HELP. 18 months separated (introduction not working)

[EricK]

Hello all. We are a standstill in our cats introduction phase, and it's causing great to stress in a personal lives.

I'm on month 18 and I'm at my wits end. Please oh God please help. Here's the backstory:

We had two cats in our household, when my 18-year-old female passed away, the younger 7-8-year-old female was visibly not taking it well. We decided to adopt a cat as fast as we could to get her a play buddy. At an adoption event at the local pet store, I asked what cat was unadoptable? She showed me a larger yellow male neutered 1-3-years-old. Extremely shy.

So we adopted him. He spent 14 days at the adoption agency while we prepared the house for the new family member(and do the current cat time to grieve). At the adoption agency he was put in with many other cats and had absolutely no issues. In fact he cuddled and hid with other cats. Sorry to use the term but he was a big old scaredy cat. He was also a rescue from horder, who had the state take all of her animals away. He was then caged and spent 10 to 14 hours in a vehicle to come to Colorado. So he just likes cars greatly.

We did the slowest introduction and followed everything the guide told us to do. Step by step.

Turns out once he came out of a shell he is not a scaredy cat, he's extremely playful, and super talkative, and extremely lovey. He loves food, cuddles, play and in that order.

Are older female is a very small kind of odd cat. Extremely unfood motivated, she will not eat she doesn't care. She rarely wants attention when she does she wants it on her own terms. She liked to lick herself until she bleeds so she's medicated through her ears, and it worked wonderfully.

So after an extremely slow introduction, we finally gathered the courage to let them meet face to face. He immediately attacked her. And every introduction after that as soon as she turns her back on him he attacks her. Whenever he sneaks through the screen door we installed in the middle of our house he attacks her... Now he stares from time to time and sometimes for long times to try to see her through the screen door. We went back to blocking it so they can't see each other and it literally did no good.

We tried to cage them next to each other, we tried putting one in a cage and alternating which one was in the cage and which one was in the room. We tried having them in a room together and us just physically separating them when they fought. Nothing seems to be working. Whenever she would turn he would go after her.

What makes it worse is the small female it's so over the top she makes it sound like she's being killed, when they're not even hurting each other. Now we are scared to have them together because he attacks her whatever she turns her back.

We even hired a pet psychologist. Watched every single Jackson Galaxy video (which by the way magically leave out a whole bunch of steps, important ones), read dozens of articles, watched every video we could find....

We are basically stuck on the step where we swapped them from one side of the house to the other everyday(with no progress as far as I can tell). We have a screen door in the middle of our house, which I absolutely hate now. We're on the 4th medication on the younger male to try and calm him down and remove aggression. I personally believe it's only minorly working.

I just don't know what to do I'm almost at my wit's end. What do we do next after the swapping phase? How do we make them at least be able to cohabitate?

My wife likes to point out and act like they're making progress. They are literally in the exact same place they were a year ago..... The worst part is she's extremely attached to both cats now, and there's no way one will ever get rehomed. Should rather live like this forever that give up anyway shape or form.

Things to mention, the cats are extremely spoiled. The healthiest food possible to buy. Loads of cat toys. Six cat boxes. Multiple climbing structures. Both cats have an outside pen they can access 24 hours a day (one on each side of the house).

Thank you any help is appreciative.

 

[EricK]

 

[EricK]

 

[rubysmama]

Just posted in your welcome thread, so just another quick hello, and welcome to TCS. So sorry, though, for the situation that's brought you here. It seems you're tried all the usual methods of introductions.

Before I continue, just wanted to ask about the "attacks".

What makes it worse is the small female it's so over the top she makes it sound like she's being killed, when they're not even hurting each other.

Is it possible he's trying to play with her?

 

[EricK]

No.

Just posted in your welcome thread, so just another quick hello, and welcome to TCS. So sorry, though, for the situation that's brought you here. It seems you're tried all the usual methods of introductions.

Before I continue, just wanted to ask about the "attacks".



Is it possible he's trying to play with her?

He get very focused on her them his back hair mohawks, and tail bushes. He is actively trying to harm her.

