Helping my kitten keep his voice

aarond

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A month ago I adopted great little 3 month old kitten (now 4 months) whom I named Pierre. I isolated him in his room, and followed the slow introduction process. It's gone great so far! My 1 y/o resident cat (Rodger) and he get along, eat together, and even play with one another!

However, as of today my little Pierre is losing his voice. Why? Because he doesn't like being locked up in his room anymore. Pierre yowls and meows for a solid 10 minutes before he stops. It's gotten to the point where I can hear his voice being lost. He wants to play with his new friend, and have fun in the rest of his new home. The problem is this:

#1: I want to continue the slow introductions to keep my resident cat contempt. Slowly increasing the amount of time they spend together.

#2: Rodger plays too rough. He's much bigger than my kitten and is a former stray/feral. I'm pretty confident they're playing. There's no claws or folded ears, it's not one-sided when there's chasing, and Pierre isn't afraid to initiate the play. They're both approachable and don't mind interacting with me as they play.

Rodger tends to bite too hard in general, both when playing with Pierre and with myself. He likes to give me love bites and bites when grooming me, but it's definitely too hard. I've worked with him to keep it more gentle, and it has worked a little, but when he gets riled up with Pierre he isn't being soft. No blood, but it's enough to make Pierre hiss and run away. This usually happens after a few minutes of softer play.

Does anyone have suggestions on how to solve this hard biting and/or meowing problem? I don't mind the sound of Pierre meowing, I'm just sad that he's losing his voice because of it. If we can solve this biting issue, it would help him get out of his room more often, and permanently sooner.

In case people ask:
Sexes: Both Male
Ages: 4 months and 1 year
Neutered: Yes, both are neutered
Playtime: Both cats are getting 15-30 mins separate play time daily.
 

Furballsmom

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Hi! Regarding his voice, when he stops yelling, his voice should recover after a little while :)

You're right to be careful that the older cat doesn't play too roughly. A little time and your baby will grow and should be better able to defend himself ;)
 

Jcatbird

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You could try giving the kitten something to listen to in the room. There is music for cats online or you could try tv or radio on softly. A little private snuggle time as soon as he is put in the room might help to calm the meowing.
The hard biting of the older cat takes diligent reminding on your part. As a previous feral, rough play is natural to him. You’ve been doing great to get him to ease off. Just stick to it. If what you are doing has helped, you’re doing it right! Often when a feral was weaned too early or did not learn soft play as a kitten then they don’t understand that nipping hurts. Rodger doesn’t know his own strength. Ow and no ,said gently , are good words. He may begin to associate that with you pulling your hands back from him when he bites. Don’t use your hands as play items.
When Pierre gets older, he will be better able to defend himself against biting. For now, you will need to continue to act as a safe buffer. He may help to teach Rodger that biting is unacceptable when he gets to be a big kitty. It sounds like ,despite little Pierre missing everyone in the room and meowing, all is going very well. Good job! Please do update us on the kitties. It’s nice to meet you all! Welcome!:welcomesign:
 

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#1: I want to continue the slow introductions to keep my resident cat contempt. Slowly increasing the amount of time they spend together.

#2: Rodger plays too rough. He's much bigger than my kitten and is a former stray/feral. I'm pretty confident they're playing. There's no claws or folded ears, it's not one-sided when there's chasing, and Pierre isn't afraid to initiate the play. They're both approachable and don't mind interacting with me as they play.
Hi A aarond ...would you be able to tell us how long do Rodger and Pierre play with each other, together, right now.?
Rodger tends to bite too hard in general, both when playing with Pierre and with myself. He likes to give me love bites and bites when grooming me, but it's definitely too hard. I've worked with him to keep it more gentle, and it has worked a little, but when he gets riled up with Pierre he isn't being soft. No blood, but it's enough to make Pierre hiss and run away. This usually happens after a few minutes of softer play.
To stop Rodger from biting you, ...you're going to have to only play with him using cat toys, toy wands, long flat material/ flat material straps/belt/thick rope, ping pong balls, scrunched paper, or other interactive toys where only the toy is allowed in Rodger's mouth....never your hands or any part of your body, arms, legs, feet etc.

