Help with these test results / Clostridium infection not going away?

[daftcat75]

I can’t tell you whether or how long he should be on antibiotics. But if his poops are mostly solid now, why risk going backwards while killing all the good bacteria in his gut too? Now if his poops are still more liquid than solid, then you have a stubborn bug and it makes little difference that antibiotics kill the good bacteria too. The bad bacteria will have to go and that’s the price to pay.

In the meantime, you can start him on the s boulardii as soon as you get some. And you can keep him on it as long as you think he needs it. The s boulardii won’t have a deleterious effect on his gut micro biome like the metro would.

 

[daftcat75]

Thank you for your help, yesterday I went to buy Jarrow S. Boulardii and gave him 1/4, and this morning his stools were solid. Since starting Metrodinazole last week he has definitely improved. Today the vet should call me to discuss the antibiotics/therapy they want to give my kitten, so we’ll see. For when he’s done, is Proviable DC a good probiotic to rebuild good flora? Thank you!

S boulardii can work that quickly. But it doesn’t colonize like regular probiotics. That means its effect will wear off when you stop giving it. One good poop doesn’t make for a recovery. I’d plan on giving him the s boulardii for a month. You can work out the dose based on the litter box results. Perhaps a 1/4 twice a day for maintenance or four times a day for actively battling the loose stools. Proviable is a good brand of probiotics.

 

[JBMMBJ]

My 14 week old kitten was diagnosed with a Clostridium Infection, and he was on two courses of Metronidazole, the first one for 5 days with a very low dose, and the second one for a total of 10 days with a dose that was a little higher (0.3ml twice a day). Along with Metronidazole I was giving him a capsule of Jarrow S. Boulardii everyday.

Saturday I gave him his last dose of Metronidazole and he’s currently still on S. Boulardii, and I now started adding a probiotic to his diet to rebuild good flora again (Proviable-DC).

Now, his stools are definitely better compared to how they were before the treatment. Also, the frequency of his litter box visits has decreased quite a lot.

However he still has pretty soft stools. They’re not liquid anymore, but they’re still pretty mushy and usually semi solid, more on the softer side though.

What should I do? Ask the vet to start a new course again, or wait? And if his stools are not completely solid, does it mean he still has Clostridium?

If anyone has any experience, I was also wondering if there is any other antibiotic used to treat Clostridium that is actually better than Metronidazole and that could be more efficient.

Thank you!

 

[daftcat75]

Clostridium is a stubborn one. You're doing great if the frequency and consistency has improved. I would continue with the s. boulardii, proceed with the Proviable, and give him a break from the metro. Let's see what his poops really look like when his good gut bacteria isn't being destroyed with the bad. You should see more improvements over the next month. When poops are solid again, you can be reasonably certain the clostridium is gone. In fact, my vet wouldn't even let me re-test, telling me that it would be a waste of my money to PCR a solid poop--that it wouldn't be solid if she still had clostridium. I would call the vet back and discuss another round of metro if things get worse after a week or two. Or call the vet today and say, "I want to give him a break on the antibiotics. But how long should I wait if things get worse or don't improve before we discuss another round?"

 

[daftcat75]

On the other paw...

I'm told* kitten poops are naturally softer than adult cat poops. The current mush may be as good as it gets until he grows out of the kitten soft poop stage. If you've never seen a solid poop from him, it may be worth it to PCR a soft poop rather than waiting for them to firm up. I would discuss this with your vet. Perhaps you give him a metro break, let the s. boulardii and Proviable do its thing for a week or two, and then PCR a poop before deciding whether another round of metro is needed.

(*It's been two whole cat lifetimes since I last had kittens and never since I cleaned kitten litter boxes.)

 

[JBMMBJ]

On the other paw...

I'm told* kitten poops are naturally softer than adult cat poops. The current mush may be as good as it gets until he grows out of the kitten soft poop stage. If you've never seen a solid poop from him, it may be worth it to PCR a soft poop rather than waiting for them to firm up. I would discuss this with your vet. Perhaps you give him a metro break, let the s. boulardii and Proviable do its thing for a week or two, and then PCR a poop before deciding whether another round of metro is needed.

(*It's been two whole cat lifetimes since I last had kittens and never since I cleaned kitten litter boxes.)

