Help Needed with Feral Cats is Just Out of Reach?

phlyx

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Hopefully we can get help with our situation. We had lost our elderly cats several years ago and a year ago we decided we wanted to add to the family again. After looking around we adopted two feral kittens from an animal center thru a local pet store, they were around 8-10 weeks old. One a tux and one a tort, both girls. They were skittish when we held them at the store, but we figured just nerves. When we brought them home in a carrier and opened it to let them out. The tux laid in the carrier and torts zoomed out and immediately crawled behind some furniture. We had a heck of a time getting her but finally did and put them in a spare bathroom with some bedding, food, water and a litterbox.

We kept them in there for a couple weeks until they were calmer and then moved them into a spare bedroom. Still couldn’t hold them but sat with them and didn’t try to grab them. They stayed in there for several more weeks with a cat tower and they would play and romp around but wouldn’t let us near them. After several more weeks we left the door open and after several days they got curious can came out.

Over the next year we added to the entertainment and they enjoyed going outside on the screened porch thru a cat door in the kitchen. We have a large lot and many bird feeders, so they enjoyed watching the wildlife. We added shelves for them to climb on and many forms of entertainment. They have full run of the house and enjoy exploring, but they still would not let us touch them.

We have a sitting room and that has turned into their safe room and where they sleep most of the day. There are some cat beds back there and over the last couple months, they have allowed us to pet them when we’re sitting with them and they’re in the cat bed. Pretty amazing as they roll around and let us pet them all over, purring. But, cannot even think about holding them or picking them up.

When they’re out and about in the house and we get too near them they run. If we’re in the kitchen and they think we’re getting them food they’ll rub up against our legs. The torts will often let you pet her a bit but she’s skittish. The tux, no way. She’ll run if you even move a hand in her general direction. The tux will stand at the door and meow every morning like she wants attention, but she’ll run if you try to give her any. She’ll sit in a spot in the living room and look around for her laser and chase it all over, but don’t try to touch her. The torts could care less about the laser.

Surprising that in that one place in the one room they’re putty in our hands but everywhere else they’re terrified of us. So last weekend we had a vet appointment. We were going to try to entice them into the carriers and when that didn’t work, we tried to segregate them into small rooms to get them in. After them cramming into unimaginably small places and drawing some blood we gave up. They’re back to their old selves and we have another appointment this weekend, hopefully what the vet gave us will calm them enough to bring them in.

But we’re really at our wits end. We’re looking for retirement not too far down the road and really wanted pets and not projects but this where we are. We both work full time so our free time is pretty scarce, we love them but would like to find some way to socialize them. We have bought every treat under the sun to try to use to help them get close, but they turn their noses up at everything, even expensive dehydrated chicken and salmon snacks. We were quite naive in the ways of the wild kitties and probably could of done things differently but that's water under the bridge so any and all help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

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shadowsrescue

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The key to working with them is consistency. If you take some time each day to work with them, you might see progress.

Do you play with them? I am talking about toys that really get them moving such as the da bird wand toy or other. They need to get their energy out. Play also works by helping cats to become more confident. There is a method called the Hunt, Catch, Kill, Eat, Groom, Sleep. Basically you play with the cat(s) until they are worn out. You may need to start slowly if they are not used to play. Next you let them hunt, catch and kill the toy while they are chasing the wand (with a feather or toy mouse). After a nice play session, they are rewarded with a special meal or snack to satisfy the eat. Many cats next will groom themselves and take a nap.

Have you tried baby food? Gerber stage 2 in the small glass jars with the blue label. Most cats go crazy for the chicken and turkey. This can be a true reward and they can learn to lick the goodie off your fingers. Plain cooked chicken or bits of canned tuna or salmon are also high value reward treats.

When I have worked with feral cats that need more socializing, I often use a homemade pet petter. It can start as a toy, but eventually gets used to touch the cat. I took an old sturdy wand toy ( dowel rod would work too) and wrapped the end with an old sock and then covered in soft flannel. I just attached it with duct tape. I would move this around to get the cats attention. When they were facing away from me, I would gently start to touch their back. Just slightly at first. You can them move on to moving the wand so they learn to understand touch and petting. Offer lots of high value treats during this phase. I will post a picture below of the pet petter I used.

I understand the frustration of working with cats. Yet, they are your pets. Giving up on them might be a very difficult life for them. Shelters are full of cats and kittens that need homes. Unsocialized cats would not fare very well and their chances of getting adopted are slim.

There is lots and lots of valuable material on this site and lots of people who have worked and socialized feral cats. I have 5 former feral cats living in my house right now. It has taken lots of time to work with them.



Vet visits can be really traumatic. I have to give my cats gabapentin for vet visits. I also have used a mobile vet as it's so much easier than getting them into a carrier and transporting. I hope the vet visit will be easier this time around.

