Grinding? Portions? Supplements?

riley1

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Hi All!

Like many I am having trouble finding a substitute for Rad Cat! I am using Signature Chicken & Signature Rabbit as well as chicken and turkey from Darwin's. Not happy with either of these because of the bones, vegetables and additives. I was thinking about Hare Today products or buying parts from a butcher shop but have some questions.
If not adding bone to the food why do you grind it? Is it for portion control? My girl is overweight and has been adding to her bulk even though she only gets raw food. Anyone else have this problem? Rad Cat did not add supplements or anything else to their food as far as I know. Why do you have to add supplements to homemade food? If you buy from the butcher how do you get around the bacteria issue? I know this is a lot of questions but any help will be appreciated!
 

Furballsmom

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Hi!
For her weight, can you gradually increase activity?
Putting her food up on a level of a cat tree to begin with if she's not been very active lately, and then maybe a laser light, a wand toy, etc.

Hopefully a raw feeder will be here to weigh in for you soon :)
 

daftcat75

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Rad Cat did include supplements.

Here's the turkey recipe:
Turkey thigh and leg meat, turkey heart, water (sufficient for dry ingredient hydration), turkey liver, gelatin, organic dried egg yolk, organic dulse powder, egg shell powder, organic psyllium husk powder, vitamin E supplement, manganese gluconate.

Everything after turkey liver can be considered a supplement. Even though these are called "supplements", in many cases, they are not optional. The eggshell powder for example is a calcium supplement because this recipe doesn't contain bone. The dulse powder is a source of iodine. The egg yolk is a source of B vitamins and vitamin A. Rad Cat has a whole blog post on why they included gelatin. Psyllium husk is a source of fiber since they aren't including fur or feathers (a cat's natural source of fiber.)

The reason raw has to be supplemented is because you aren't feeding eyes, brain, fur, and a few other bits that don't get included in "meat and organs". Raw meat is close to their natural diet, but there are bits missing that need to be put back. Don't skip on supplements because you think you're making a pure food. Trust the wisdom of those who came before you. If they say you need to supplement, for your cat's health, do it.

There's a lot to learn about feeding raw. I would start here:
Beginner's Luck: Where Do I Start?
 

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daftcat75 daftcat75 did an excellent job talking about supplementation. In terms of your other questions:

1) Grinding: No, you don't have to grind. Most people grind because cats that have grown up eating commercial dry or wet food don't recognize chunks of meat as food and/or don't know how to properly chew them into swallowable chunks. So ground raw meat is a good way to transition cats onto raw - it looks and has similar texture to canned pate foods. I also started my cats on ground raw and slowly transitioned them to prey model raw, which is chunks of meat, organ, and meaty bones balanced to the proper ratios over a week. I find that it's much more enriching for my cats to chew and swallow meat (and Mishka likes to pretend that she freshly killed her meat chunks and shakes them around and happily makes a mess...), and it has a lot of dental benefits as well. Most cats need to be transitioned slowly to such a diet - first with small slices of meat, then larger chunks, then chicken wings/necks, etc. Not only do they need to get used to working for their food, but they also need to build up the requisite jaw strength. Make sure your cats don't have preexisting dental issues first though!

2) Weight issues: Saipha never had weight issues on canned, mostly because she hated it and would eat just enough to satisfy her hunger and no more. From her first taste of raw though, she absolutely loved it and would literally eat as much as I gave her. Thus, she started gaining weight. Yes, cats do tend to feel fuller on a high protein diet like raw meat, but some cats like Saipha just can't self-regulate, so you have to do it for them. A good rule of thumb is to feed 3% of their weight per day for maintenance, 2.5% for weight loss, and 4%+ for weight gain, kittens, pregnant/nursing cats. So for a 10 lb cat, 3% of his weight would be 4.8 oz of raw meat per day.

