Hare Today grinds, bone percentages?

[peaches08]

I'm sure this has been a answered before, but I can't find it in a search.  Does anyone have a list of the meat/organ/bone percentages of the various grinds at Hare Today?  I'm not quite ready to make an order yet (need to pass boards then work) and I'm revamping how I do raw to maximize space in my freezer first (going to larger containers vs single serving). 

I bought 2 lamb shoulders on sell-by at the store, I cut up one for the cats today and cooked the other for myself.  They inhaled it, and so far no vomiting!  Thank goodness for my kitties, "Here's meat, eat it."  I'm lucky for that, and I've always wanted to expand their menu and HT seems like the best way for me to go.  I want to buy chubs of ground, stir in the vitamin mix per Dr. P, then refreeze.

Thoughts?

 

[abby2932]

I asked Tracy from Hare Today that very question last month, 4/23/14. This was her email response:

Poultry all runs about 20% bone with whole birds.

Rabbit varies some depending on size 15-20% bone.

Click on product name it brings up the description and tells what organs
are included.

Tracy
www.hare-today.com

 

[abby2932]

For the poultry, many people cut it down with boneless meat and or organs. My plan for poultry is to mix 2/3 whole bird with 1/3 chicken organ mix. The organ mix is a variety of hearts, gizzards and liver. That should bring down the bone content to about 11-13% if whole poultry is 15-20% bone.

The rabbit (I have heard and read elsewhere) should be 10-15% bone so I'm not sure why she said 15-20%? But I don't plan on cutting that down unless I am seeing constipation.

I think she has beef at 6% bone.

I'm not sure about the guinea pig (I plan on feeding that too). Like the rabbit, I'm leaving this one alone unless I see constipated kitties.

 

[alistair]

I've been feeding various grinds from HT that are bone plus organs. Had no idea the bone percentage was that high. I thought around 10% was ideal. I really don't want to go to the trouble of cutting it down myself

 

[harrylime]

What's the trouble? Just add in some boneless meat. For every 5 pounds or so of ground meat with bone from HT, buy one pound of boneless.

 

[peaches08]

 
What's the trouble? Just add in some boneless meat. For every 5 pounds or so of ground meat with bone from HT, buy one pound of boneless.

Well, it depends on the bone percentageof the particular ground product.  Adding 20% plain meat back in may be fine, but without knowing the percentage of bone to begin with, that might not be the right amount.  Hence I asked.  I would assume there's a possibility of messing with the balance of organ to meat as well.

 

[alistair]

And another question would be, does the one pound of boneless need Alnutrin for boneless meats added even though I have Alnutrin for bone / organ mixes in my 5 pound grind?

 

[peaches08]

And another question would be, does the one pound of boneless need Alnutrin for boneless meats added even though I have Alnutrin for bone / organ mixes in my 5 pound grind?

No, the difference between the Alnutrin is the calcium source.  I would add Alnutrin for 6 lbs (5 lb bone-in  + 1 lb boneless).

 

[mildlyironic]

Agreed to all of the above. Since the bone percentage does seem high, I cut mine with boneless ground meat and extra organ meat to keep the organ percentage at at least 10% and the bone percentage down to about 9-11%. If this helps, here's a thread I posted where I came up with the proportions to try and figure out how to healthfully cut down on bone percentage without over-shooting or under-shooting, along with adding organ meat: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/278329/cutting-hare-today-bone-percentage-math-help#post_3565007

As tempting as it is for me to also buy my boneless ground meat from HT, the cost of some of it (ex: chicken and turkey at $4/lbs) seemed high, so I ended up investing in an electric grinder for $73. It probably won't handle bone, but it does handle the meat very well, and I think I'll end up net saving money once I've purchased $35 worth of meat. 

That said, it does take time. 

 

 

[peaches08]

Thanks for that!  Is that for any of the grinds?  I may be over thinking the stew out of this.  It's a skill of mine. 