Thank you very much for all the info! I was told that kittens have softer stools in general by my vet as well. My kitten did have a few solid ones, but mostly they have been soft. I was actually wondering if I should have his stools tested to see if he still has the infection or not. I’ll discuss this with the vet and see what they say.

If I may ask, how many rounds of Metronidazole did your cat do before the infection was gone?
I was also thinking that possibly the first course he did was on a dosage that was too low.

Also, I know Metronidazole can cause a lack of appetite. When he started the second round I noticed he wasn’t eating as much anymore, and even now he’s still not too enthusiastic about his food. How long does it usually take for the appetite to come back completely after stopping the Metronidazole?

Thank you!

 

[daftcat75]

If clostridium was all Krista had, my memory of that episode may be better. Or maybe not. That was a pretty traumatic time that perhaps I'm repressing. I was sleeping very lightly and popping out of bed the moment I heard her scratching. I was very nervous about leaving home during the days. Although I had floors and walls covered with pee pads, I still expected a blowout at any hour, the box(es) would need to be cleaned, and the pads would need to be changed. And sometimes she blew clear past a pad and the floor or wall would also need to be cleaned. It took about a month to trust her pooper once more.

I think she was on two rounds of metro. I think the first one showed improvement and the second round just made her nauseated and everything was still mush. After the second round, we did s. boulardii and proviable for at least another month.

How many days has it been since he stopped the metro? It should clear out of him in a day or two. If his appetite is still weak, you might ask the vet about either FortiFlora (not a very good probiotic, but it does seem to stimulate many a cat's appetite), an anti-nausea drug like Cerenia, or an actual appetite stimulant like mirtazapine/Mirtaz. It's also possible that the clostridium itself and all the poop issues that come with it might also be making him nauseated. I would discuss this with the vet too. You'll need to call them back anyway for the the FortiFlora if you wanted to try that. And to make all this that much more challenging and confusing, Cerenia (what they often give for nausea) makes some cats anorexic. That defeats the point, doesn't it? You may end up needing an appetite stimulant after all if Cerenia alone doesn't do the trick.

I'd start a journal and collect all these questions for your vet. When you do get a call back, you'll likely miss a question or two if you don't have them written down. You can also note what you're giving, how he's doing (energy and appetite), and rate his poops. In this way, you'll hopefully be able to see what works and what doesn't. Clostridium does take awhile to defeat. You'll want to remain focused rather than getting desperate and throwing everything at it to see what sticks.

 

[JBMMBJ]

If clostridium was all Krista had, my memory of that episode may be better. Or maybe not. That was a pretty traumatic time that perhaps I'm repressing. I was sleeping very lightly and popping out of bed the moment I heard her scratching. I was very nervous about leaving home during the days. Although I had floors and walls covered with pee pads, I still expected a blowout at any hour, the box(es) would need to be cleaned, and the pads would need to be changed. And sometimes she blew clear past a pad and the floor or wall would also need to be cleaned. It took about a month to trust her pooper once more.

I think she was on two rounds of metro. I think the first one showed improvement and the second round just made her nauseated and everything was still mush. After the second round, we did s. boulardii and proviable for at least another month.

How many days has it been since he stopped the metro? It should clear out of him in a day or two. If his appetite is still weak, you might ask the vet about either FortiFlora (not a very good probiotic, but it does seem to stimulate many a cat's appetite), an anti-nausea drug like Cerenia, or an actual appetite stimulant like mirtazapine/Mirtaz. It's also possible that the clostridium itself and all the poop issues that come with it might also be making him nauseated. I would discuss this with the vet too. You'll need to call them back anyway for the the FortiFlora if you wanted to try that. And to make all this that much more challenging and confusing, Cerenia (what they often give for nausea) makes some cats anorexic. That defeats the point, doesn't it? You may end up needing an appetite stimulant after all if Cerenia alone doesn't do the trick.

I'd start a journal and collect all these questions for your vet. When you do get a call back, you'll likely miss a question or two if you don't have them written down. You can also note what you're giving, how he's doing (energy and appetite), and rate his poops. In this way, you'll hopefully be able to see what works and what doesn't. Clostridium does take awhile to defeat. You'll want to remain focused rather than getting desperate and throwing everything at it to see what sticks.

