Having a Pity-Party; Everyone's Invited! (long)

[ldg]

If you were pretty close when she was a teen, a time when most kids rebel against their parents, it could be she's going through that phase now.

I was never close to my mom - we were a family that hugged and said "I love you," but we rarely talked about stuff going on in our lives to each other, other than calendar facts LOL. But I still went through a phase where I started ditching school, experimented with drinking and pot and lied to them about everything. They certainly never set that kind of example, and my brother and sister never really went through THAT phase - they rebelled in their own ways. I have no idea why I was like that. But because I was raised to be caring and responsible, I didn't STAY that way.

My parents raised me to expect that once I graduated high school I was on my own, college or no (and I'd been working since - a kid, actually, gardening, ironing and babysitting, then got a "job job" at 14 - they forced me to save for college from a young age) - and if I chose to live at home, I'd be paying rent, my share of the phone and electric bills, I could not use their car, and I'd be paying rent, average for the area - but I'd still have to live by their rules.

That was an incentive to move! I opted for moving out to go to college - and I had to either get rid of my stuff, pack it for storage, or take it with me. No keeping "my room." (Same thing for my older brother and sister). The did loan me the money to get an apartment (needed security deposit), but it was in a written contract, and I had to pay the current interest rate.

I stayed in touch with them but lived my own life, and we'd get together for (most) holidays. It was a few years after college graduation that we started talking more regularly, and in my 30s that we started talking every couple of weeks.

So if you were close, I think you just need some distance for a while. She's probably going through a phase - a very self-centered one - and whether you want to keep trying to avoid her in your home is up to you.

I know it's hurtful - but that "distancing" oneself from their parents is a normal part of growing up. I know I said and did very hurtful things, and I did apologize for them (though I really meant it when I apologized again years later).

I had to learn from my own mistakes. I had to get married and divorced to get to a place with myself and in my understanding of relationships where I was ready when I did meet my real soul mate.

I'm so sorry it's been like this... it would be just as hurtful whether she lived at home or not... but it does sound like she needs to grow up, and that will happen faster if you stop trying to protect her from herself.

 

[mystik spiral]

First of all, let me admit that I didn't read all the replies to this topic...

Now. My older sister was a goody-two-shoes throughout high school. Always on the honor roll, always reliable. My parents said more than once that they wished I was more like her. She went to college right out of high school, and then dropped out after a year and a half. She moved to California with a friend she had met years before in dance class (we live in Colorado and my parents have a SEVERE bias against Californians). She partied and partied and partied. She was working at a day care center in CA and living with two gay guys. NOTE - I'm the most avid heterosexual gay rights activist you could ever meet and I have NO problem with any two people who fall in love with who they want to fall in love with... BUT my parents are VERY Catholic and while they are semi-gay rights people, I know they still have a problem with it...

Anyway, my sister was living a lifestyle that my parents had LOTS of problems with. After a few years, she moved back home, back with my parents, and enrolled in school part time to earn her degree. She continued to date less than desirable men. There was the blackjack dealer who thought he was an author and talk show host because he had a cable access show. There was the guy who was kind of nice but had piercings in about every visible patch of skin. Then there was Mike... My sister actually moved in with Mike and his mom. That ended when he took her to dinner for her birthday and proceeded to beat her and leave her alone, drunk, in a parking lot.

Today, my sister is married to a great man, and has three great kids. She met my BIL when she was 28, and was married just shy of her 30th birthday. I guess my point is to stay positive. Your daughter is still very young, and likely going through a very rebellious phase. If and when she grows up, she will realize how much you have done for her. I hated my parents when I was in high school. But the older I get, the more I realize how lucky I am. I hope your daughter experiences the same revelation.

 

[libby74]

I want to thank everyone for the kind words and the advice. I do wish DD would decide to head out on her own, but I simply can't push her out the door. When I mentioned to DH that our daughter should probably get a place of her own he answered, "That's when the real trouble would start for her." I know what he means; she's very immature and naive, and anyone could and would take advantage of that. And as much as she wants to be an independent adult, she isn't ready. Three different friends invited her to move in with them last year and she turned them all down, said she couldn't afford it. And that was before she had insurance and car payments.

