Gun Laws And Police Shootings

Discussion in 'IMO: In My Opinion' started by mani, Jul 16, 2017 at 7:35 PM.

  1. denice

    denice Advisor Staff Member Advisor

    9,624
    1,495
    Feb 7, 2006
    Columbus OH
    I have known maybe a dozen cops personally and all of them were decent people. I also believe that they were good cops. I haven't had any serious encounters with cops, only traffic stops because I can have a lead foot. I have nothing critical to say about the cops that stopped me, especially the ones that let me off with a verbal warning. Even when I had to pay I have nothing critical to say about the cops who pulled me over.

    The usual come back to that is that I am a white woman and that people of color particularly males see a different side to those same cops. I can only speak from my own experience.
     
    foxxycat purraised this.
  2. Willowy

    Willowy TCS Member Top Cat

    12,853
    2,256
    Mar 1, 2009
    South Dakota
    I'm a little uncomfortable with the "decent people" line of reasoning. Even if every individual cop is a decent person, that doesn't mean that American cops aren't too militarized, or that they receive enough training to de-escalate tense situations, peacefully deal with mentally ill people, not panic in dark alleys, or not shoot dogs. I'm sure the cop who shot this lady would have been very polite and non-violent if he had pulled her over for speeding. But he still panicked in a dark alley and now someone is dead.

    Plus, every human being feels fully justified in doing whatever they do, or they pass it off as a mistake. No matter how bad it is, they always consider themselves decent people. The line of reasoning that "decent people don't do X" leads to "I'm a decent person so if I do X that means it must be OK". So that's not very useful.
     
  3. mokapi

    mokapi TCS Member Adult Cat

    170
    116
    Jun 22, 2017
    660+ people killed by police officers in the US so far in 2017...they malign themselves.
     
  4. denice

    denice Advisor Staff Member Advisor

    9,624
    1,495
    Feb 7, 2006
    Columbus OH
    I think there is a big difference in both training, background checks, and psychological evaluation from one area to another. I don't think we have general issues with the cops in this area. That is not to say that there are not or ever will be a bad apple, no matter what is done to prevent it someone can get through.

    The last cop that was killed here was on the SWAT team. They were serving a warrant on someone with a history of mental health issues and some disturbing behavior. The only shots fired were the ones from the suspect that killed the cop. The man was taken into custody and he had no injuries. The cops could have killed him and there would have been no charges brought against them but they didn't.

    They did just have an officer involved shooting but so far everything is quite. There is an investigation going on. They do have video which shows the man reaching behind him and he did have a 9 mm Glock. They turned on their body cam but there is no audio of the first 60 seconds. He was backing up with his hands up, the cops say they were telling him to get down on the ground and he reached behind his back. Columbus Police releases body-cam video from officer-involved shooting in Franklinton
     
  5. mokapi

    mokapi TCS Member Adult Cat

    170
    116
    Jun 22, 2017
    In a situation like that, wouldn't a barrage of rubber bullets have incapacitated the man long enough for the officers to subdue him without lethal force?
     
  6. catsknowme

    catsknowme TCS Member Top Cat

    7,603
    323
    Jan 2, 2005
    Eastern California,USA
    I think that Willowy is onto a valid idea - militarization. I have heard a significant proportion of police are former military and some have seen combat duty, so their basic training and subsequent life experiences may affect their responses ( think of the scene in the Damon Wayon's movie "Major Payne, where the retired, combat weathered marine applies for police academy and is told to "neutralize" a staged domestic violence scene. He responds by beating up the male).
    My understanding of this latest MN tragedy was that the caller was talking to one of the officers when the other one shot her. It reminds me of the tragedy in L.A. county when a citizen called 911 that an intruder was in his home. The intruder began brutalizing him but when the cop cars arrived, the victim managed to get away and ran outside with his hands up. One of the cops saw a Hispanic male (the homeowner) and promptly shot him in the stomach - the poor guy died in hospital.
     
  7. denice

    denice Advisor Staff Member Advisor

    9,624
    1,495
    Feb 7, 2006
    Columbus OH
    Probably. It has also been brought up that they could have used a Taser when he was acting antsy, refusing to comply and before he reached for his gun. His sister isn't being truthful when she is saying that he kept his hands up the whole time. Some people will also say that the cops should've waited until he actually drew his gun on them, I am not sure that is realistic either. I don't know what was going on in that guy's mind. If I were in that situation I would've froze with my hands up. That comes back to the difference in what people from different backgrounds think of the police.
     
  8. mokapi

    mokapi TCS Member Adult Cat

    170
    116
    Jun 22, 2017
    At this point, the police are essentially paramilitary. I don't think a military background should help them at all when applying for the police academy. Those with PTSD, a history of PTSD, diagnosable anxiety and (some-- I say "some" because ADHD is different, of course, from bipolar disorder, from oppositional defiance disorder, etc.) behavior disorders should not be allowed to become police officers. There are plenty of people in the armed forces who, also, should not be there.

