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Help with diet plan
- Thread starter tobykitten
- Start Date
Hello and welcome to TCS.
I am glad you have chosen raw as his diet. Though you have a mix of meat/bone/organ, you also need to add supplements to that mix to make it completely balanced. Though having the hearts adds the necessary taurine, Hare today sells the supplement Alnutrin for the mix with bones and for mixes without bone. There is a supplement list on Dr. Pierson's http://www.catinfo.org/?link=makingcatfood if you'd prefer to make your own.
I am glad you have chosen raw as his diet. Though you have a mix of meat/bone/organ, you also need to add supplements to that mix to make it completely balanced. Though having the hearts adds the necessary taurine, Hare today sells the supplement Alnutrin for the mix with bones and for mixes without bone. There is a supplement list on Dr. Pierson's http://www.catinfo.org/?link=makingcatfood if you'd prefer to make your own.
Congratulations on choosing a raw diet for your baby.
It's true that you do need to have a good balance, especially for a growing kitten.
In addition to what Katluver mentioned, I would say to try and continue to encourage him with some real bones. They really are important not only for tooth health, but jaw strength and mental stimulation. Keep trying with chicken ribs, both from the back and the ones from the breast side, they are pretty good starters. Necks and wings are a bit advanced, imo. The occasional gizzard is also good for chewing practice.
Also, during his growing stages, let him eat as much as he likes. I don't know how old you are, but think "growing teenager"... they are insatiable!
It's true that you do need to have a good balance, especially for a growing kitten.
In addition to what Katluver mentioned, I would say to try and continue to encourage him with some real bones. They really are important not only for tooth health, but jaw strength and mental stimulation. Keep trying with chicken ribs, both from the back and the ones from the breast side, they are pretty good starters. Necks and wings are a bit advanced, imo. The occasional gizzard is also good for chewing practice.
Also, during his growing stages, let him eat as much as he likes. I don't know how old you are, but think "growing teenager"... they are insatiable!
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
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Hmmmm... why is a supplement needed if feeding balanced raw? Is it because it's ground?
Even if the heart is whole?
Even if the heart is whole?
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The ground mixes from Hare today are not complete. They need supplements. The heart only adds the taurine and is considered a muscle meat not a secreting organ.
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You'll find differing opinions on whether whole body (meat/bones/organs) are a complete and balanced diet for a cat. Some say it is. The egg yolks are a good addition. I prefer to also add at least fish oil, vit E and a vit B complex to account for the generally lower nutrient value of farm raised animals. You can check out Dr. Pierson's web site for more information: http://www.catinfo.org/?link=makingcatfood
You say the 10 lbs your got (you said 8 lbs but what you itemized comes out to 10 lbs) should last 30 days. That's only 5.3 oz a day. That might be enough for a 10 week old kitten but you can expect he will start eating much more soon. Probably twice as much. Growing kittens eat a lot and they should be given as much as they want until their growth starts to slow.
You say the 10 lbs your got (you said 8 lbs but what you itemized comes out to 10 lbs) should last 30 days. That's only 5.3 oz a day. That might be enough for a 10 week old kitten but you can expect he will start eating much more soon. Probably twice as much. Growing kittens eat a lot and they should be given as much as they want until their growth starts to slow.
Hi, yep, I hope he will start eating more soon! I got 8 lbs of the ground mix -- 2lbs of hearts.
I've been wondering how much I can expect him to eat -- I made the portions big on purpose, because I know to let kittens eat as much as they want, but he always leaves some left over so I guess I'm doing that right.
He's growing a lot, though - vet says he looks great for his age.
Thanks for the critique -- not sure if your signature message was intended for me, but I have done research, and I think it's good to get specific help.
It's tricky stuff especially when you get into supplements, and like you said, there seems to be differing opinion on whether whole carcass/whole body ground is complete and balanced as is or if needs something extra.
Also, Katluver, I am also aware that heart is a muscle meat (not an organ) and supplies taurine, but I thought since I'm feeding meat/organ/bone mix, the organ percentage is accounted in there?
I've been wondering how much I can expect him to eat -- I made the portions big on purpose, because I know to let kittens eat as much as they want, but he always leaves some left over so I guess I'm doing that right.