Wand petting #2.JPG
Wand petting.JPG
 

jefferd18

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I am going to suggest something- separate them for a while. Right now they are depending on one another- what you want is for them to depend on you a little bit for company. This will allow you to have a direct one on one with them, instead of one having the other to hide behind.

This has worked for me when it comes to taming both parrots and cats.
 

lavishsqualor

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First let me say that these two cats are incredibly lucky to have such wonderful and attentive custodians. They are both beautiful animals! I think shadowsrescue's advice is perfect. Even so, some cats are just never going to allow anyone to pick them up. I can walk around cradling Atticus and Thirteen like babies, but if I tried that with Bella Roma, the most recent addition to my feline family, I'd draw back a nub. With her, too, a lot depends on whether I'm standing up, sitting or lying down. She's very skittish when I'm standing; however, if I'm sitting or lying down I get all the headbutts I could ask for, plus a whole lotta purring!

My advice would be to take shadowsrescue's advice and work with them, and if it happens then it happens. But if not, you've still got two beautiful cats who, no matter what, love and depend on you. It's clear that they feel safe in "their room," so the goal is to get them to feel that way everywhere.

Much luck to you, and thank you again for your tremendous efforts with these cats.
 

Jcatbird

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I only have former ferals in my home. Over the past years a large number have passed through here as rescues. Although two remain skittish, all can be picked up. Please follow the advice of shadowrescue. From what you say of them enjoying petting, I have great feelings about those two! I believe they are two that will, in their own time, allow more contact.
One thing that I do with all kitties here is to give each one a carrier as a bed. It is out at all times with one of my shirts in it to keep my scent present for them. All treats are given their when the kitties are being socialized. Play time happens there too. A wand toy can lead them in and out of the carrier for fun. It becomes the place they think of as sanctuary. When frightened they hide there. That makes future vet trips much easier, plus, the kitties travel in a place they feel safe. It’s less stress on everyone. As soon as the vet does an exam, kitties go right back into the carrier voluntarily unless they just enjoy seeing the vet. Some of mine have learned to love the vet. Lol Your kitties are well on their way to being “previous ferals.” Don’t give up. There are lots of tips that can help you through the process of socializing. Just follow the advice been given already and keep us updated. It takes time going through the process but you can already pet them. That’s great ! You’ve done a wonderful thing by saving these babies!!:clap2:
 
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phlyx

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Wow, great advice ad suggestions. The petting "stick" sounds great. They are totally different personalities so other than sleeping at night (after their post parent's bedtime action) they aren't together much. The tux is a day cat, out on the porch, exploring, stalking birds on the feeders, laying in the Florida sun napping and in the evenings absolutely loves the laser pointer. She also does these crazy flips (). The tort is a night hunter and very much acts like a wild cat (don't mean feral, more like a bobcat or panther) and she often has "conniptions" where she just going bananas and wrestles a toy for a long time. The torts also will chase ping pong balls in the bathtub until she works them all out (video ). Funny to hear. We also have put on YouTube cat videos (birds and squirrels eating seed) and put their hammock beds in front of the big TV and they'll often sit for hours watching the birds fluttering around. Also, we had some catnip spray and when they were young they could care less about that. Well, tried it again a couple days ago and now they roll around and go crazy with it. And must apologize for calling them by their color, the tux is Breeze and the tort is Torts (just seemed to fit). We'll get some stuff together to try those wonderful suggestions. Thanks!
 

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phlyx

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Breeze flipping video didn't seem to work -
 
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phlyx

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Newbie question.... any way to edit a post after you post it?
 

vyger

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Yes you can edit but only for a short time. I think it's an hour or so. After that it becomes permanent.
 