    It comes back to the US putting too much emphasis on our military, and the subsequent militarization of people who should be PROTECTING US. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
     
  9. xlpooper

    xlpooper TCS Member Super Cat

    1,044
    391
    Mar 8, 2007
    South
    OMG, this is so over the line bad. This cop has only been on the force 2 years and already had complaints lodged against him and from what I am reading he reached over his partner and shot the woman as she was speaking to his partner in her pajama's. Is anyone else reading hearing this?
    MPD Officer Who Shot Woman Identified As Mohamed Noor
     
  10. DreamerRose

    DreamerRose TCS Member Top Cat

    3,299
    783
    Dec 11, 2015
    Naperville, IL
    @mani - This incident was the lead story tonight on the NBC Nightly News. It was about the "outrage" over what happened.

    Nightly News with Lester Holt: The Latest News Stories Every Night I hope they don't change the order of their stories.

    I also heard on one newcast that Mohamed Noor shot Justine Damond out of the window of his car. He hadn't even bothered to investigate on foot.
     
    mani purraised this.
  11. denice

    denice Advisor Staff Member Advisor

    9,624
    1,495
    Feb 7, 2006
    Columbus OH
    This coupled with the video of the dog shooting also in Minneapolis this month shows that there is something going on with that police department. I don't know what but something is not right there.
     
  12. Willowy

    Willowy TCS Member Top Cat

    12,853
    2,256
    Mar 1, 2009
    South Dakota
    Ugh, dang, I hate that it was a Somali cop because now I'm going to have to listen to the racists yammer on and on about it, and they'll probably take it out on innocent Somalis too. Of course when a white guy does something they're quick to say "not all white men!" but the second a minority does something they take it out on every single individual who is part of that minority group :/. So that's unfortunate. I do hope it sparks a lot of departmental changes though.
     
    doomsdave, mokapi, muffy and 1 other person purraised this.
  13. Willowy

    Willowy TCS Member Top Cat

    12,853
    2,256
    Mar 1, 2009
    South Dakota
    These people claim that 500 dogs a day are shot by cops, so that part isn't just that department. I think the Philando Castile case says a lot about the situation though, although that wasn't Minneapolis proper, but a suburb. Puppycide Database Project
     
    catsknowme purraised this.
  14. denice

    denice Advisor Staff Member Advisor

    9,624
    1,495
    Feb 7, 2006
    Columbus OH
    I had read that there were 3 witnesses to the shooting. They did say that she was on the drivers side talking to the police when the cop on the passenger side shot her through the drivers side window. It makes absolutely no sense. She had no weapons on her, there is nothing she could do but be mouthy. If this went down the way the witnesses said that it did this cop is guilty of murder, not some type of manslaughter charge but murder.
     
  15. mani

    mani fervent feline fan Staff Member Moderator

    18,590
    1,162
    Feb 28, 2012
    Australia
    I agree with @Willowy that it's a terrible shame that it's a Somali man. That is what many people will run with. :frown:

    The Australian take on this is anger.
    We set up strict gun laws after the Port Arthur Massacre and many Australians find the whole 'right to bear arms' thing quite odd. Most are aware of how it came about (as @DreamerRose described in #2).
    I understand it is entrenched in the country's psyche. I'm just giving a perspective from here.. the feeling that, if guns weren't so prolific, police wouldn't have these knee-jerk reactions. I also understand that doing anything about it is a huge undertaking.

    I also wonder about this cop's past... Is he a refugee, and if so, what atrocities has he seen in his life? That can certainly influence a person's reactions.
     
  16. DreamerRose

    DreamerRose TCS Member Top Cat

    3,299
    783
    Dec 11, 2015
    Naperville, IL
    xlpooper and catsknowme purraised this.
  17. DreamerRose

    DreamerRose TCS Member Top Cat

    3,299
    783
    Dec 11, 2015
    Naperville, IL
    I agree with you completely, and I think the majority of Americans also agree. But the National Rifle Association is a powerful lobby, and they knock down all attempts to change the laws. What use does any citizen have for an assault rifle? They are military weapons and certainly not for hunting.

    More information about Noor will show up soon, I'm sure.
     
  18. Willowy

    Willowy TCS Member Top Cat

    12,853
    2,256
    Mar 1, 2009
    South Dakota
    That's not necessarily true. Philando Castile's death was ruled a homicide---that just means that it wasn't a natural death and wasn't an accident. Any human-caused death is a homicide. The coroner's ruling doesn't affect the charges. But, yes, if things happened the way they're being described, I think he will be charged with murder. And likely convicted, given the circumstances.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017 at 7:06 PM
  19. Willowy

    Willowy TCS Member Top Cat

    12,853
    2,256
    Mar 1, 2009
    South Dakota
    The NRA used to lobby for responsible gun ownership. Now they're scary extremists who seem to think that every white man with a pulse ought to be open-carrying an AR15 (one he got without a background check or waiting period) every second of every day, even if he doesn't have the proper temperment to be carrying a firearm, even if he has a history of violence. They've lost all credibility with me.
     
    catsknowme purraised this.
  20. denice

    denice Advisor Staff Member Advisor

    9,624
    1,495
    Feb 7, 2006
    Columbus OH

Share This Page