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Government Shutdown

Discussion in 'IMO: In My Opinion' started by donutte, Jan 10, 2019.

  1. donutte

    donutte Thread Starter Professional cat sitter extraordinaire! Top Cat

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    So we are on day 20 of a government shutdown, because Trump cannot get what he wants. He insists that most of the people going without a paycheck are happy to do so because they agree with him. He says he can relate to their dilemma (HOW???). And he's acting like a little kid who isn't getting his way. He wants a wall and nothing else. Border security in any other fashion isn't good enough for him - he wants his physical barrier and that is that. And, he's talking about maybe declaring a national emergency to get the funds. How does one predict that something MIGHT be an emergency?? A terrorist attack is an emergency. Not getting funding for a physical barrier (that wouldn't be built overnight anyway) is NOT an emergency.

    And best of all, now he's saying he never said that Mexico would pay for the wall directly :flail: Does he not realize how many times he was seen saying that on camera??? Oh, he probably will say that he didn't mean that every single time he said it.

    Yes, I talked a lot about the wall here because it ties directly into the shutdown. And no, being against the wall is NOT the same as being against border security. I don't know anyone who is truly against border security. Just because Trump says it doesn't make it a fact. It has been said many times by Democrats who are against the wall that they DO want border security, but they disagree with Trump as to the best method in which to do that.
     
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  2. Willowy

    Willowy TCS Member Top Cat

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    It's a bunch of nonsense. If it keeps up much longer, a lot of federal employees are going to quit, and then it'll be a real emergency when it opens back up.

    It seems like he doesn't understand that the border will still let people through even if there's a wall. Does he think the border will shut down entirely if the wall is built? That's what it sounds like.

    Hehe, someone found a clip of him giving a graduation speech in 2004, and he told the graduates not to let anything stop them; if someone puts a concrete wall in front of them, go around it, under, through, whatever they have to do. But yet a border wall will be totally effective ;). Ah well, at least he's amusing sometimes.
     

  3. DreamerRose

    DreamerRose TCS Member Top Cat

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    He's a hypocrite. He wants border security and puts the Coast Guard on furlough. Schumer is right - Trump is having a temper tantrum.
     
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  4. Willowy

    Willowy TCS Member Top Cat

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    Another thing that nobody is talking about---if Trump does get his money to "build the wall", it's going to be at least several years before anything is actually built. The US government owns less than 1/3 of the land that the wall would need to go on, so they'd have to buy the land or seize it from the owners, which is not a fast process (also, many of those who support a wall say they're against the government seizing property, but I expect they'll change their mind about that, too, like everything else). And if a lot of federal employees quit, the ones who do the paperwork for buying or seizing property might be among them, and the ones who stayed will be overburdened with all the other work, so that'll slow things down too.

    Then they'd have to hire a contractor. Bids and negotiations can take a long time. Then prep the land---if it were easy land to build on, someone would have built there already. If there is something built there already, they'll have to demolish it. I'm guessing it would be at least 10 years before anything could be started, but I suppose it's possible something might get started within 6 or 7 years.

    At any rate, he'll be out of office before anything even starts.

    I wonder if there's some way to pretend to give him what he wants without him spending a lot of money on something that'll never be finished.
     
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  5. donutte

    donutte Thread Starter Professional cat sitter extraordinaire! Top Cat

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    Problem is, Trump doesn't get the concept of "teamwork". His way of handling things is "If I can't get my way, I'm gonna take my ball and go home."

    I used to be a business analyst. That meant part of what I did was determine wha the needs of the business were on projects. Not what the wants, desires, hopes, dreams or demands of individuals were - but the NEEDS of the business. The needs of the "business" in this case is better border security. Trump says he wants a wall. That is basically design, and no executive should ever, ever be allowed to do design!

    Trump should focus on the needs of the government, and work together with Congress on the best ways in which to deal with that. He shouldn't be deciding single-handedly on the solutions to those needs/problems. This is way too big of an issue for one lone person to be deciding.