vyger

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I believe a large part of what you are dealing with is personality. To keep from writing a book I will give you a current example. I have 6, six month old kittens who were born to a feral mom. She brought them up from under my house when they were pretty young, maybe 2 or 3 weeks. I believe the reason she brought them up was because she couldn't feed them anymore and needed the help to get them on other food. She was really skinny and forever hungry and really appreciated the food she was getting so she brought her kittens into the same space. In the 2 years that I have known this feral mom I was never able to touch her. When I first saw her it was just a flash and a tail so getting her to at least come and eat on a regular basis was progress. These kittens were very shy and hissey. Then I introduced them to canned food, shreds with gravy. In just a week they were climbing all over my feet, especially when they heard the can open. So they socialized themselves because they were starving and I was the replacement mom. Amazingly in another 2 weeks of me feeding and playing with her kittens the mom decided she wanted to try it and walked over an started rubbing on my hand. Wow, 2 years it took, but she took the plunge after watching her kittens. Now 4 months later the mom is the first one wanting to get her head and back rubbed. OK, everybody on the same game plan, so I thought. There are 2 little girls, smaller than the others, that look so identical I can't tell them apart by looks. To know which is which all I have to do is pick them up. One goes completely limp and loves being carried. The other hates being picked up and goes stiff and starts struggling and then scratching if she is not put down right away. She is essentially anti social. She gets along with all her litter-mates and they all sleep together still but she wants nothing to do with me in terms of being handled. Now all of these guys have been living in an entryway. It is a room between outside and inside. Three of the kittens have decided to come in the house. They walked in when the door was open and looked around. They started coming in on a regular basis and introduced themselves to the 5 older cats who live in the house. A few spats, but nothing serious. Two of them took over the cat tree and have decided to live inside and that is where they want to be. They now spend the night inside the house, one of them is the little girl that goes limp when you pick her up. She follows me around, sits by me, apparently has adopted me. Her twin sister will not come in the door, hates being picked up and I sometimes need to wear gloves and scruff her just handle her. Two of the others also don't want inside. But the feral mom decided to come in and look around so she is now tamer than her kittens are. The only thing that accounts for it is personality.
So, you have a couple of semi antisocials that may or may not mellow over time. This might be more than you want to take on but something that might work to help them would be to get a third cat who is calm and social and see if they will learn from it. If nothing else that way you could have at least one that likes being a lap cat. Likely you didn't plan on having 3. I didn't plan on having 5, well now 7 it looks like, maybe eight. I am actually a little glad the others didn't want in also. I am trying to figure out when I lost ownership of the house and became just the caretaker.
 

Tobermory

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Newbie question.... any way to edit a post after you post it?
You can edit after 20 posts and five days of membership. Then you’ll be able to find a drop down menu in the lower left of your post. I think it’s active only for an hour or two after you post.

Your two are such cuties! body language in the videos says they’re pretty comfortable with you. I adopted a three-year-old feral in October 2017, and it took months before I could pet her.

One tip from Jackson Galaxy was particularly helpful: Don’t reach your hand toward them. Hold your hand out—with the back of your hand toward them—and let them come to you. I spent a lot of time sitting on the floor with my hand dangling, waiting for Mocha to come up and rub. Then I would keep my hand still and just slowly move the back of it down her side. I always made sure to keep my hand low and avoided going up over her head. It took forever to train my husband to stop reaching for her. She would run every time, even if she had been rubbing on his legs moments before just like Breeze was in your video.

Funny thing about the catnip. Mocha was completely unaffected by it when I first brought her home and I thought she was one of those cats who are immune to it. But after about a year, she started to react to it and now loves it! My theory is that she was so used to being afraid and on guard that she couldn’t let herself relax enough to enjoy it.

Some cats take longer than others to be full companions And some always retain some of their caution. I can’t pick Mocha up and hold her, but in all other ways, she’s incredibly loving and affectionate. She has just now—after almost two and a half years—learned to jump up on my lap when I pat my leg and call her. (It took her a year to learn her name.)

Breeze and Torts are gorgeous. They’ll get there!
 
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phlyx

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Thanks again for all the helpful advice. I don't think we want to get a third. These two have bonded very well together and bringing in a third might help but it also may cause these two to gang up on the "outsider", have seen that action before, not pretty. We did manage to get them to the vet thanks to some meds the vet gave us. Still had a challenge getting them but we got them in the carriers and to the vet which is less than a mile away. Got three year shots so hopefully we don't have a need to hunt them down again for a while. They were good at the vet, they were picked up by the scruff and didn't fight the vet or her aid. They actually calmed when picked by the scruff as I know that is mom-comforting to some cats. They're back, forgave us, but Breeze, the tux, is a bit more wary than before. Didn't think about the back of the hand lower than their head, we'll try that. My better half is better and I think her voice is more calming than mine, I try to talk in a higher pitch but sometimes slip and my coaching "outside voice" shows up. Oops. Was surprised yesterday as I cooked dinner with the smoker and when banging and clanging all the things back together when done, Torts just walked right beside me out to the garden area and hardly paid me any attention. Guess that's progress. She always runs past us, especially in the mornings, but if we say her name and call to her she stops, turns and faces us and often walks up and sniffs our hand. We'll keep working on it and thanks again.
 