I can completely relate to the first part, when he had acute diarrhea I was barely getting any sleep, especially because he had to be cleaned every time! He would get dirty no matter how much I tried to help him since his stools were very liquid. I pray it won’t happen again, because it was incredibly stressful, for the both of us.

In regards to the Metronidazole, he had his last dose Saturday night, so hopefully his appetite will get better soon. He’s eating though, just not as much as before I think. After he started the Metro he also wanted more dry food rather than wet, which was weird. If he’ll do another round of antibiotic I will definitely ask the vet about the appetite stimulant!

I’m keeping track of all his progress and medications, thank you so much for the suggestions!

 

[daftcat75]

Kittens should be eating robustly for all the growth they have to do. I would not wait on his appetite very long. I would call the vet before the long weekend if you need any prescriptions. Better to have them and not need them than the other way around.

It is also entirely possible that he is associating the food with the distress on the other end. I know the last thing you want is another variable. But he may eat another food more robustly than the one he associates with butt drama. If you do try another food, don't transition him all at once. Create an additional, smaller meal that you can slowly transition to the new food. Only transition this guest star meal. If that food doesn't work for him, transition it back to what he was eating. In the meantime, you're not going all in on the new food so you can hopefully limit any damage it might do to your progress if it doesn't work out. If you didn't know this, you also don't need to feed him kitten food if you can find a food for "all life stages" that he likes better or works better for him. And I sure hope you can get him eating less kibble again. Cats don't digest carbs very well. It becomes food for the bacteria in his gut instead. The increase in dry food might be partly responsible for the persistent soft stools (even if the clostridium is on the retreat.)

 

[JBMMBJ]

Kittens should be eating robustly for all the growth they have to do. I would not wait on his appetite very long. I would call the vet before the long weekend if you need any prescriptions. Better to have them and not need them than the other way around.

It is also entirely possible that he is associating the food with the distress on the other end. I know the last thing you want is another variable. But he may eat another food more robustly than the one he associates with butt drama. If you do try another food, don't transition him all at once. Create an additional, smaller meal that you can slowly transition to the new food. Only transition this guest star meal. If that food doesn't work for him, transition it back to what he was eating. In the meantime, you're not going all in on the new food so you can hopefully limit any damage it might do to your progress if it doesn't work out. If you didn't know this, you also don't need to feed him kitten food if you can find a food for "all life stages" that he likes better or works better for him. And I sure hope you can get him eating less kibble again. Cats don't digest carbs very well. It becomes food for the bacteria in his gut instead. The increase in dry food might be partly responsible for the persistent soft stools (even if the clostridium is on the retreat.)

Just wanted to give an update and say that my kitten still hasn’t had very solid stools. I’m still giving him S. Boulardii and Proviable DC, however I’m going to pick up Metronidazole later today at the vet and we’ll try to do another course of antibiotics. I told them that last time my kitten was on Metro he was not very interested in food. He did eat, but not as much as usual.

I asked about the appetite stimulant that was recommended to me, Mirataz, but the vet said my kitten is too young to take it (he’s now almost 4 months old). Is this true? According to the vet as long as he’s not losing weight, he should be fine.

I was thinking I could possibly give him a nutritional paste for kittens while we’re doing this (hopefully last) course of Metro, just to make sure he gets enough calories. Any recommendations on this?

I personally saw Tomlyn Nutri-Cal Gel Kittens and was wondering if anyone had any experience with this? It seems to have good reviews.

Thank you so much!

 

[daftcat75]

If the vet says the kitten is too young for Mirtaz, I defer to him on that. I’m not a vet and I’m not here to override professional advice. I’d ask him about the nutritional gel as well. If he says it is appropriate, it could be helpful. But only so much. It is calorically dense but it won’t make up for food. It would be like trying to make up for a meal with a cookie. But it’s better than nothing and it does have some nutrients. And with Krista, when she still liked the stuff (she grew sick of it over time), it was a powerful bribe to mix with medicine or food and entice her to eat “a few more bites.”

 

[Molly and Abby]

So, my kitten has been having diarrhea and finally we have the results from the lab, I requested a PCR to be done. From my understanding (he’s a 12 week old Ragdoll), he tested positive for Clostridium and Feline Coronavirus. However, the vet that was in charge of him was not at the clinic and cannot communicate the results. I asked to be able to speak to another vet since I’m very worried about him and his constant diarrhea, but I had no luck.