Now, this number is just a rule of thumb. What you actually need to do is calibrate it for your cat. So start at 2.5% and weigh your cat weekly using an accurate scale (baby scale works well!). If your cat is steadily losing about half a pound a month (or ~2 oz per week), then you're feeding her the right amount. If she's losing more, increase her daily amount so she doesn't lose weight any faster than 2 oz/week. If she's not losing or even gaining, keep decreasing her daily intake or switch to leaner meat.

3) Sourcing meat: I used to buy from Hare Today when I did homemade ground raw. If you don't have your own grinder and need to buy preground meat, be very careful where you source it from. Hare Today is a good source because they immediately freeze their meat after grinding. Grocery stores are not a good place to buy ground meat - it often sits at fridge temp either at the store or hasn't been immediately frozen after grinding, which gives bacteria tons of surface area to multiply. If you're buying non-ground meat - meaty bones, organs, or cuts of meat, then grocery stores and butcher shops are fine. Just make sure the meat doesn't have added sodium, "enhancers," or herbs.
 
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riley1

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Thank you All! This is great information! Sounds like I may need a grinder for portion control. A couple years ago I emailed Rad Cat and someone there responded that they did not add supplements. I knew about the egg shells but maybe the person thought I meant vitamins that were not from a food source. For now I may try to keep the Darwin's for awhile and add butcher shop meat I could grind & add the necessary items to it to replace the Signature food. I started this little girl on canned food when she came to live with me at about 1 year old. I was feeding her exactly the amount the vet recommended and her behavior was awful! I worked at the humane society where I got her and actually thought about surrendering her! Called the humane society who transferred her to our place and they said she was found near starved to death. With this new info my vet said to ease up on limiting the food. This was also the reason I went from canned to raw. So this was my roundabout way of explaining how she got fat! The extra food really helped her calm down and become a regular cat but I am worried the extra weight will affect her health. Wish me luck with this new adventure! I don't cook much for myself and being responsible for cooking her's is a bit scary!
 

daftcat75

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I don’t cook much for myself but this little one has a way of reminding me to prepare her food. Seeing her go from “for the love of all holy, why won’t you eat?” (pancreatitis) to “can you get off me long enough for me to finish thawing and serving your meal?” makes it all worth it.

This is actually a thaw and portion. I don’t normally need a pan and a knife to thaw and serve a meal. I portion to ice cube trays and refreeze. Then I thaw the cubes in a plastic baggie in warm water at meal time. I serve straight from the freezer to cut out the guessing game of how long I left something in the fridge to thaw.

83C985D6-1A84-49EF-9C0A-F7F87B71B9A7.jpeg
 

Tobermory

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In addition to the great info and advice from daftcat75 daftcat75 and Ardina Ardina , you might want to check out www.catinfo.org, a site by Dr. Lisa Pierson who’s a vet specializing in feline nutrition. She has a lot of helpful information, and her recipe and feline-nutrition.org that daftcat75 mentioned are the go-to recipes for many of us.
 

sophie1

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Grinding is not for portion control. It's just an easy way to prepare and divide up food for freezing.

If your cat can handle bones you have lots of good options for feeding raw. Here are a few possibilities to check out:

1. Buy prepared commercial raw in local stores. Nature Variety signature medallions and Primal nuggets are the main options but you may find others.

2. Buy complete meals online: Omas Pride and Darwins for example.

3. Buy meat-bone-organ or whole animal grinds from an online supplier and mix up your own with supplements like Alnutrin, following the catinfo.org recipe, and adding boneless meat as needed to dilute bone content to the 7-10% range.

4. Follow the catinfo.org recipe using locally purchased poultry parts and supplements. Requires buying a grinder.

5. Feed "frankenprey": buy meat and small bony parts (like chicken wings & necks) locally and cut up with scissors. You still need to add supplements. There are products that can be added to boneless meat, like EZComplete, that make this simple if you don't mind the cost.

Many of us use a mix of approaches. For example, I feed my cats Nature Variety and/or Honest Kitchen in the PM, and homemade raw in the AM (option #3 with a homemade supplement). I'd rather feed all homemade raw, but it was just too time-consuming.
 
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