Harvey Weinstein/kevin Spacey/roy Moore, Etc, Etc.

Discussion in 'IMO: In My Opinion' started by denice, Oct 7, 2017.

  1. xlpooper

    xlpooper TCS Member Top Cat

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    How would we "all end up in burka's?"
     
  2. Willowy

    Willowy TCS Member Top Cat

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    You do know that the point of burkas is to prevent men from getting aroused due to seeing a woman's body, right? The women are forced to "dress modestly" to keep men from looking at them. It's the same among religions like Mennonites and evangelical Christians. Make the women dress a certain way to keep the men from having to control themselves. An ankle-lengh Pentecostal skirt is no different from a burka; it still represents the woman as a sexual temptress that must be covered. If the woman doesn't dress modestly enough, well it's her own fault if a man harasses or abuses her. That's the Pence mindset.
     
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  3. xlpooper

    xlpooper TCS Member Top Cat

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    Uhh, yeah I do know what burka's are for., that isn't what I was asking was it?
    I don't know where you live but I've never even heard of "Pentecostal skirts" and I'm an evangelical Christian
    and I wear jeans most of time.

    That is NOT Pence's mindset at all and you have no basis for saying that.

    No one is going to make anyone wear burka's, that is pure fear mongering.
     
  4. Willowy

    Willowy TCS Member Top Cat

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    I guarantee you that Pence and his pals would love to force women to dress "modestly" if they thought they could get away with it. They would likely go for the Duggar-style of "modesty" over burkas (especially since they hate Muslims so much) but they still want to control what women wear. He would not have his "Pence rule" if he didn't believe that.

    This is not something to get complacent about. I'm sure you've seen the pictures of Afghanistan before the Taliban took over. Women's rights are something that can disappear quickly if you let the wrong people take over.

    And seriously, you've never seen the girls at Walmart or the mall wearing long-sleeve shirts, ankle-length denim skirts, sneakers, and buns in their hair? Those are the Pentecostals. Maybe it's not popular in your area, idk. I see them all the time.
    Why United Pentecostal Churches Say 'No Slacks' for Women
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2017
  5. doomsdave

    doomsdave TCS Member Top Cat

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    Why limit accusations as against men?

    Why not women too?

    This could get interesting in the Chinese sense.
     
  6. Willowy

    Willowy TCS Member Top Cat

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    Due to the current balance of power, there aren't that many women who could use their power like that. But yeah, could happen.
     
  7. doomsdave

    doomsdave TCS Member Top Cat

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    ALAS, I must agree.
     
  8. furmonster mom

    furmonster mom TCS Member Super Cat

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    Sorry to butt in here, but I had a couple things to share for thought...

    First, as an actress, I've experienced harassment and punishment for speaking up throughout my limited career.

    When I was in college, earning my BFA in Theatre, one of my professors flat out said, "Sex sells. If you decide to go to LA, be prepared to sell sex." I didn't go to LA, but even where I ended up, one of my acting coaches told me I should sign up for one of the local escort agencies (!).

    A couple years ago, I was in another local class taught by an older man who made much of his own time studying under Meisner and Adler. For the most part he was a very good coach. Since I was not exactly a "newbie" to the craft, we had an agreement that if I wanted to discuss anything in depth we could do so in private phone conversation. This allowed me to express disagreement on occasion without doing it in front of class (respect, ya know?). However, there came a point where our discussions became less constructive, as he started taking and making comments very personal. The final straw came when I became very concerned over a scene he had given to some other classmates: He'd set up a 15 year old girl in a scene with a 30 year old man, where they were supposed to kiss... like a teenagers first kiss kind of kiss. When I expressed, in private conversation, that this might not be appropriate (the girl was brand new to the class, and the guy had actually experienced priestly harassment), I was told that it was up to the students and the parents to speak up, that I should not be telling him how to run his class, don't come back thank-you-very-much!

    There is an underlying culture in entertainment and fashion, that sex is just par for the course, and if you're not willing to bare it all for your art, then you have no business being in the business. This underlying thought, this culture, is a kind of peer pressure that becomes part of the power play. People's careers do indeed hang on that imbalance.

    On a social level, I was recently manhandled by a friend of a friend. We'd all been to the bar which had closed early, and had gone back to my friends house for one last nightcap as he had a nice selection. Now, when I've had a couple, I tend to let my hair down, flirt a little, laugh at bad jokes, and generally it's all accepted as in good fun. But this other guy got it in his head that my cutting loose was some kind of invitation. He managed to get me alone at one point and became very aggressive with me, kissing and groping, all while my husband was in the other room! Knowing this other guy was very drunk, and not knowing how he'd react to rejection, and conscientious that this was a friend of my friend, I extricated myself by pretending to play along (thank you acting classes!). This is how it happens folks.

    Later, I told my friend about the other guys behavior, and I got a concerned apology. Problem is, my friend wasn't the one who needed to apologize... or was he? I got to thinking about it, and I realized that those two mens friendship was partly based on my friend's admiration for the other guys sexual prowess. He didn't think of it as predatory.

    As I told a second friend (mutual to first friend) later, when the whole Weinstien thing blew up, "Nothing will change until that 'Bro' culture changes. It won't change until one friend tells another, 'Nah man, that ain't cool', when they see or hear harassment". Interestingly, this second friend took my words to heart, and basically said that very thing when he heard our first friend making comments sounding like that other guy... and apparently our first friend underwent a little self reflection on the matter. Small victory... and I'll take it.