If anyone can help me, I would really appreciate it.
For what he tested positive, it says:

Feline Coronavirus RealPCR - Positive

C. perfringens Alpha Toxin (CPA) Gene - Positive

C. perfringens Alpha Toxin (CPA) Gene Quantity - 745 (HIGH LEVELS OF CPA GENE COPIES PRESENT)

C. perfringens Enterotoxin (CPE) Gene - POSITIVE

C. perfringens Enterotoxin (CPE) Gene Quantity - 1277 (HIGH LEVELS OF CPE GENE COPIES PRESENT)

Now, I am particularly worried about the Felice Coronavirus but from my understanding it is very common? Is there anything that could be done about this?

And for the Clostridium, how is it usually treated? Is it dangerous?

Anything would help. Thank you very much!

Clostridium IS very dangerous and you need to treat your kitty promptly - but it is easy to treat. Your vet should prescribe Flagyl.

Clostridium (also known as C-diff, short for clostridium difficile colitis) is a common infection to both humans & kitties. I actually got C-diff when I sent to the ER for an unrelated problem. (Yes, I got C-diff after going to the hospital). And two of my cats tested positive for clostridium in unrelated situations on different days - and were given Flagyl. They - and I - are fine now.

 

[daftcat75]

Flagyl is brand name for metronidazole. Kitten is about to start third round of Flagyl/metronidazole. Was his weight checked between visits? Did you want to re-do the PCR test before putting him through another round?

 

[JBMMBJ]

Flagyl is brand name for metronidazole. Kitten is about to start third round of Flagyl/metronidazole. Was his weight checked between visits? Did you want to re-do the PCR test before putting him through another round?

They just checked his weight last week when he got his vaccination/physical exam. According to the vets he does look excellent. He has been gaining weight, plays, has good lungs and so on.

For the PCR the vet said we’ll do it if he doesn’t respond to this treatment. He has been improving indeed, just not as much as we were hoping for. It has been pretty exhausting, especially since I know he tested positive for Coronavirus as well. I’m always checking for possible FIP symptoms.

 

[Joelle and the kittens]

Have they done any fecal cytology lately? It's possible clearing out the clostridium allowed other gut parasites an opportunity to colonize before the S. boulardii could take effect. It might be good to check for coccidia etc. again.

 

[JBMMBJ]

Have they done any fecal cytology lately? It's possible clearing out the clostridium allowed other gut parasites an opportunity to colonize before the S. boulardii could take effect. It might be good to check for coccidia etc. again.

We don’t have any other pets, so I don’t believe he could have gotten other parasites (since the last PCR test which was around three weeks ago). And he’s indoors only. We’ll definitely do another test though if this round doesn’t completely eliminate the problem.

Also I’m having an hard time giving him medications. I believe he’s starting to get tired of it. The S. Boulardii is an example, before he almost seemed to like it but now he doesn’t really want it, not even with pumpkin purée (which he loves).

 

[daftcat75]

We don’t have any other pets, so I don’t believe he could have gotten other parasites (since the last PCR test which was around three weeks ago). And he’s indoors only. We’ll definitely do another test though if this round doesn’t completely eliminate the problem.

Also I’m having an hard time giving him medications. I believe he’s starting to get tired of it. The S. Boulardii is an example, before he almost seemed to like it but now he doesn’t really want it, not even with pumpkin purée (which he loves).

Ask your vet if it's okay to give him the nutritional gel. I used that stuff to great success disguising medicines and supplements with Krista. Until she got tired of the gel.

 

[JBMMBJ]

Ask your vet if it's okay to give him the nutritional gel. I used that stuff to great success disguising medicines and supplements with Krista. Until she got tired of the gel.

It seems they get tired of things very easily, unfortunately for us!

I asked the vet and said I could try as there shouldn’t be any side effects. So I went to buy it, and to my disappointment he doesn’t seem to like it. He sniffed it and that was it. I tried to but a tiny bit in his mouth, but nothing. So I had to actually put a bit in a syringe and give it to him that way. Today for example he didn’t eat much.
Really hoping for the best!