate substitute for the chicken thighs in the recipe you posted. In fact using them in that recipe would result in a dangerously unbalanced food.

If you are concerned about feeding a properly balanced diet you might be interested in some of the recipes in this thread:

Raw Recipes Thread

Some of mine include a nutritional analysis.

Are you planning on using bone-in parts or boneless? If you use bone-in it is very difficult to determine the calcium/phosphorus ratio. If you use boneless parts plus a calcium supplement it is a relatively easy matter to determine the calcium/phosphorus ratio.

Generally any meat can be used. Chicken is usually the most accessible to people. A variety of muscle meats and organs is best.

Thanks for the information. I am not sure about what type of meat I will be using yet, I have to consult with the butcher.

For the rabbit, it comes as "whole ground rabbit", so I assume no additional calcium should be required?

 

[mschauer]

Originally Posted by Pumpkin2  

Thanks for the information. I am not sure about what type of meat I will be using yet, I have to consult with the butcher.

For the rabbit, it comes as "whole ground rabbit", so I assume no additional calcium should be required?

Yes, whole animal grinds include bone so no calcium supplementation is needed. Be careful of rabbit though. They can be very high in bone which can cause constipation. Many people "dilute" whole rabbit with boneless meat.

 

[pumpkin2]

So, in speaking with the butcher, they are not really able to provide much outside of what they sell for human consumption. We have given up on making our own food for now. We are looking for a reasonable commercial raw food in Canada. Any suggestions?

We have Big Country Raw for sale at our boutique pet store, but I'm a bit unsure about how balanced it actually is. For example, here are some of their cat foods: http://www.bigcountryrawstore.com/Feline-Formula-s/1822.htm 

I am concerned that there are no supplements, only animal products. Is that OK? They do list the nutritional information, was hoping someone could help me interpret it, or offer other suggestions.