 

[EricK]

 

[EricK]

Something else to note. They try and lay where ever the one before them slept. Seems like they like each other's smell. So that's a plus

 

[susanm9006]

Has he actually harmed her? Like scratched or bit her? It’s a risk to allow them to be together long enough to find out but perhaps for him it may be novelty, entertainment or even fear that drives his behavior.

 

[EricK]

Has he actually harmed her? Like scratched or bit her? It’s a risk to allow them to be together long enough to find out but perhaps for him it may be novelty, entertainment or even fear that drives his behavior.

As of now he is not harmed her but he will chase her as soon as her back is turned, until she hides in space he can't get into. The entire time she's screaming like she's being murdered. She has scratched his face. This is why we have to keep him separate at all times at this point. We're trying to figure out how to get over that hurdle.

 

[EricK]

Has he actually harmed her? Like scratched or bit her? It’s a risk to allow them to be together long enough to find out but perhaps for him it may be novelty, entertainment or even fear that drives his behavior.

Fear I'm assuming.

 

[rubysmama]

Have you tried Feliway? Some people find it helpful, others not so much. But it might be something to consider.

 

[susanm9006]

Maybe let that interaction happen and let him get whapped a few times. I think he make need those longer exposures, even if not positive to stop focusing on her.

 

[Kflowers]

When she smacks him, she is trying to teach him boundaries and manners. Since he keeps chasing her, he hasn't learned. I think you grab him away from her when she smacks him. If you do, since he likes cuddles, this is actually rewarding him for chasing her. You are also showing her that you favor him, which is going to annoy her. Do not pull her out of her hiding place, you will get hurt.

Speaking from my own experience with years of introducing new cats. There is always the possibility that I am wrong.

Note, where I do not think they intend to hurt each other, explained below, I would not leave them alone together until you are certain they are friendsm due to their age and strength differences.

When he has her cornered where he can't get her, let her do her smacking - it can be 5- 10 really quick smacks until he backs off. She may scratch his eye, but this can be fixed with a cream from the vet and is not an unusual injury when you have more than one cat. When he backs off in that situation you will have made progress.

If a cat is going to kill another cat it will be fast and, probably, over before you can stop it. Males don't usually fight to the death. Females attempt it if there are kittens. If your male was attempting to kill your female she would have sustained long deep scratches the length of her body when he landed on her the first time. Vet visit, stitches. If she wanted to hurt him, she'd have gone for his eyes the minute he cornered her. She did not. At this point it does not sound like either want to hurt the other.

I did have two cats who did not like each other. At one point one flew around the corner into the other. Not knowing what hit him, he ripped a long deep scratch on her side. She shrieked. He recognized her and they bounced apart. Even though they didn't like each other, he didn't intend to hurt her. You see the difference? Yes, she was fine after a few days of keeping it clean.

Another cat, sitting on the dining table to meet a friend of my dog's. The dog kept pushing his nose at the cat. The cat smacked the dog on the bridge of his nose/muzzle so hard the dog's chin banged on the table. After several smacks the dog backed off. The cat never went for the dog's eyes. It was boundaries.

 

[EricK]

Another big issue is whenever I have the small female close to the big male, she gets extremely extremely vocal hissing growling, she's just loud. That excites the situation to a ridiculous level.

 

[Graham18]

I'm sorry that you are dealing with this. I am in a similar situation with my new two year old boy and resident two year old girl though I'm only on month five. My boy really wants to play with my resident cat and he's a very rough player where he will lunge at he, chase her, and try and jump on her while she screams, hisses, growls, hits, etc.

I started giving both of them CBD oil about two months ago and I haven't noticed a huge difference in my boy, my resident cats fear and anxiety has mostly subsided. I still don't allow them to be out together but I make sure to give them treats at a baby gate barrier twice a day. I also got a step in harness and I put that on my new boy for face to face meetings so I have control over him. It took awhile to get him to be "okay" with the harness, and the sessions started off maybe 15 feet away with lots of treats and now I can have them eating a treat less than a foot away and I distract if I see my boy starting to get excited. I'll have the odd instance now where he tries to chase her but can't because I have the leash. It's not perfect and they are nowhere near ready to be out together but it's definitely helped them get more used to eachother.

