Help with kitten/dog interaction!

[robertskitty]

Let me start out by saying mods please move if this isn't the right place. I genuinely wasn't sure where to post!

For those of you that don't watch the kitten thread, a few weeks ago my dog Odin started acting very strange, dancing around the edge of our pool. I found and fished out a little black kitten (roughly 6 weeks old). The kitten, Jiji, is doing amazing! She has been given a clean bill of health and is getting on pretty well with our 7 year old cat Luna. She is also getting along fine with our 9 year old dog and 10 year old dogs! The issue we are currently working on is my 7 year old husky pitbull mix, Odin (the one who let me know she was in the pool).

He's over 100lbs so we have kept them mostly separate just because one accidental step could kill the little kitten. Jiji is 8 weeks old now and full of fire and fight. We have been letting her out a few hours each day, but have kept Odin locked up. I've now began introductions with him. Odin has grown up with cats his whole life. 2 were already in the house when we got him and Luna was added to the house when he was roughly 1. So its been a long time since a new kitten entered.

So far, Odin has acted VERY interested in Jiji. We cannot tell if it is just curiosity or if it's his prey drive since she is just a tiny thing. After seeing him following after her the first time acting like he was trying to catch or play with her we have slowed the introductions way down. Last week I have him a bully stick and let Jiji out. He didn't even blink at her but Jiji wouldn't stop trying to grab his chew and Odin has been food aggressive in the past so I quickly called a stop to that attempt.

Sunday I collected up a massive bowl of treats and let Jiji start out running around then brought Odin into the living room and kept him focused on me doing his trick routines. I started out keeping his whole focus on me then slowly began to spread out the treats giving him time to look at her and interact with her. Jiji is pretty sure that Odin's nose floating over her head is a toy waiting to play with. Odin was very patient with her but eventually did nip her. Not hard, Jiji yelped, jumped away then was bounding back to play again.

Tonight I let Odin out and put him in a down stay on his dog bed. Jiji ran around acting her wild and crazy self and Odin was a good boy and stayed on his bed but he moaned and whined the whole time and watched her unblinkingly unless I pulled his attention back to me. I used a feather teaser to keep her away from him. Odin doesn't like feather teasers (he thinks it is a puppy that needs protected. I always put him outside when I play with Luna) but I didn't have another easy way to keep her away without sitting between them. If she got close he'd jump forward towards her but with his mouth closed so I don't think he was trying to grab her but again it makes me wary.

I am very open to suggestions! I don't think Odin would ever hurt her intentionally but he's such a big boy I don't want to risk the new baby!

Odin right after finding Jiji.

My big pupper

 

[di and bob]

if Oden has been around cats that helps. But as you said, the kitten is tiny, a stranger, and he may still see her as a threat. I trained a hunting dog to not kill cats by introducing them to the dog on a leash. When he lunged, I pulled back and scolded him. This was all indoors. Eventually, I would say about a month, the dog stopped lunging. The first step is to get the intent staring under control. Get him to focus on something else, as you have done, treats, toys, etc. You are exactly right not to let the kitten near when Oden is eating or snacking. The possessiveness will come out and could be dangerous. Trust your instincts. If Oden can watch the other animals interacting, that would help. If he did nip at her, that could be a warning sign too, it wouldn't take much to seriously hurt a tiny kitten. In time he will accept her as a member of the family. In the meantime, only very supervised visits, with Oden on a leash, and let him observe her from afar. All the luck, and keep us posted!

 

[robertskitty]

I forgot to mention that during the day Jiji is staying in the cat room behind a baby gate covered in plexiglass so Odin does have the option to go see and check on her whenever he wants. The room is L shaped so he can only see the small part of the L so she isn't always on display but when she comes to the gate he can see her.

Odin has always been very protective of things smaller than him because he seems to think they are puppies. We've had to ban squeaky toys from the house because he thinks it's some injured animal and becomes increasingly distressed every time it squeaks. He will bring it to his bed and lay with it and gently poke it with his nose to make sure it's okay.