When Rodger does bite Pierre, and make him hiss and run away....does Pierre end up coming back?
Or is he too scared?
Does Rodger also make Pierre cry or meow?
 
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aarond

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Hi A aarond ...would you be able to tell us how long do Rodger and Pierre play with each other, together, right now.?

To stop Rodger from biting you, ...you're going to have to only play with him using cat toys, toy wands, long flat material/ flat material straps/belt/thick rope, ping pong balls, scrunched paper, or other interactive toys where only the toy is allowed in Rodger's mouth....never your hands or any part of your body, arms, legs, feet etc.

When Rodger does bite Pierre, and make him hiss and run away....does Pierre end up coming back?
Or is he too scared?
Does Rodger also make Pierre cry or meow?
To be clear as I stated originally, Rodger rarely bites me when playing or otherwise. I only play with wand toys, not my hands. The bites I’ve described are when he’s being affectionate and grooming me. The only time he legitimately bites me is when I touch his belly or annoy him, but that’s understandable and very rare. He does not consider my hands or body as something to play with.

The two of them will play for 5-10 minutes. 20 at most. Pierre will run away and hide under something for 30 seconds to a minute, then come back out and try to play some more. He hasn’t hid for longer than a minute. It’s usually short.

If Rodger goes to his hiding spot, Pierre does hiss and swipe at him. Rodger leaves him alone and Pierre comes out after a bit.There’s no crying or meowing, but Pierre sometimes “screams” when he struggles to get out while they’re wrestling to run away. This is usually not the case, maybe only 20% of the time.
 

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Just in case this helps regarding their time together although I think you've diagnosed things, if you haven't already you could take a look at videos online that show cats playing, vs cats fighting.
This below might help as well, but mostly I think keeping an eye out for your little ones safety is very wise, and necessary after reading your description again, until he grows enough to be better able to defend himself.

Are My Cats Fighting Or Playing? – Cat Articles
 
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Hellenww

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The two of them will play for 5-10 minutes. 20 at most. Pierre will run away and hide under something for 30 seconds to a minute, then come back out and try to play some more. He hasn’t hid for longer than a minute. It’s usually short.
Then Rodger probably isn't hurting him badly. If he were Pierre would not come back and definitly not so quickly. It's also normal for kittens to scream and complain when the older has the upper hand. As long as Pierre isn't hiding or afraid of Rodger then everything is good with them. If they are letting each other rest when they need to it's probably ok to let them be together overnight. If that goes well for several nights then it's probaly ok to leave them together when you are out as long as your home is kitten proofed. They sound like they are getting along really great.
 
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aarond

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Then Rodger probably isn't hurting him badly. If he were Pierre would not come back and definitly not so quickly. It's also normal for kittens to scream and complain when the older has the upper hand. As long as Pierre isn't hiding or afraid of Rodger then everything is good with them. If they are letting each other rest when they need to it's probably ok to let them be together overnight. If that goes well for several nights then it's probaly ok to leave them together when you are out as long as your home is kitten proofed. They sound like they are getting along really great.
Thanks for the insight! They’re letting each other rest, and this morning they were calm around each other with only light play. I’ll keep them separate at night for the next week, then see how it goes.
 
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aarond

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So, unfortunately what started as friendly and rough play has turned into some aggression. Pierre is starting to be more cautious and vocal during their tussles. He will hiss and swipe his paw, but Rodger doesn’t always get the signal.

Sometimes he stops, but Rodger will general proceed to bite wrestle and bite him. Pierre will respond with his ears back trying to push Rodger off of him, screaming, kicking, biting, and hissing.

Rodger is clearly playing up until this. He gets annoyed and doubles down, trying to pin Pierre down and biting him. Rodger is not growling or hissing, and his posture and demeanor are clearly playful prior to this.

There’s no aggression outside of this point of play. They groom each other, touch noses often, sleep near each other, etc. Rodger even meows at me when he can’t find Pierre. He has no problem sharing food, litter box, etc. No growls or anything.

Not sure what I can do here, or if there’s even anything I can do other than wait until Pierre gets bigger and keep them separated when unsupervised.
 

Furballsmom

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I think you're ok, if it were me I might pick Rodger up when he gets super rough.
 
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