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phlyx

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Here we are a couple months down the road in a pandemic with massive protests and basically the world turned on its head. Passing along an update and wish it was a better one. Breeze has now totally divorced herself from being brushed or touched outside the back room and only by my better half, same for Torts but she will get around my better half outside the room, not Breeze. If they are in any room and we walk in somewhat unexpectedly, they jump like a wolf just pounced in the room and they'll hightail it so fast they'll spin throw rugs upside down. Breeze looks wary, Torts has a look of terror on her face. They don't care for their toys or play things except Torts will go crazy on the porch with a baggy tie or a pine needle. Torts doesn't play with anything, she's a hunter and you can see it in how she moves and reacts. Torts sleeps all day, gets up around 5PM for dinner and a snack and then is on the prowl on the porch all night. And when we go out the porch door outside, she tries to sneak out. Breeze will sit in the living room waiting for the laser, but won't come near either of us and usually tires of the laser in a few minutes. A couple times my better half picked Breeze up while in the back room, walked around with her and handed her to me. She was terrified, head all hidden away looking for a chance to escape. As soon as she does she's gone. If anyone even appears to think about picking Torts up, she's either running or attacking.

I have been working from home for 3 months and I do not see either of them during the day, occasionally Breeze will be in the kitchen looking at me like "Why the h*ll are you still here?". They have benches, perches/shelves, toys, bird feeders nearby, bird baths and a lot of wildlife around, snacks, food, and get spoiled with treats, and they couldn't care less about us, pet me, feed me, stay away from me and absolutely do not try to touch me (unless we're in the cat bed in the back room, you're totally quiet and have been sitting doing nothing for 30 minutes). I am thinking of volunteering at the local animal rescue place just so I can remember what it feels like to pet a dog or cat and have them actually appreciate it. I miss having pets :O(
 

vyger

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Yeah, you definitely have some personality issues.
The little ones I had (litter of 5) back when I wrote my response have pretty much grown up now and their personalities have come out. One is a socialite who loves people, even strangers. It's a "greeter", the first one to come and sniff new people. Rubs on a hand if it is slow to pet him and rolls on the ground waiting for a finger tickle of his plump belly. At the totally opposite end there is an antisocial one who tries to stay out of reach and doesn't really care for being touched, somewhat like yours. Sometimes personalities change in time, sometimes they don't. To bad I don't live in your area, I could offer you a nice calm happy social kitten. Also I am going to have a big surplus. The spay and neuter clinic I had scheduled to get my older kittens fixed at was canceled when everything shut down. So all 4 girls promptly went out and got pregnant. Three have now delivered, a total of 17 kittens with one still to go. Kind of the opposite problem to yours. Here is a new thread about it, I was thinking some of the kittens might be albino but now that is not the case.
Albinos maybe.
 
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phlyx

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A quick update and question. The recues are older now and the tort has let my better half pet her and she'll sit in her lap in a quiet room. She'll come to me, sniff my hand and move away if I try to pet her as I'm not the giver of snacks. The tux is very standoffish, only comes near if you're getting ready to put food down. She'll play with the laser but any moves towards her even from 5 feet away and she'll vacate the area. I am the guy running the scary mower/trimmer/leaf blower outside the screen, the guy who chases the nasty whistler ducks off the gazebo and out of the bird feeders. Not sure what, if anything, can be done to change them now. Kind of miss having pets rather than living in the same house with some cats.

But now to the question. Last time we tried to take them to the vet it was chaos trying to get them into cages and took tranquilizers from the vet (that really didn't change much) and two full days of attempts. As well as many scratches and bandaids. We live on the west coast of Florida and our worry is with what we have right now. Hurricane Elsa looks to be headed this way but if we need to evacuate we have no clue how we will every get them in the carriers. And no, they won't go in for treats or food or things like that as someone (not me) gives them tuna, turkey, squeeze treats and snacks all the time so nothing is "special" to them. Then again that's probably why they treat my better half better.

Thanks for your help.
 

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That’s very scary. I’m sorry you’re faced with that possibility. I lived in Florida at one point and had to evacuate because of a hurricane. And I had to evacuate last fall because of a wildfire with about an hour to pack up and go with three cats, one of whom is a former feral. What kind of tranquilizer did the vet give you? I’ve used gabapentin with Mocha, and it made her completely able to be handled. She even purred. In my case, I couldn’t use I because we had so little time to evacuate. But perhaps with the hurricane, you might have more warning. I’d talk to your vet and see if there's something faster acting that they might eat in food. But the gabapentin should work if you have enough time. I hope you don’t have to evacuate. :crossfingers:
 
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phlyx

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Thanks for the suggestion and we'll check that out. We have been trying all different types of calming stuff over the counter and really hadn't seen any change at all. We gave up on that but was thinking if we could settle them down, mainly the tux, and gave her attention while she's relaxed, she would come to look forward to it. We have done it in a while but the times we could pick her up when she was smaller, she would shiver and hide her head and the look on her face was like we were getting ready to throw her into a pit of wolves. But she picks on the tort like there's no tomorrow and terrifies her. She even growled at a UPS delivery guy coming up the sidewalk one time, pretty funny. But wish we had something that would just take the edge off her attitude a while.
 
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