I'm thinking tonight I'll have someone else keeping Jiji busy and work on "look at me" with Odin in a down stay on his bed and see how things go. Jiji is definitely acting 8 weeks old. Everything around her is a toy that needs fought. Thankfully Ebony, my oldest dog is taking the extra attention like a champ.

Going to be ordering soft claws soon. We used them with Luna at this age and it really helped save everyone's flesh until the super attack mode phase is over lol

 

[di and bob]

Sounds like a plan!

 

[fionasmom]

Odin is a handsome boy! It really does sound as if you have done a great job with your dogs in training and supervising them, much better than many people. I have always had dogs, my whole life, mostly GSDs but one Jack Russell with pretty high prey drive. My GSDs were all trained to a command of "kitty no no" which only meant "don't chase"; they were nice guys who would not have hurt another animal. It does not sound as if Odin would either. I agree with using a leash and interrupting the staring. Aside from that, I have never put any small kitten around a dog, if only because of the size and possibility of an accident.

Have you ever had any trouble with his prey drive before?

 

[robertskitty]

Not really. He's never been a chaser so much as a bounce around and play kinda guy. And when he's following Jiji I think he's PROBABLY just trying to catch up and play cause he kinda does slappy feet like he would with a puppy but even playing with such a size difference is scary.

I don't like the staring because it feels very prey drive but he may just be closely watching the baby to be sure she's okay. It's so hard to know what's going on in his mind!!

 

[neely]

I'm thinking tonight I'll have someone else keeping Jiji busy and work on "look at me" with Odin in a down stay on his bed and see how things go.

I think this is an excellent idea! Having someone else occupy or distract Jiji while you work with Odin in a down stay is a great idea. We've had dogs and cats but never a dog with a kitten that young. Obviously Jiji is full of vim and vigor. It's going to take a lot of supervision and patience on your part but you sound very level headed and determined to do what is best for your pack.

ETA: I have always put my dog on a leash whenever introducing them to a new resident cat. Even if I dropped the leash I knew I could quickly pick it up if necessary.

 

[robertskitty]

I think this is an excellent idea! Having someone else occupy or distract Jiji while you work with Odin in a down stay is a great idea. We've had dogs and cats but never a dog with a kitten that young. Obviously Jiji is full of vim and vigor. It's going to take a lot of supervision and patience on your part but you sound very level headed and determined to do what is best for your pack.

ETA: I have always put my dog on a leash whenever introducing them to a new resident cat. Even if I dropped the leash I knew I could quickly pick it up if necessary.

Luna was roughly the same age as Jiji so he's been around tiny kittens but it's been a very long time. Jiji thankfully has no fear. Now we just need to get Odin more relaxed!

Here's a picture of Odin and Luna from 7 years ago.

 

[RTR]

I had German shepherds for years, and they had strong prey drives unless raised with another animal. Your pit mix looks mostly pit. I know they have strong prey drives also. It may not be a GOOD MIX. Good luck. I have three cats now no dogs.

 

[iPappy]

Not really. He's never been a chaser so much as a bounce around and play kinda guy. And when he's following Jiji I think he's PROBABLY just trying to catch up and play cause he kinda does slappy feet like he would with a puppy but even playing with such a size difference is scary.

I don't like the staring because it feels very prey drive but he may just be closely watching the baby to be sure she's okay. It's so hard to know what's going on in his mind!!

The staring would unnerve me too. I've had herding breeds and when I see staring, I immediately don't like it because it can really turn into obsession. It's controversial, and everyone has their own handling style, but I wouldn't be afraid to correct him and reward when reorients to you if he is staring and vocalizing at her while holding a down.
Once she's bigger and looks like a cat and less like a baby, he will probably be good with her. Kittens also make cute little squeaky noises and their hisses or growls (not to mention body language) aren't really scary to most dogs, but cat experienced dogs usually recognize the signs once the cat is full grown. He is really cute, and you sound like a very experienced, smart handler of both dogs and cats both. It also sounds like you are managing the living arrangements very well, I'm impressed!

 

[iPappy]

I'm thinking tonight I'll have someone else keeping Jiji busy and work on "look at me" with Odin in a down stay on his bed and see how things go. Jiji is definitely acting 8 weeks old. Everything around her is a toy that needs fought. Thankfully Ebony, my oldest dog is taking the extra attention like a champ.