    I truly don't understand why he feels the need to keep the government shutdown going over this. This is going to HURT us more in the long run. It will hurt the individual workers. It will hurt the departments they work for. It will put us at higher risk (eg TSA taking off causing issues in some places). I feel like there should be away to get around this. It's stupid. We can re-open the government and then discuss border security afterwards. It's possible. But Trump is being a child about this. The fact that he won't even discuss it is very disturbing.
     
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  6. micknsnicks2mom

    micknsnicks2mom TCS Member Top Cat

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    yup, i'm having a very hard time 'going for' the excuses that the senate majority are giving for not bringing a vote to the floor on individual government agencies funding. i mean, if 'they' (trump and the repubs) aren't 'holding hostage' the federal workers (furloughed or still working but not getting paid) and those other agencies that still need their funding passed -- other than DHS (because that's where the border security funding is included)......then why won't they pass funding legislation for agencies that have nothing to do with border security, or even bring it to a vote in the senate? are they afraid to go on record voting to keep the government shutdown? or, are they afraid that the vote would pass funding for all the agencies except DHS? it seems to me that the repubs are 'running interference', to cover trump still. and that's part of what lost them the House in the midterms.
     
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  7. Kieka

    Kieka Snowshoe Servant Staff Member Forum Helper

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    I just don't understand the argument of "we have a wall around the white house" or "people built walls around castles" or "even heaven has a gate". The heaven one, prove it. The white house and castles are significantly smaller and have walls supplemented with people within eye sight of each other. Even then, as my Dad puts it ever so bluntly, walls just slow them down enough to catch to and tackle them to the ground. Which just emphasizes that walls alone don't stop people.

    It's serious mind boggling how someone can honestly say walls work for castles and not realize the difference in scale. Along with everything else, like defenders and bolt holes and tar drops and everything else.

    Although I heard a new one today, that Obama shut down to get his Obamacare so Trump is justified since Obama did it. Which is twisted because Obamacare already was approved, it was an opposition to it saying delay it a year or we won't approve funding... But it's amazing how history gets rewritten to Trump logic.
     
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  8. denice

    denice Advisor Staff Member Advisor

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    All of this is beyond ridiculous. I know this one is particularly absurd but it is one in a long line, we now go through this cycle of CR's and shutdowns. I got a novel idea, why not go back to that little thing called regular order. The government actually passes an annual budget and appropriates money. I know there I go again talking about how it used to be and thinking it was better then, what an old fashioned idea. Things aren't like that anymore, we know better now and things are just going so much better now.
     
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  9. micknsnicks2mom

    micknsnicks2mom TCS Member Top Cat

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    @denice -- i agree! the government should be able to pass an annual budget and appropriate money. that's how things should be, and it worked out well then, and would work out best these days too.

    all this time spent on those CR's and shutdowns are a total and complete waste of time and taxpayer dollars.

    and as for the current partial shutdown and impasse, it's purely political, imo. the repub senate had just recently voted and passed the exact same funding for all the agencies currently in shutdown, so why wouldn't they vote to pass what they've already voted to pass?

    i'd also really like to know how the IRS, Transportation, and USDA funding has anything to do with border security or funding for that. funding legislation for those were just passed by the House. the senate repubs have refused to bring a vote to the floor on the IRS funding, have refused to do part of what they were elected to do. if they don't want to do the job they were elected to do, then they should resign. and what about all the federal workers, furloughed or still working but not getting paid, in their districts...??? they certainly aren't representing those constituents interests.

    and i'll add that trump's wall never got funded by the repubs in congress, while they were in control of both chambers of congress!
     
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  10. Stinky15

    Stinky15 TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    I get it, this isn't about anything other than Democrat obstruction. I'm sure many were against it before they even knew what it was. Welcome to TDS and the road to 2020 courtesy of the far left.
     

  11. doomsdave

    doomsdave TCS Member Top Cat

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  12. Willowy

    Willowy TCS Member Top Cat

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    Do you have any comments on the fact that it's going to take at least 10 years to even start building a wall, even if he does get the funding? If there's an "emergency" at the border, they'll still need to do something else in the interim. What do you think Trump's plans are for border security before the wll gets built? And how do you feel about the government seizing property for federal building projects?
     
