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Discussion in 'IMO: In My Opinion' started by donutte, May 8, 2019.

  1. Willowy

    Willowy TCS Member Top Cat

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    I kind of have doubts about that, unless there's been absolute malfeasance for the past few years. Money doesn't come out of nowhere, and if they're already doing their best with what they have, there isn't going to just be extra money lying around. There are federal grants townships receive, too.

    The township boards here do a decent job, for the most part. Only so much they can do without enough money though; no way to find more money if you're already doing your best.

    Fact: rural living is not cost-effective. Nobody could afford to do it without "socialism". Cities are subsidizing rural areas, in medical matters and other stuff like road maintenance too. Obviously I don't mind that, but let's not pretend rural areas are some kind of Libertarian utopia where everybody takes care of themselves.
    I guess I don't think that would make much difference. Pet insurance (which is unregulated) is fairly expensive considering the relatively low cost of vet care (a week at the vet in critical care is not going to cost $70,000 like it will at a human hospital). So I don't think unregulated human insurance would be affordable either.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2019

  2. denice

    denice Advisor Staff Member Advisor

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    I saw the first price on a drug commercial. A month of maintenance dose of Xarelto is $468.00.
     

  3. JamesCalifornia

    JamesCalifornia TCS Member Top Cat

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    [​IMG] :thud:
     

  4. Talien

    Talien TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    Yeah.....if you think that's bad just wait, the real shockers are yet to come. I wouldn't be surprised if some commercials get pulled rather than reveal the costs.
     

  5. Willowy

    Willowy TCS Member Top Cat

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    Yeah that's not the worst. My friend has epilepsy and her meds cost over $4000 a month, although I don't know what each one costs individually. I guess we'll find out soon!
     

  6. doomsdave

    doomsdave TCS Member Top Cat

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    okay

    Like wow

    I'm not saying health care is free, and the docs, nurses and others can only agree.

    But

    Give me a predictable tax

    Instead of unpredictable out of network robbery!

    How can it be clearer than that?

    HELLLO!
    So debate me. Damn. This is insane.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2019
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  7. denice

    denice Advisor Staff Member Advisor

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    Xarelto usually isn't the only medication someone is taking. That is started when someone has clogged arteries. They often have had a heart attack and stents put in. That is just one medicine they take on a regular basis.
     

  8. Jem

    Jem TCS Member Top Cat

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    I have personally been treated fine. All regular check ups, no extra charge. Any visit to a clinic or ER, no extra charge. Expensive tests, no extra charge.
    My cousin, who lived in the hospital for close to 6 months, waiting for a lung transplant, only had to pay extra for things like having TV and such (not necessary things that were directly related to her health.) Unfortunately she passed away before any lungs were available.
    My step dad who suffered a heart attack, was seen, treated and has regular, ongoing check ups. And the only thing he has to pay for are his meds, which now only includes a blood thinner (not overly expensive).
    My co-worker recently broke her ankle, and including her initial visit to the ER and casting to stabilize, a consultation with the orthopedic surgeon the following week and a re-cast, a followup with the surgeon and another re-cast with different material 2 weeks after that, and then a final check up with the surgeon 2 weeks after that, to see if she could start to weight bare...the only thing she had to pay for was her boot, so she would not have to use crutches. She still has one more appointment left to remove the cast when everything is healed.
    I have a friend who's child has a rare stomach/intestine disease, his hospital stays and surgeries were extensive and he may still need more corrective surgeries as he grows up. My friend is eternally grateful to those at the pediatric hospital he stayed at, at one point, for close to 3 months.

    I also work in physical therapy, and A LOT of those people who you say complain about having to wait 6 months, yes they do, but guess what, most of them are the same people who expect that a little pill should have helped them...not exercise, or physical therapy, or massage, or losing weight, eating better, or any preventative care that they would have to work at to make them feel better or even correct, which would have prevented them needing the surgery to begin with. Most of them are not a priority. But if that person who needs corrective knee surgery instead needed a double mastectomy from cancer, they would not have to wait and not only that but reconstructive surgery would also be covered once the tissue was healed and cancer was gone, if they chose to have their breasts reconstructed.

    As I said, there are pros and cons, but I would much rather pay regular taxes and know that in an emergency, my life does not depend on my income or if I have the right insurance plan.
     

