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Government Debt

Discussion in 'IMO: In My Opinion' started by denice, Feb 9, 2018.

  1. denice

    denice Thread Starter Advisor Staff Member Advisor

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    I know Rand Paul isn't popular in D.C. right now but he said exactly what needed to be said. He was accused of showboating but he said what needed to be said last night. Rand Paul is right - CNNPolitics

    From the above, part of Rand Paul's speech last night.

    When the Democrats are in power, Republicans appear to be the conservative party," Paul said at one point. "But when Republicans are in power, it seems there is no conservative party. The hypocrisy hangs in the air and chokes anyone with a sense of decency or intellectual honesty."
    He is 100% right.
     
    kittypa, foxxycat and xlpooper purraised this.

  2. micknsnicks2mom

    micknsnicks2mom TCS Member Top Cat

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    ...with the cats...
    yes, i'd say he's right.

    but yet, Rand Paul also voted for the GOP tax plan for the top 1%......the one that's estimated to add 1+ trillion dollars to the debt.......
     

  3. mightyboosh

    mightyboosh TCS Member Top Cat

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    As an aside and what I think is an interesting fact to visualise what a trillion dollars really is, is this that I read once.

    A million dollars of $1000 bills stacked on top of each other measures about 4 inches.

    A trillion dollars in $1000 bills similarly stacked would be more than 60 miles high!

    I think that's an incredible fact and is a way to got ones head around how humungous a trillion really is.
     

  4. denice

    denice Thread Starter Advisor Staff Member Advisor

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    I think that is how they get away it. When you get into the big numbers people don't really comprehend it, it's just noise. I think that is a human thing. The same thing happens with things like large scale pandemics. When you hear about huge numbers of people infected it is outside the realm of our understanding, it becomes numbers then. The same with people being killed in war zones and demonstrations. I remember when the demonstrations happened in Tiananmen Square. There were the stories about the number of people in the square and the number of military and military equipment around the square but what really registered and is still remembered is the one person facing down a tank.
     
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  5. xlpooper

    xlpooper TCS Member Top Cat

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    I'm not part of your "top 1%" and I got a great tax cut, I'm netting $2,400.00 a year more than I was last year
    and to me it's NOT 'crumbs'.
     
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  6. Willowy

    Willowy TCS Member Top Cat

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    If that's true, you must make over $100,000 a year (according to the tax cut calculators I can find, the average tax cut for the average household making $50,000 a year is $100 per month). If you're married and your spouse also works and makes over $35,000 a year, that would put you within the top 10% income level. Not quite the top 1% but still far above average.

    If you don't make that much, better check your withholding. I heard a lot of people's withholding got messed up because the tax cut was passed after the withholding charts were made up.

    It's all crumbs compared to what the companies make, and their CEOs.
     
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  7. AbbysMom

    AbbysMom At Abby's beck and call Staff Member Moderator

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    My husband is netting an extra $4600 a year. Every pay period I am transferring the extra into a bank account because at some point all of that will be going back to the government when this also "corrects" itself.
     

  8. foxxycat

    foxxycat TCS Member Top Cat

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    Any extra I get from my paycheck goes right into my mutual funds. Some have made 26% and 30% last year. So I will take that extra and invest and make my money work for me-tell my money where to go instead of in stores to purchase "stuff" I don't need.
     
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  9. xlpooper

    xlpooper TCS Member Top Cat

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    I do NOT make over 100K a year, not even close, I'm going back right now to check
    what my net pay was in December 2017 and what it is now and I did over estimate it, the net increase for the year
    will be a little over $2,000.00
     

  10. xlpooper

    xlpooper TCS Member Top Cat

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    I don't understand what you mean when you say "because at some point all of that will be going back to the government when this also "corrects" itself". ????
     

  11. xlpooper

    xlpooper TCS Member Top Cat

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    I'm an employee, not a CEO and I'm not a business owner, of course both of those occupations make more than I do as they should. And no, $2,000.00 net more a year isn't crumbs to me, maybe it is to you but not to me.
    Business owners are the risk takers, it's their money on the line if the business fails, I didn't take any risks,
    I'm just an employee.

    My withholding isn't messed up, I know that for a fact.
     

  12. Willowy

    Willowy TCS Member Top Cat

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    I guess the tax cut calculators are wrong then :dunno:. I hope I get that much more a month. I'll find out on the next paycheck, they say.

    Just because an amount is meaningful to you doesn't mean it's not "crumbs". Even actual crumbs are meaningful to sparrows. Just saying, businesses could afford to treat their employees a whole lot better.
     

  13. xlpooper

    xlpooper TCS Member Top Cat

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    Is $2,000.00 net more a year crumbs to you?
     

  14. Willowy

    Willowy TCS Member Top Cat

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    No, as I am an average middle-income American. But it is crumbs to someone who makes several million a year, like the CEOs of just about any business. Companies could afford to help out their lower-level workers a lot more.
     

  15. xlpooper

    xlpooper TCS Member Top Cat

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    I can agree with that if one word was changed. "Companies" changed to "large corporations".
     

  16. denice

    denice Thread Starter Advisor Staff Member Advisor

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    Columbus OH
    Now he is back to the infrastructure bill with a 1 1/2 trillion price tag. We have had the tax cuts, lifted the budget caps, increased spending, and now this on top of a 20 trillion debt. We are still closing in on entitlements running out of money. There are finally some talking heads talking about the deficit being at dangerous levels. One said that if something like what happened in 2008 happened again it would be dangerous to try to do what we did then. One said that if this continues he fully expects his grandchildren to see a government default.
     

  17. doomsdave

    doomsdave TCS Member Top Cat

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    Debt is a tool, and like any tool it has to be used wisely. By both people and the government.

    Massive deficit spending, like the recent tax cut will cause, will run up a debt that will need to be repaid someday.
     

  18. doomsdave

    doomsdave TCS Member Top Cat

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    The GOP loves to tout itself as a party of fiscal restraint and limited government, but they are not, and never have been, anything of the kind, ever. They just like to spend in different ways. Military hardware is a big one.

    Maybe the Dems are "tax and spend." The GOP is "spend and spend and spend to the end." Which is why I thought Ronald Reagan was such a dolt. He advocated tax cuts, and deficit spending, and never could face the math, until he was forced to. And, many many people who should have known better believed him.
     
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  19. mschauer

    mschauer TCS Member Top Cat

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    As I see it the biggest problem with Trump's massive public debt expansion is that the US debt to GDP ratio is already 105%. The generally considered sustainable ratio is 77%. The US has gotten away with such a high ratio because our economy and government are relatively stable. And we have never defaulted on any debt instrument. They are considered among the safest, if not the safest, investment available the world over. Foreign governments own over $6 trillion in US debt instruments.

    BUT, what would happen if the US debt got so large that those foreign governments started to question the ability of the US to repay? What would happen if they decided to stop buying US debt, or worst, sold large quantities of the existing debt they hold? If foreign governments stop buying US debt our ability to fund government day to day operations would be severely hampered.

    I have no idea what it would take for foreign governments to lose that much faith in the US but if it were to happen it would likely happen quickly and it would be catastrophic for the US. It is far safer for the US to keep debt at a safer level, one that leaves us less exposed to that risk.

    Debt is a tool. It can be used to juice the economy when needed, like during or just after a recession. But now, when the economy requires no juicing, it makes no sense to increase the debt especially when it is already so high.
     
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  20. xlpooper

    xlpooper TCS Member Top Cat

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