    Sexual harassment isn't about gender, though it generally happens to more women than men, but it really can happen to anyone. And it's not really about sex... it's about power. Harassment is the bully's tool to feeling powerful. It will always exist, because nature rewards the aggressive. However, as we like to tell ourselves, as higher intelligent beings, humans are supposed to be able to elevate our society above our baser nature. So, I like to think there is a glimmer of hope out of all of this. Even small victories can add up.

    ... apologies for the lengthy ramble.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
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  9. furmonster mom

    furmonster mom TCS Member Super Cat

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    Oops... forum weirdness... see next post
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
  10. furmonster mom

    furmonster mom TCS Member Super Cat

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    Oops, forgot a detail in my social story, and now I can't edit. That's what happens with late night (early morning) rambles. :ohwell:

    I extricated myself by playing along and saying that nothing was going to go any further without "permission" from my husband; but until then, "permission" was NOT granted. I was very clear on that statement, yet the guy persisted. Thankfully, I was able to fend him off without violent repercussions.

    I do not generally recommend this tactic, but it worked for my particular situation.
     
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  11. doomsdave

    doomsdave TCS Member Top Cat

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    Don't apologize for expressions from the heart.

    Dear GOD.
     
  12. furmonster mom

    furmonster mom TCS Member Super Cat

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    I just felt like there is a lot of focus on political and entertainment celebrities... I wanted to bring it a little closer to home, as it were.
    Let's be honest, the core of a lot of these stories is as old as dirt... Anyone remember the plot of "9 to 5"? Funny movie, right? Three women overcome their misogynistic boss, take over their department, implement production boosting programs... and what happens at the end? The boss comes back, gets the credit, and is elevated to upper management. :rolleyes:
    We could go a long way back and find all kinds of stories about abuse of power against a "weaker" portion of society. Even the grand mythical stories of the Greeks and Romans ... but I digress.

    Despite all the furor over the "big" stories, social change actually moves at a glacial pace. And it starts small. It starts in our own spheres of reality. It starts when we share our personal experiences and perspectives (work, home, or social). It starts when one person tells another, "Nah bro, that ain't cool" (or "Girrrl! that ain't right").

    It's so tempting to aim, cheer, fight for the big victories in the news, when we really should be looking closer to home, finding our own bravery, aiming for those small victories, to effect change in our immediate spheres.

     
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  13. jamescalifornia

    jamescalifornia TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    ~ There goes Al Franken ... `:ohwell:
    It looks like he will resign . Who will replace him ? Should all politicians take an oath of celibacy ? <~:blush:
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
  14. Winchester

    Winchester TCS Member Veteran

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    And yet, the ManBaby is a sexual predator and is getting away with it. Moore is a pedophile and may be elected. Wow. Just wow.
     
  15. doomsdave

    doomsdave TCS Member Top Cat

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    Alas, but if there's an oath, make DT be the first to swear it. Then break it.
     
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  16. doomsdave

    doomsdave TCS Member Top Cat

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    Analysis | Why Al Franken is done-for — and Roy Moore isn’t

    the Democratic Party has simply staked out a much stricter position on these issues than Republicans have with Roy Moore and President Trump. A poll released Wednesday shortly after the senators called on Franken to resign showed why. Quinnipiac University asked Americans whether a lawmaker facing multiple sexual harassment accusations should resign. While just 51 percent of Republicans agreed, a full 77 percent of Democrats agreed. It also asked people how they thought each party was handling sexual harassment issues, and just 45 percent of Democrats approved of their own party. (It's worth noting it was conducted before longtime Democratic Rep. John Conyers Jr. announced his resignation Tuesday. But Democratic leaders called on Conyers to resign last week.)
     
  17. Willowy

    Willowy TCS Member Top Cat

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    Wouldn't help. Sexual harrassment is not about sexual desire, but about lust for power. Nobody wants to curtail anybody else's consensual relationships.

    For those who don't quite understand, Tracee Ellis Ross read a Dr Seuss-rhyming-style book on Jimmy Kimmel the other night. Part of it:

    You may not compliment my butt
    You may not call me "ho" or "sl*t"
    And even if you're stoned or drunk
    Do not expose me to your junk

    And if I am your employee
    Don't rest your hand upon my knee
    No I won't sit on your lap
    I shouldn't have to say this crap!

    Well that ought to explain it to them in a way they can understand ;).
     
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  18. mschauer

    mschauer TCS Member Top Cat

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    I think you should have slapped him. And hard! It seems to me you were more concerned with the feelings of others than with your own. He needed to be told in no uncertain terms that his behavior was inappropriate. And it should have been you to tell him (by slapping him). The way you approached the situation, by playing along, gave him the very strong signal that what he was doing was OK. As it is how is he to know that when a similar situation arises, either with you and some else, that that behavior is inappropriate?
     
  19. Willowy

    Willowy TCS Member Top Cat

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    But that's how girls are commonly socialized. Don't be a b*tch, don't make a fuss. And boys are commonly socialized to not "let a woman push them around". A co-worker just did this---she had to talk to her substitute about something he wasn't doing right. After she talked to him, she asked me "I didn't sound like a b*tch, did I?" I'm pretty sure most guys don't worry about what they sound like when they tell someone else how to do something. If a woman does make a fuss about something a guy does, he may react violently, and her friends/co-workers/etc. might get mad at HER and not him.

    That's a problem, yes, definitely something for people who are raising kids to think about how they're socialized, and for the rest of us to think about how we react when a woman handles something.

    But, no, it's never the woman's responsibility to try to control what a man does. That's his responsibility.

    "I shouldn't have to say this crap!"
     

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