  9. denice

    denice Advisor Staff Member Advisor

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    Xarelto is a blood thinner and here in the U.S. it is $468 a month. Canada negotiates prices on medications which other then the VA I believe the U.S. doesn't do. That is why at one time people close to the Canadian border went to Canada to get their medicine. Canada was trying to stop that I don't know if they succeeded or not. All of the people crossing the border for their medicine was causing issues with their negotiated prices.

    There are problems with that though. Many drugs are developed in the U.S. and they are developed because the drug companies can recoup those development costs with the protected market from the patents here in the U.S. Those are taken away then those R & D costs are going to have to be paid for somehow.
     

  10. Talien

    Talien TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    Yeah I can believe that quite a few people who complain are at least partially at fault for the condition they're in. I know a few people personally who fully realize it's their own fault for being overweight and having to deal with all the health problems that come with it, but either lack the willpower to do anything about it or just don't want to make the effort.

    And I think that most people, if they're really honest with themselves, would rather pay regular taxes to be guaranteed they'll be taken care of when they need it, but things are never as simple as "let's change things".

    People can want that until they're blue in the face but it'll never happen until something is done about the DC cesspool. The US can't afford the social programs we have now much less one as big as socialized medicine being added to the pile, and that's presuming we somehow are able to recruit or train enough skilled medical personnel to handle taking care of a population the size of ours.

    If you want it that badly then hold your elected officials accountable for their graft, corruption, and waste instead of letting them get away with it.
     
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  11. JamesCalifornia

    JamesCalifornia TCS Member Top Cat

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    ~ But politicians will tell us they "can do - just vote for me ! " And people will believe because they either want to or are uninformed enough to know the difference.
    I remember an aid to Richard Nixon telling about the HMO proposals being looked over. Nixon's first words were " Somebody could really make some money on this thing".
    That's politics in big America.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2019

  12. denice

    denice Advisor Staff Member Advisor

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    For some people it is the luck or lack of luck in the draw when it comes to genetics. We have all known or heard of people who have an atrocious diet, are couch potatoes and heavy smokers yet they live to a ripe old age with no major health issues. We also know or have heard of people who do take care of themselves, they watch their diet the majority of the time. They exercise, have never smoked or been heavy drinkers but they still have major health issues.

    Obesity rates also go up as you go down the socioeconomic scale because processed refined foods are the cheapest food. I live in a middle class bedroom community and I also live close to the high school and I rarely see an overweight teenager. The next community over going closer to Columbus is much lower on the socioeconomic scale and there is a big difference. A lot of overweight teenagers and quite a few are obese or even morbidly obese as teenagers.
     
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  13. Stinky15

    Stinky15 TCS Member Super Cat

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    That would be fine to me. Personally I don't think Prescription drugs should be adverstised.
    I had a Dr. tell me that when he has a patient come in and demand they prescribe such and such drug that he prescribes something else.
     
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  14. doomsdave

    doomsdave TCS Member Top Cat

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    The reason for the gross expense is a lack of "government interference" and keeping a lid on the cost of everything medical.

    I certainly agree that college tuition should be regulated, and that colleges be left holding the bag for unpaid student loans, but that's another thread.

    As for a shortage of doctors, the doctors themselves have largely caused it. Back in the 1970s the MDs all got together to keep their club exclusive and got the medical schools to force up the criteria for entrance. Prior to that time, good competent people could be doctors, but in the 1970s and after they couldn't even get into medical school. Med schools instead began to court "superstars" who, largely, weren't interesting in practicing away from big cities.
     
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  15. doomsdave

    doomsdave TCS Member Top Cat

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    We can do it here in America, too. Get (force) everyone to get together and talk and act.
     
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  16. Talien

    Talien TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    The cost of medical procedures ties into insurance being totally unregulated. Hospitals milk the hell out of insurance carriers, who then pay whatever the Hospitals charge then pass that cost on to their subscribers rather than argue/negotiate/fight for lower costs. Have you ever noticed how much cheaper a procedure is when you pay out of pocket? Half or less of what would be billed to insurance.

    I had not heard of what you mentioned about MDs getting med schools to up entrance requirements. If this is true then yes, it would definitely be part of the problem. I'll have to look into that and see what I can dig up. Although at first glance it doesn't make much sense. By artificially raising the bar on entry less people can get in, meaning they make less money on tuition.