I'm afraid we're stuck with her for now, unless the latest soulmate wants to marry her sometime soon. This whole mess makes me wonder if I ever treated my own Mom this way; I sure hope not. I do think she's going thru some sort of rebellious phase, and I do understand that. What I don't understand is how she can be so disrespectful and rude. Hopefully, she'll realize what a fool she's being and start acting like her old self some day. If not, DH might not have much of a say in whether she continues to live with us. I didn't sign up to live with a brat, and I don't think I can put up with it much longer.

 

[februa]

Im wondering if anyone (like your DH) has openly spoken to your daughter about how the situation between the 2 of you is making her feel. Because it sounds to me like most of her "disrespect" is defensive reactions on her part, and a lot of your "offense" is really a defensive response on your part. I would recommend a quick reading of something like http://www.pndc.com/intro.php and honestly ask yourself if the communication problems between you and your daughter are falling along these lines, as there are some very easy communication tools and skills you can use to prevent defensive comments and responses.
I cant even imagine the stress I would be under and the resentment I would hold against my parents if on the one hand they are saying they wished I would grow up and be more responsible, but on the other they are giving me a curfew and demanding to know personal information about everyone I talk to. You do not sound like you trust or have any faith in your daughter at all, and trust me - if a total stranger is getting this feeling, she is having it too. I I seem to disagree with a lot of people here in that I dont think you can demand anyone respect *you* - even if they live in your house (your rules, sure, to expect to not be disrespected -yes). Respect is something that is earned by how you behave, and at best, making such a demand with threats attached as some suggest ("Ill kick you out if..." etc) will only breed further disrespect and resentment. If your daughter has started rolling her eyes and saying "get over it" to you I assume you've mentioned your issues (or Im sure as she sees it, guilt tripped her about it) to her numerous times, which is really a waste of breath as it only angers her and then makes you feel worse.
I think the reality is sometimes we are friends with our parents and sometimes we are not. What you need to come to believe is that even if your daughter doesnt want to be your friend, you are still her mother and she loves you. Forever.
I do think you should have your hubby speak to your daughter on your behalf to see what is up and how she feels and what she wants (not just now, but say in the next 3 years), because it seems as if theres too much tension for the two of you (you and dd) to settle down and have an open honest conversation without repeating the communication breakdowns youve already detailed....
Best of luck.

 

[tara g]

My situation was the other way around - my mom was terrible towards me in my teen years. I moved out at 18, two months after graduation, to live with my now-husband. She was petty and told my family in NJ that he would beat me and that I was scared to speak up at a holiday gathering. Family that he had not had a chance to meet yet, either. She had told me she wished I was never born at times, called me a b---h, etc. My brother was always the apple of her eye, and at 20 years old he mooches off of her bad. According to my grandma, he has to pay $200-250 in rent to her every month since he racked up $3k in "debt" to her on car parts and gas, even though he has a job. He eats at Burger King or Cookout almost every night, and goes to the movies with a female friend constantly. The most he has hurt her was when he admitted to her that he was gay, 3 years ago. I don't know what I ever did to her, but the most we'd ever do together was go to Six Flags. Now that I no longer live there, we talk more and get along better. She still tells my grandma (who's more of a mom to me, and she's told my mom that I've taken her place in her heart) that I never call to talk to her, but when I do she's always watching a show or just hands the phone off to my dad before I can say anything. It stinks having such a crappy relationship when I see so many of my friends having a good one, and have always had a good one, with their moms. Mine finds fault in everything I do, even though I have a good job, go to college, have a house, a wonderful husband, etc, all at 23.

I do think your DD needs a wake up call of some sort. She should not be disrespecting you and your husband in your home the way that she is. She needs to be paying that car loan by herself to learn some responsibility. I've seen it many times where a parent co-signs, a child gets disrespectful, and then lapses on the car payments because it will ruin their parents' credit too if they don't pay for it. Thinking every person is her soulmate sounds like how I was in HS ... except I never went as far as to get engaged or dress shop or be horrible to my family over it. Eventually something in reality will slap her upside the head and she'll realize what a jerk she is being. I'm glad I dont want kids haha. (My mom also once told me "I hope you end up weighing 900 lbs, cant move, and have a daughter as bad as you.")