Are you familiar with the Control Unleashed book? I have used it a lot and REALLY like it. I do train a look at me with my dogs. But this book taught me to do the opposite, put "look at (the cat, the kid, the bike, the car, the bird, the other dog") etc. on command. I wasn't sure about it at first, but I raised my oldest dog with that and the result was the closest thing to perfection I have ever had in a dog. He was kicking everyone's butt in obedience competitions at less than 2 years old!
I fought like hell with my last dog trying to keep his attention on me. It was like it was me vs. the dog and the environment. With Control Unleashed it felt like me, my dog, and the environment vs. nothing. It takes the constant feeling of low key battle out of the equation. The look at that game is great. You take something like your kitten and teach your dog to look at them and reward. Basically you do this over and over, session by session, until they're bored with the formerly exciting thing and are offering a really quick, uninterested glance at the thing they previously couldn't keep their mind off. It really works. If time goes by and you're not having luck, I'd really encourage you to take a look at that protocol.

 

[robertskitty]

We had a nice session tonight with Odin and Jiji. I sat with Odin on the couch while my husband monitored the kitten.

I pet Odin and scrolled on my phone. If he tried to get up to go towards Jiji I pulled his collar and said no. He only tried that about 3 times. Then if he started staring I'd tell him no and pull his nose around.

Within a few minutes he would mostly just relax and enjoy the petting. He rolled on his back for awhile for belly rubs and completely ignored Jiji so I think it's good progress! I had to hold Jiji for a second and Odin was able to sniff but didn't have that same hyper focus "prey" behavior so hopefully that's a step in the right direction.

Not sure how or when to start next steps tho! I think we will aim for another session Sunday. I don't think this is a situation that will greatly benefit from daily work and we have lots of time so I'm in no rush.


iPappy thanks for the advice! I will definitely check in on that as well! Odin is exceptionally smart. Most new commands only take him one or two training sessions to at least loosely master so it may definitely be worth checking into.

 

[robertskitty]

I had Jiji out with Odin again last night. My husband wasn't around to help wrangle the tiny terror so it wasn't quite as smooth. Odin did okay but Jiji kept jumping up on the edge of the couch to swat at Odin's paws which was not ideal. Odin took it well enough but jumped every time she did it so I cut the session a bit short.

 

[fionasmom]

I had a tortie several years ago who would walk up to my then-current GSD and sucker punch him in the face. He was a 126 lb sweetheart who would cry for me to come and rescue him....but I discouraged it on her part as it could also go the other way.

 

[robertskitty]

Jiji broke containment today. Found her in the living room with Odin standing over her licking her and giving the other two dogs some side looks. Seemed more protective than anything.

We made the decision last weekend to give Jiji till she is closer to 12 weeks before continuing introductions just because Odin's got old dog eyes and to him, she may just look like a bouncing ball of black rather than another living thing. Still we are encouraged that he didn't attempt to eat her today!

 

[fionasmom]

That is a very good sign that he felt protective. I agree with keeping them separate though for a while longer as it will be safer for everyone.

 

[robertskitty]

Tomorrow she will be 10 weeks old and she JUST broke 2lbs today so she's definitely on the smaller end of the spectrum but full of crazy energy!

 

[robertskitty]

Jiji continues to make it very hard to keep her contained. The baby gate continues to get more plexiglass and duct tape and cardboard but she continues to find ways out.

Still I really want her to grow before she's able to come and go as she pleases. She's 10 weeks old today and just made it to two pounds (907 grams) last night so she's still very small but also very stubborn!!

 

[iPappy]

Jiji continues to make it very hard to keep her contained. The baby gate continues to get more plexiglass and duct tape and cardboard but she continues to find ways out.

Still I really want her to grow before she's able to come and go as she pleases. She's 10 weeks old today and just made it to two pounds (907 grams) last night so she's still very small but also very stubborn!!

Two pounds and already taking over the world Jiji Houdini?
My tortie was a stubborn kitten too. She's seriously a cat that makes me laugh every single day