    Forcing people to do anything is the province of dictatorships, unless you mean your elected officials. Although understandable in that case (believe me, there are many that I'd like to kick in the ass to get them moving on things they are ignoring) is still not how to do things. You can, however, hold them accountable for what they do and don't do. If you don't like how a state or local official is doing their job you always have the option of petitioning for a recall election. A senator or representative, however......yeah you're pretty much SOL until their term ends.
     

  17. Willowy

    Willowy TCS Member Top Cat

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    I just had a long conversation with a veteran about his triple bypass at the VA hospital. He says he's been under their care, in 2 different hospitals, since 1994 (he's like 90, so lots of different problems), and he was just going on and on about how nice they are and how he got the best care and they fixed everything that's wrong with him, and so on. I thought of this statement and laughed :D.
    Hmm. I have federal employee's insurance so it might be different. But I don't think this is true at all. I once got an MRI, they billed $4000, and my insurance paid $700. And they took it without charging me for the remainder, because the insurance company had negotiated with them to take what they pay. As I understand it, uninsured people pay WAY more than what insurance companies pay. How else could insurance be so profitable?
     
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  18. Talien

    Talien TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    My dad and uncle were denied VA benefits (I forget why, I'll have to ask) and one of my neighbors has to drive 3 hours to get to the nearest VA hospital, sometimes he has to wait hours after his appointment time to be seen because they're understaffed and often running behind. I guess like with a lot of things location might have something to do with it.

    If you're a federal employee then yeah that probably has something to do with it. When I had to go to a hospital for a tooth infection the bill I got went on about how I owed around $900 for the treatment I received (I don't remember the exact amount but I had to laugh because the "treatment" was 15 minutes of waiting, then a less than 10 minute conversation with a Doctor followed by an antibiotic prescription) but since I was paying out of pocket they only expected me to pay about half that amount. Around where I used to live this was common, there were quite a few people I knew who went to urgent care clinics when possible, and paid out of pocket at hospitals when it wasn't because their employers didn't provide coverage (or not very good coverage) and they couldn't afford it on their own.

    Insurance companies stay profitable because they pass those costs on to their subscribers, much like how businesses stay profitable when they get hit with higher taxes or fees by passing the cost on to the consumer.
     
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  19. Willowy

    Willowy TCS Member Top Cat

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    It has to do with how much money they make. The VA is only supposed to be for veterans with no other options. My dad can't go to a VA hospital because he's a 20-year retiree and has a pension and Tricare For Life.
    Isn't that how all doctors/hospitals are? LOL, I guess I haven't had the best medical experiences.
    I've heard of other insurance companies doing the same. I really don't think any of them just pay whatever the hospital wants.
    Around here, I'm told, they don't offer that option at the desk but if you call the hospital's finance people they'll "work something out", which, for my brother, ended up being about half. But I don't know if that's what they always do or if they take it case-by-case.

    Hehe, once my dad called the clinic and asked them how much it would cost for him to come in and get some antibiotics. They told him he has good insurance and don't worry about it. No, he wanted to know how much a visit COSTS. The desk lady couldn't tell him and was getting pretty flustered. I think forcing hospitals to actually have a price sheet would be a good thing.
     

  20. JamesCalifornia

    JamesCalifornia TCS Member Top Cat

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    ~ Here is something I picked up from Quora that seems to explain the health care delima - sadly.
    Is the healthcare in the US really that expensive? Why are so many people against universal healthcare?
    F Sutton, Stock Trader, electrical engineer
    I spent a couple of weeks in the hospital. I had one of those “inexpensive” 80/20 policies where the insurance covers 80% of the expenses, and you cover the remaining 20%.
    The total bill was huge, on the order of nearly $100,000.
    My insurance company “negotiated their portion” with the hospital, doctors, and so on, and eventually paid about $11,000. I got billed over $10,000.
    When I called the hospital to ask why my portion was so high, the response was “we have a contract with the insurance company which explains why their portion was so low. We have no such contract with you. Pay up or else.”
    Sans insurance, I would have been held responsible for the whole $100,000, which the hospital would have sold almost immediately (as they did with my ultimate bill) to collection agencies at 10 - 20 cents on the dollar, meaning that had my cash bill been $100,000 they would have settled for about $20,000 with a collection agency.
    What about that seems fair?
    I’d guess that the reason most people who are against a universal health care program have simply never been through any such situation with a hospital or doctor (those, btw, were a part of the hospital bill I received). But they will be one day, and probably change their tune. By then, of course, it will be too late.
    42.9k views · ·
     
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