Hope things get better soon!

 

[marycatherine]

Why not try to get the daughter into some sort of counseling? It sounds like the change is completely the opposite of her former self, maybe talking it out with someone qualified will help her work through some things?

 

[Winchester]

I wonder if she is subconsciously using you as the catalyst for the break-up with the fiance/boyfriend? And perhaps this is why she's treating you so badly? (Now, I am not saying it was your fault; please don't misunderstand. But perhaps, in her mind right now, you're her scapegoat?)

Have you actually sat her down and said, "Look, we need to talk." And then just tell her how you feel about everything. Do you feel you can do that? Or is she not in that position to listen to you yet?

Years ago, when our DS went off to college, we made a habit to visit pretty much every week. One day we went into his room after a football game (he played football and we'd go to see his games) and I saw row after row after of beer cans. I let it go.

The next time he came home and he had beer, I said, "DS, we need to talk. Please sit down." He wasn't real happy about it, but we sat at the kitchen table for quite a while. I told him that I had seen all the empty cans in his room. And that, quite honestly, I couldn't condone it. And I wouldn't. I knew that he was out on his own. But he was also still underage and, if anything happened, he had to know that I was not going to bail him out of any trouble. I loved him, but it wasn't going to happen. I was very quiet about the whole thing, didn't yell or scream at him, just sat there and told him exactly how I felt. He sat there, listened to me (thank goodness), got up and walked away. I never mentioned it again. The next time we went down to college, the empty cans were gone. (I'm sure he was still drinking, but at least the cans were gone.....not that that made it any better.)

I also agree with those who have said that your DH should try to talk to your DD. Some how, she needs to realize that what she's doing is wrong. It could be that she's just now going through her rebellious stage, especially since she had always been such a good person prior to this. But that doesn't mean you have to put up with it.

 

[libby74]

Originally Posted by marycatherine

Why not try to get the daughter into some sort of counseling? It sounds like the change is completely the opposite of her former self, maybe talking it out with someone qualified will help her work through some things?

We've actually gone to family counseling with her over the constant lying. We were told to assume she's being dishonest until she can prove otherwise. That's not a nice way to live, believe me. DD does talk things over with anyone who will listen to her---Grandma, friends, people at work, strangers on the street; she is very open about sharing her problems with people. She doesn't think she's done anything wrong or out of the ordinary, altho' she did admit 'maybe I should have come to your birthday party.'

You do not sound like you trust or have any faith in your daughter at all,

Unfortunately, I don't trust her. A couple of months ago, DD and her best friend were sitting at my kitchen table, talking. Her friend flat out asked her, "Why do you lie to your folks all the time? All that does is get you in trouble." DD's reply was, "I don't know, I just do." DD has literally looked me in the eyes and told me, "When I'm going out with someone, I always lie to you about it." I've tried to impress upon her how self-defeating that is; how does she expect us to say "Hey, what a great guy!" when she's so willing to lie to us about him?

I want to trust her, I honestly do, but how can I? For some reason, I'd never connected being lied to as her being disrespectful until someone mentioned it here. I take being lied to or disrespected very personally. I expect better from someone I love.

 

[dusty's mom]

Originally Posted by libby74

<snip>


Unfortunately, I don't trust her. A couple of months ago, DD and her best friend were sitting at my kitchen table, talking. Her friend flat out asked her, "Why do you lie to your folks all the time? All that does is get you in trouble." DD's reply was, "I don't know, I just do." DD has literally looked me in the eyes and told me, "When I'm going out with someone, I always lie to you about it." I've tried to impress upon her how self-defeating that is; how does she expect us to say "Hey, what a great guy!" when she's so willing to lie to us about him?

I want to trust her, I honestly do, but how can I? For some reason, I'd never connected being lied to as her being disrespectful until someone mentioned it here. I take being lied to or disrespected very personally. I expect better from someone I love.

I stand by my tough love recommendation. I'm sorry your husband won't back you on the moving out part. Perhaps the counselor can persuade him that a tough approach is the best approach. And if, for some reason, DD quits going to counseling, then go with your husband because I believe your DD can and might plant a wedge in your marital relationship. Don't let her have that power.