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  13. jcat

    jcat Mo(w)gli's can opener Staff Member Moderator

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    Have you heard the latest? Now Trumpelstiltskins is considering diverting funds earmarked for the victims of recent natural disasters. How caring of him. :( I'm sure this is really going to go down well with people living in the affected states and territory. They mean as much to him as the federal workers who aren't being paid. :angryfire::angryfire::angryfire:

    White House Considers Using Storm Aid Funds as a Way to Pay for the Border Wall

     

  14. Winchester

    Winchester TCS Member Veteran

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    Just when you think it's safe to come back into the water......

    As @micknsnicks2mom mentioned, during the ManBaby's first year, the Republicans had control of both the House and Senate. And yet there was no funding for his so-called wall. Yet, now you say the lack of funding is because of Democrat obstruction? Hmmm, well, OK, then.
     
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  15. artiemom

    artiemom Artie, my Angel; a part of my heart Top Cat

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    It boggles my mind that T is just so naive in thinking a "Wall" can stop illegal immigrants.

    Has the reality of TUNNELS under the border, even been suggested to him as a way the immigrants can skirt the border?

    And to be so naive that ALL the drugs are coming from down south.. incredible..

    And his "supporters" are they just as naive or just plain crazed with hate.

    The plot to take financial aid from US Citizens who underwent natural disasters and need help is not what a "President" does...

    His line that he 'understands' what the furloughed employees are going through.. BuLL CRap...
    another LIE..

    T is really on the verge of dictatorship..
    and/or insanity...
     
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  16. Willowy

    Willowy TCS Member Top Cat

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    O'Connell basically admitted that they were waiting for a Democrat-controlled House so they could blame the Democrats instead of accepting the consequences of their own actions.
    Well that's dandy. I'm sure that's going to end well :/.

    I'm not feeling especially safe! With TSA agents calling in sick (sick of not being paid!), and FDA food safety inspectors on furlough, it'll be amazing if nobody dies from this shutdown. Their families won't get any special attention though.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
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  17. Willowy

    Willowy TCS Member Top Cat

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    A lot of them do! But not through the desert and rivers---the drugs are smuggled in trucks on roads bringing goods over the border legally. A bunch of cocaine in the middle of those bananas, or in a secret compartment of that car, etc. So a wall won't stop that. And they've learned how to trick the drug dogs. So what's needed is a better drug detection system.
     
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  18. orange&white

    orange&white TCS Member Top Cat

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    What are the Democrats plans for border security? I'm sure they have something since they were always for strict border security and keeping out illegal immigrants before Trump was elected. They need to work on their public messaging and tell us what type of border security they do want to approve. All they're doing publicly is trashing Trump. That doesn't help.

    The border barrier was funded in 2006 with The Secure Fence Act. Construction ran through 2012, when Obama said it was "finished". Several hundred miles of fencing were erected over six years, making a lot of the border cities much safer (e.g. San Diego, El Paso, etc.).

    The Secure Fence Act was introduced on September 13, 2006. In the House of Representatives, the Fence Act passed 283–138 on September 14, 2006.[2] On September 29, 2006, the Fence Act passed in the Senate 80–19. Barrack Obama, Hillary Clinton, and Chuck Schumer were included in the "yes" votes. They were able to move very quickly then in voting for the border barrier.

    Interestingly, much of the wall which did not get built is in Texas, where people tend to be equally opposed to having government take land through eminent domain as they are opposed to illegal immigration. Land offer negotiations fell short on the federal government's side and prevented the government from completing much of the fencing provided for in 2006. I expect there would still be a land fight today.

    $5 billion is 1/10th of 1% of the federal budget. It's like less than 1/2 of one day of federal spending...a few hours. It looks to the right as though it is the Democrats who are being hypocrites and obstructionists, and only because Trump was elected. If Hillary had won, we'd probably be building a wall.

    Always two sides of the story in politics. ;)
     

  19. DreamerRose

    DreamerRose TCS Member Top Cat

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  20. Willowy

    Willowy TCS Member Top Cat

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    A sea-to-sea wall would be an ecological disaster too. The Sonoran Desert is a delicate ecosystem. We need to talk about that more.
     
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