  But I love my kitties and want to give them the correct proportions.  I'm watching LDG's thread about whole rabbit and may just do that. but then there's other meats that I want to try so I end up at square 1 again.

I got a Tasin and it handles chicken bones fine.  Pork and beef bones are too much, but I use eggshell for those anyway. 

 

[mildlyironic]

I'm totally a stew-thinker too 

 so I completely understand! That calculation was for the chicken, rabbit, duck, and turkey grinds. However, when I had emailed Tracey, it seems like the 16-20% bone applies to all poultry and rabbit, so those calculations should work for any of those grinds too. As for beef/pork/bigger land animals though, I didn't ask about their bone percentages so those might be different.

 

[alistair]

No, the difference between the Alnutrin is the calcium source.  I would add Alnutrin for 6 lbs (5 lb bone-in  + 1 lb boneless).

Ok, thanks

 

[peaches08]

Ok, thanks

No problem!  And it was a good question.  Alnutrin is to replace the loss of certain nutrients due to the grinding/oxidation process, and you want to try to be precise rather than "Bam!" like Emeril Lagasse.  In the link mildlyironic provided, he totaled everything up and it makes sense. 

 

[alistair]

What's the trouble? Just add in some boneless meat. For every 5 pounds or so of ground meat with bone from HT, buy one pound of boneless.

For me it's a bit of extra hassle. I put one pound at a time of thawed grind in my glass mixing bowl then I pour in 1/4 cup of water with one scoop of Alnutrin added and stir it all up and then measure out 2 oz. servings. I would need to have a separate bowl of my boneless + supplement mixed then weigh the correct portion to add to each bone in pound. I don't have a lot of free time so I almost have to considered commercial raw a better option even though it's expensive.

 

[peaches08]

For me it's a bit of extra hassle. I put one pound at a time of thawed grind in my glass mixing bowl then I pour in 1/4 cup of water with one scoop of Alnutrin added and stir it all up and then measure out 2 oz. servings. I would need to have a separate bowl of my boneless + supplement mixed then weigh the correct portion to add to each bone in pound. I don't have a lot of free time so I almost have to considered commercial raw a better option even though it's expensive.

Is it just the bowl that's an issue?  Or storage space in the freezer after portioning?

 

[mildlyironic]

I ended up buying 8 qt mixing bowls on Amazon for about $10 each, and mixing all of the same protein at once - ie: the Hare-Today grind and the boneless. It'd be the same as your current method (dump meat, pour water+Alnutrin, stir, portion out), just in larger quantities. Also, if you're doing multiple pounds of the same protein, it'll decrease the amount of time you spend making food compared to mixing/portioning the meat one pound at a time.

 

[ldg]

I thought all of the HT mixes were whole animal?

If so, according to mschauer's work with USDA data, a chicken is more like 32% bone: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/263570/composition-of-proteins-bone-skin-fat

 

[mildlyironic]

Hmm - Tracey definitely said ~20% for the poultry though, including chicken, so perhaps it's not whole animal?

Which would make sense, as H-T does still need the full set of supplements, thus implying that it is not - on its own - a complete meal. However, perhaps we add supplements purely to compensate for nutrients lost in the grinding process.

 

[peaches08]

I thought all of the HT mixes were whole animal?

If so, according to mschauer's work with USDA data, a chicken is more like 32% bone: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/263570/composition-of-proteins-bone-skin-fat

5 lb goat has tripe in it, 5 lb mutton doesn't...I'm so confused!  I'm considering just buying 5 lbs each of various meat/bone/organ grinds and adding Alnutrin (w/o calcium) and calling it a day.  I will still probably feed 50% of the diet or more as chicken, pork, or beef that I grind here.  Or am I setting my cats up for failure?

My head hurts, LOL!

 

[ldg]

Oh good point. Whole animal - cleaned unless otherwise stated. No guts (and probably bled? :dk: ). Maybe no head, or hooves, etc..... I don't even have that email any longer, that laptop crashed.

If you're not going to use them as all-the-time food, that's what I'd do. In fact - it is what I do. :lol3: