Help needed from breeders

jcat

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Originally Posted by Phil Morland

Is it possible for kittens from the same litter to have different fathers?

No breeder here, but it's possible for litter mates to have different fathers. Sophie is a gorgeous girl.
 

kai bengals

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Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45

Nial - since you mentioned American SH it could be a possible Oci/ASH rather then Oci/Bengal. The only thing is chocolate is not a color found in ASH nor Bengals. It would have to come from the Ocicat.

Would be interesting if we could find out what really was in the cat. The head color is slightly different then the body markings. Maybe a possible Silver Tabby ASH to a Chocolate Tabby Oci????
Take a look at the bengal at this link:

http://www.dicapriobengals.com/MyPur...ve%20Page.html

There was quite alot of debate between judges and breeders at a show about what this girl's real color was. She was DNA tested and her color is Seal Silver Sepia, but she was really throwing everyone with that chocolate looking marbling.
 

goldenkitty45

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WEIRD Nial - I never would have gotten those colors out of her! But the OP's cat looks more chocolate. However if the mom was this color, then no way would you have a red tabby male as mom gives color to the males.

To the OP - yes its very possible to have several fathers involved in one litter.

There was another TCS member that had a very unusual cat and the sister too - they were out of a blue mother (forgot what the father was), but her cat was a smoke chocolate ticked tabby longhair and the sister was a silver mackerel tabby. We have yet to figure out how that happened.

This is another mystery on color and more complicated genetics involved!

Mother Nature never ceases to amaze!



Added - then again - perhaps this is not chocolate but cinnamon! That may account for a "red" brother. Its definately not a brown in any sense - looking at the pics again, I'm thinking possible cimmamon. Any one else venture a guess here?
 
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phil morland

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This whole genetics thing is very interesting. When I was a teenager (many moons ago now) I used to breed budgerigars and was amazed then at the different mutations that were bred. Looking at Sophie now, the stripes on her body have got a reddish tinge, I think she is more likely cinnamon coloured than chocolate. So I guess that would make here a "Cinnamon Classic Tabby Domestic Shorthair".

I am seriously considering learning about showing her in the Household Pet catorgary at shows, and would also like to learn more about cat genetics. Can anybody recommend any decent books that cover both subjects? Thanks again.
 

goldenkitty45

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Most genetics are not that detailed. I have Ocicats and are still working on learning how those colors work. My first Oci was chocolate spotted; my current Oci is a cinnamon (which is a red-chocolate color), and will be getting another chocolate in the spring. I wanted chocolate-silver, but that's not to be.....

I love genetics but its hard to comprehend at times. I'm good at the basics, but not when it comes to the non-normal colors


A lot of in here show either household pets and/or purebreds - so any show questions you have, just start a new thread and ask away - we'll be glad to help you out.

I think I'd change her to a cinnamon classic tabby for show color purposes. Then see what the judges have to say when you have her in the ring.


I sent this link to one of my Ocicat breeders who is very good with genetics to see what she says the color is.
 

goldenkitty45

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Well we ALL got her pegged wrong (especially Nial and I). This is Anne's reply back to me after she looked at the pictures.

"She's pointed, that's why the color is so light on the body as opposed to the head. But the true color is always the tail tip (or head color) and you can see that it's basically black (seal).

In a Bengal, she would be a snow leopard. But she doesn't really look like a Bengal much, she's just a nice pointed tabby"

Anne

So that means if you show her she would be classified as a seal lynx point tabby (shorthair class of course).

Anne knows her stuff on genetics!
 
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phil morland

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Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45

Well we ALL got her pegged wrong (especially Nial and I). This is Anne's reply back to me after she looked at the pictures.

"She's pointed, that's why the color is so light on the body as opposed to the head. But the true color is always the tail tip (or head color) and you can see that it's basically black (seal).

In a Bengal, she would be a snow leopard. But she doesn't really look like a Bengal much, she's just a nice pointed tabby"

Anne

So that means if you show her she would be classified as a seal lynx point tabby (shorthair class of course).

Anne knows her stuff on genetics!
Oh, thank you so much for doing that, please pass on my gratitude to your friend Anne for sharing her expertise. This has been like a good old detective game. Nial, yourself and the other posters set the clues and Anne came in and solved the mystery! A big thank you to you all. So I think, tentatively, that Sophie's correct description is "Seal Lynx Point Classic Tabby Domestic Shorthair", (bit of a mouthful!).

Christmas is just around the corner so I am going to ask for a book on showing cats from my family. I'm not sure I will definitely show Sophie but I definitely want to find out if it is feasible for me.

Thanks again everybody, what great members we have here. I only wish my knowledge was such that I could give something back - maybe one day.
 

kai bengals

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Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45

Well we ALL got her pegged wrong (especially Nial and I). This is Anne's reply back to me after she looked at the pictures.

"She's pointed, that's why the color is so light on the body as opposed to the head. But the true color is always the tail tip (or head color) and you can see that it's basically black (seal).

In a Bengal, she would be a snow leopard. But she doesn't really look like a Bengal much, she's just a nice pointed tabby"

Anne

So that means if you show her she would be classified as a seal lynx point tabby (shorthair class of course).

Anne knows her stuff on genetics!
Wait, hold up.


A seal lynx point tabby will have BLUE eyes. Back to the drawing board.
 
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phil morland

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Originally Posted by Kai Bengals

Wait, hold up.


A seal lynx point tabby will have BLUE eyes. Back to the drawing board.
Gulp! The mystery deepens!
 

missymotus

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Originally Posted by Kai Bengals

Wait, hold up.


Quite a guessing game
My breed is so easy, with only 6 colours
Domestics can be quite a challenge to figure out.

What colour are her paw pads?
 
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phil morland

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Originally Posted by missymotus



Quite a guessing game
My breed is so easy, with only 6 colours
Domestics can be quite a challenge to figure out.

What colour are her paw pads?
Hi,

Sopie's paw pads are dark brown, dare I say it - like chocolate.
 

missymotus

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My chocolate cats paws are 'chocolate pink', a pinkish brown colour.

Don't have time to get a proper photo right now, this is kittens paw so you can get a glimpse of the chocolate pink
 
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phil morland

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Originally Posted by missymotus

My chocolate cats paws are 'chocolate pink', a pinkish brown colour.

Don't have time to get a proper photo right now, this is kittens paw so you can get a glimpse of the chocolate pink
I can't see a pink tinge on Sophie's paw pads. They are more of a chocolate brown colour. Here's a pic:

 

goldenkitty45

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I sent another email to Anne to relook at the cat - after Nial's comment - he's right - pointed cats have blue eyes.

However Nial - Tonks which are pointed have aqua eye color - do ALL pointed Bengals (snow Bengals) have blue or are they aqua eye color)?
 

kai bengals

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Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45

However Nial - Tonks which are pointed have aqua eye color - do ALL pointed Bengals (snow Bengals) have blue or are they aqua eye color)?
The snow bengals have somewhat varying eye colors, as follows:

Seal Lynx Point: Always brilliant blue

Seal Mink: From Green to Aqua

Seal Sepia: Copper to Gold to lighter Green
 

goldenkitty45

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Ok - had TWO breeders look at the pics and a discussion with them both (at the same time in FB
)

Came to the conclusion that you have a Seal Silver Classic Tabby. If the judge asks why, tell them you think its due to a Burmese restriction color factor.

Daedre thinks that the cat looks like its got a Burmese background rather then a Bengal one.

Let us know what happens when you show her after she is spayed.
 
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phil morland

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Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45

Ok - had TWO breeders look at the pics and a discussion with them both (at the same time in FB
)

Came to the conclusion that you have a Seal Silver Classic Tabby. If the judge asks why, tell them you think its due to a Burmese restriction color factor.

Daedre thinks that the cat looks like its got a Burmese background rather then a Bengal one.

Let us know what happens when you show her after she is spayed.
Haha, I knew somebody would come up trumps eventually. After your post I read about the Burmese breed on here and it makes sense that she may have some of those genes in her as her fur is like silk to touch, very soft with a slight sheen, and she likes to play fetch with just about anything she can put in her mouth. So, nervously, is her correct description now "Seal Silver Lynx Point Classic Tabby Domestic Short Hair" or do I leave the Lynx Point part out. Thanks again to you and all the others that went to some lengths to help me.
 
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