 

[Jcatbird]

I know this is stressful. I have a very large male in the midst of a Clowder of cats. He takes delight in harassing another large male, Bonjour. Bonjour thinks of himself as a little kitten and runs. The act of running causes a chase. Precious, the aggressor is very excitable. He has small duels with other cats that show anxiety and we sometimes have growling or a swat. Precious does not like to back off and becomes overly stimulated. In some cases just getting between the cats works to break the visual connection and the fuss. At other times Precious is unstoppable. At this time I get him herded over to a very large cage that stays in the main living area. He goes in , usually voluntarily since all kinds of cat luxuries are inside, and he gets a time out until all in the house are settled again. Sometimes face pets on both cats involved work but not if anxiety is high. A human can get swatted accidentally during those times. The time out situation has worked very well for Precious. He seems to need his own private space sometimes where no other cat can take his stuff. And are territorial. It took us time to work out this system and it just appears that Precious is a giant but fearful kitty who needs his own safe place. You might try establishing a private space for each cat inside the larger divided spaces of your house. While each cat may take a loo inside the house of the other, they should not invade that space or take it over. Private and no trespassing, even if you have to shut the door. The large cages allow both cats to see each other safely but also have their own house. You may have to enforce this at first but maybe your newer arrival needs his own territory. You mentioned them laying in each other’s places and that strikes me as trying to take over each other’s place. Dominate behavior. Your smaller cat may be able to establish her place as first resident but with him being larger, that may be hard for her. Giving him his privacy may help but doing it in places that are United for both may help them to cohabitate. Precious usually intermingles now with no problems. I have brought in a lot of rescues that had to learn to cohabitate. It is my observation that the most timid of cats come out of their shell once they understand they are there as residents and Derek they must claim their place in their new world. I think it is partially dominance, partially fear and , on the part of established residents, it is teaching house rules along with holding on to their world as they know it. I don’t know if shared play could help. I have had cats unite to defeat a foe in the shape of a toy. They become so engrossed in the act of play that they forget for a moment that they are battling for dominance. Catnip and silver vine may help too. I put catnip on my shoes when working with two cats at once and they focus on my feet rather than each other. Wear thick shoes! Lol Be wary if using play to bond as it can quickly become a competition for the toy. Two toys may be better. If you need to use separate toys, Keep them lunging away from each other, rather than towards the same spot. Separate them after play since excitement is running high. Lots of praise for both after any good interaction. You said that food won’t work with your female. Have you tried using Gerber 2nd foods all meat baby food? Slightly warm may work better. Although chicken is the preferred one due to natural cat diets, the ham is preferred by a few of my cats. It is a temporary tool and not meant as a permanent part of their diet. Don’t give up! It takes some detective work to figure out what the cats are trying to express but , out of a couple of hundred cats, I have never had one actually try to kill another. Battles , yelling and fusses happen but they just need to find a balance they can both live with. Bravo for you both for not rehoming that guy and continuing to work on a solution. Please keep us updated and welcome to the site! I am sure that others will have ideas for you as well. May peace come to your house to stay!

 

[julia123123]

Oh, I'm so sorry. This JUST happened to me. Our 12 year old female lost her companion 6 months ago, a nearly 20 year old male. We were too upset to adopt right away, but gave it a try about 2 months ago. We adopted a one year old male from a local shelter. Sweet, sweet boy, but the more he got used to our house and came out of his shell, the more rambunctious and playful he became. We spent a fortune on toys for him, but what he REALLY wanted to do was sneak-attack our older female. She'd scream bloody murder. She's small, and he was a BIG, heavy cat. After a month of trying an hour of direct play per day, plus separate areas, feliway, etc., etc., we had to take him back to the shelter. He'd started biting her when he pounced and I just couldn't take it. I cried the whole time and praised him as a cat, but explained that our family wasn't the right fit. He needed a family with a young cat to play with. Cats are flying out of the shelters right now (people working from home more) and he was adopted within a day or so. I felt awful, but I knew that his needs weren't being met and neither were hers. And so the search begins again to find a good companion! I'm going to go with an older (5?) cat and cross my fingers that it works. I hope you can figure something out. Try not to feel bad, whatever you decide to do. You're doing the best that you can!