He's growing a lot, though - vet says he looks great for his age.
Thanks for the critique -- not sure if your signature message was intended for me, but I have done research, and I think it's good to get specific help.
It's tricky stuff especially when you get into supplements, and like you said, there seems to be differing opinion on whether whole carcass/whole body ground is complete and balanced as is or if needs something extra.
Also, Katluver, I am also aware that heart is a muscle meat (not an organ) and supplies taurine, but I thought since I'm feeding meat/organ/bone mix, the organ percentage is accounted in there?
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Naw, the siggy message is just always there. You seem to have done your research. We recently had someone post who clearly didn't do the research and the result was very sad for her kitten.
If you are referring to the organ percentage in the "80/10/5/5" method of raw feeding, the percentages are meant to represent what would be found in the whole prey that would be part of a cats "natural diet". The Hare Today meat/bone/organ grinds are made from actual whole prey (minus entrails and fur) so they by definition should be composed of the proper percentages of meat/bone/organ.
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Thanks!!! 
I'd LOVE for him to chow down more - he seems to spread his meals out ALL DAY LONG. So, if this is going to pick up soon, I welcome it!!!
You are correct, Hare Today's website FAQ suggests that the ground mixes are balanced. At the bottom though it also says cats need supplementation. I just reached out to Tracy at Hare Today to get her input and I'll report back here.
I'd LOVE for him to chow down more - he seems to spread his meals out ALL DAY LONG.
So, if this is going to pick up soon, I welcome it!!!You are correct, Hare Today's website FAQ suggests that the ground mixes are balanced. At the bottom though it also says cats need supplementation. I just reached out to Tracy at Hare Today to get her input and I'll report back here.
Hare Today sells a product called Alnutrin that is meant to supplement their meat/bone/organ grinds. Several TCS members here use it.
The web site for the company that manufactures Alnutrin:
http://www.knowwhatyoufeed.com
The web site for the company that manufactures Alnutrin:
http://www.knowwhatyoufeed.com
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You can totally do that. I worked out the amount needed per ounce of food a while back. I just looked up my file, here's the info:
The Alnutrin recommendation is 32g per 8 pounds of meat, bone & organ.
That's 4g per pound.
4 g is one scoop (the scoop provided with the supplement, for those of us that received them).
One scoop is 1.25 teaspoons
With 16 ounces per pound, that works out to 5/64 teaspoons per ounce of food.
Because I balance many of their supplements per meal, not in batches, I use these measuring spoons:
Norpro mini-measuring spoons:
The smallest (the "drop") is 1/64; the 2nd smallest (the "smidgeon") is 1/32. So you need to use the "smidgeon" twice (2/32 = 4/64) and the "drop" once (1/64) per ounce of food fed.
The Alnutrin recommendation is 32g per 8 pounds of meat, bone & organ.
That's 4g per pound.
4 g is one scoop (the scoop provided with the supplement, for those of us that received them).
One scoop is 1.25 teaspoons
With 16 ounces per pound, that works out to 5/64 teaspoons per ounce of food.
Because I balance many of their supplements per meal, not in batches, I use these measuring spoons:
Norpro mini-measuring spoons:
The smallest (the "drop") is 1/64; the 2nd smallest (the "smidgeon") is 1/32. So you need to use the "smidgeon" twice (2/32 = 4/64) and the "drop" once (1/64) per ounce of food fed.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
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Good news...
The Alnutrin (for meat/bone diets) arrived yesterday and I've started mixing Toby's food up according to the directions ....
I also add a 1000mg capsule of this Fish Oil: http://www.spectrumorganics.com/?id=210#j28
which has 160mg EPA and 100mg of DHA per capsule...
Because he's only 3 lbs, I think I'm going to only add one or two capsules a week...
He loves it!
I think this is a good diet plan now....
The Alnutrin (for meat/bone diets) arrived yesterday and I've started mixing Toby's food up according to the directions ....
I also add a 1000mg capsule of this Fish Oil: http://www.spectrumorganics.com/?id=210#j28
which has 160mg EPA and 100mg of DHA per capsule...
Because he's only 3 lbs, I think I'm going to only add one or two capsules a week...
He loves it!
I think this is a good diet plan now....
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And the best part? He loves it! 