 

[maggie101]

Hello all. We are a standstill in our cats introduction phase, and it's causing great to stress in a personal lives.

I'm on month 18 and I'm at my wits end. Please oh God please help. Here's the backstory:

We had two cats in our household, when my 18-year-old female passed away, the younger 7-8-year-old female was visibly not taking it well. We decided to adopt a cat as fast as we could to get her a play buddy. At an adoption event at the local pet store, I asked what cat was unadoptable? She showed me a larger yellow male neutered 1-3-years-old. Extremely shy.

So we adopted him. He spent 14 days at the adoption agency while we prepared the house for the new family member(and do the current cat time to grieve). At the adoption agency he was put in with many other cats and had absolutely no issues. In fact he cuddled and hid with other cats. Sorry to use the term but he was a big old scaredy cat. He was also a rescue from horder, who had the state take all of her animals away. He was then caged and spent 10 to 14 hours in a vehicle to come to Colorado. So he just likes cars greatly.

We did the slowest introduction and followed everything the guide told us to do. Step by step.

Turns out once he came out of a shell he is not a scaredy cat, he's extremely playful, and super talkative, and extremely lovey. He loves food, cuddles, play and in that order.

Are older female is a very small kind of odd cat. Extremely unfood motivated, she will not eat she doesn't care. She rarely wants attention when she does she wants it on her own terms. She liked to lick herself until she bleeds so she's medicated through her ears, and it worked wonderfully.

So after an extremely slow introduction, we finally gathered the courage to let them meet face to face. He immediately attacked her. And every introduction after that as soon as she turns her back on him he attacks her. Whenever he sneaks through the screen door we installed in the middle of our house he attacks her... Now he stares from time to time and sometimes for long times to try to see her through the screen door. We went back to blocking it so they can't see each other and it literally did no good.

We tried to cage them next to each other, we tried putting one in a cage and alternating which one was in the cage and which one was in the room. We tried having them in a room together and us just physically separating them when they fought. Nothing seems to be working. Whenever she would turn he would go after her.

What makes it worse is the small female it's so over the top she makes it sound like she's being killed, when they're not even hurting each other. Now we are scared to have them together because he attacks her whatever she turns her back.

We even hired a pet psychologist. Watched every single Jackson Galaxy video (which by the way magically leave out a whole bunch of steps, important ones), read dozens of articles, watched every video we could find....

We are basically stuck on the step where we swapped them from one side of the house to the other everyday(with no progress as far as I can tell). We have a screen door in the middle of our house, which I absolutely hate now. We're on the 4th medication on the younger male to try and calm him down and remove aggression. I personally believe it's only minorly working.

I just don't know what to do I'm almost at my wit's end. What do we do next after the swapping phase? How do we make them at least be able to cohabitate?

My wife likes to point out and act like they're making progress. They are literally in the exact same place they were a year ago..... The worst part is she's extremely attached to both cats now, and there's no way one will ever get rehomed. Should rather live like this forever that give up anyway shape or form.

Things to mention, the cats are extremely spoiled. The healthiest food possible to buy. Loads of cat toys. Six cat boxes. Multiple climbing structures. Both cats have an outside pen they can access 24 hours a day (one on each side of the house).

Thank you any help is appreciative.

This sounds so much like my situation.peaches is queen so she screeches when Maggie wants to play with her every night. Peaches has bit her once. Because Maggie is territorial she does not like Coco spending time with me and sleeping in her spot. I have started locking Maggie with me when I go to bed. She is clicker trained to come when called whenever she bothers peaches. Whenever fighting starts,make a loud noise to startle them. My cats don't like it when I open cuboards,bang dishes,etc. Distract the male with a wand toy. Having places where one can jump high helps. Coco sleeps on my couch. Maggie will chase her til she jumps up. I also suggest no longer trying to get them acquainted.

 

[Jessica_Merlin_Meep]

Any updates with your kitties? We are in month 15 and I’m over it. It’s so hard if only one person is home or you are both working, life just complicates more when you are dealing with this and regular life stuff and we will more than likely be rehoming if this doesn’t resolve soon.