Good News re Ear Cropping/Tail Docking

[wellingtoncats]

Wow you ladies have said what I was thinking!

 

[cococat]

I can honestly say a spay is very invasive and isn't pretty. But I don't see everyone making a fuss about that. Mainly b/c it isn't purely cosmetic surgery. I get that.
Properly done ears are done at a younger age (7-9 weeks being ideal) and done with modern vet medicine and technology humanely. They heal fairly quickly. The posting and bandages some see is the training of the ears to stand. Some ears stand quickly, some take longer, depending upon many factors, genetics, aftercare, the cropper, the type of crop, etc.
I think cropping is a lot better today in sterile environments with professionals and the best care than it "used to" be back when that wasn't widely available.

I have seen cropped litters playing like normal right after their ear surgery. It doesn't bother them much. They bounce back quickly. I

my dogs soo much and don't feel it is cruel to take them to the vet for the procedure. The dogs I have came to me already cropped (I got them the day right after) and were no worse for the wear at all. My dogs live inside and have the best life I can offer them, yet people still think I am cruel b/c my dogs are cropped and docked?

There is more to animal cruelty than taking a well loved pet to the vet for the best of care during a procedure.

A lot of people have different views on cropping, I find the ones to make the most fuss are those with no experience with it. This might not be true in all cases, this is just what I find in general from doing public education.
Docking is done at a very young age, 3-5 days. It seems more like people getting their infants ears pierced or circumsion on their infants.

All that being said, it doesn't matter how I feel or what I say, I feel cropping and docking won't always be accepted in the US. I feel that cropping and docking both are on a limited time table. And I see the beauty in ALL dogs regardless of outside appearances. They are still just as lovable and full of life and love.

 

[cjh27]

Originally Posted by cococat

I can honestly say a spay is very invasive and isn't pretty. But I don't see everyone making a fuss about that. Mainly b/c it isn't purely cosmetic surgery. I get that. .

Hi,

yes- a spay is very invasiv, no doubts about that. I wish it wouldn't have to be done.

Personaly I would have loved to have a few litters fom my cats, they would have been beautiful- but I know that there is a cat overpopulation. So I don't really think you can compare it with docking/cropping.

Originally Posted by cococat

I have seen cropped litters playing like normal right after their ear surgery. It doesn't bother them much. They bounce back quickly. I

my dogs soo much and don't feel it is cruel to take them to the vet for the procedure. The dogs I have came to me already cropped (I got them the day right after) and were no worse for the wear at all. My dogs live inside and have the best life I can offer them, yet people still think I am cruel b/c my dogs are cropped and docked?

There is more to animal cruelty than taking a well loved pet to the vet for the best of care during a procedure. .

The question still remains- why cropp/ dock at all?

No, I don't think you are cruel towards your dog

I just think its a shame they were cropped.

Originally Posted by cococat

A lot of people have different views on cropping, I find the ones to make the most fuss are those with no experience with it. This might not be true in all cases, this is just what I find in general from doing public education.

Yes, you're probably right about that. But that doesn't mean that cropping is OK. You also won't find people who breed cats with disabilities make a fuss about it.

"My Munchkins don't need long leggs- what's all the fuss about?" "A Sphynx doesn't need whiskers or fur." "My Manx can balance perfectly well without a tail- cats don't really need tails now, do they." "My persian can`t take care of his own fur- so what, I'll do the grooming." "So what if my white cat has deaf kittens- the new owners have all said that they are little darlings"

Originally Posted by cococat

All that being said, it doesn't matter how I feel or what I say, I feel cropping and docking won't always be accepted in the US. I feel that cropping and docking both are on a limited time table. And I see the beauty in ALL dogs regardless of outside appearances. They are still just as lovable and full of life and love.

I hope so. Un-cropped dogs ARE beautiful

regards,

Christine

 

[Willowy]

Originally Posted by cococat

A lot of people have different views on cropping, I find the ones to make the most fuss are those with no experience with it.

Well, if I had experience with it, that would mean I approved....and I don't. So I don't see how I could have any experience with it without actually having it done

. Though, like I said, my rescue Rott does have a docked tail (though I'm told it's "too long", I guess show Rotts have their tails docked to the first vertebrae, and I think Moose has 4 or 5 vertebrae), and I seriously wish it had not been done. Not that it bothers him now, but it gives me the willies whenever I think about it when I look at his tail. SO maybe you could say I have experience......but, really, how is someone supposed to get experience with something they don't approve of?

 

[cococat]

Originally Posted by cjh27

Yes, you're probably right about that. But that doesn't mean that cropping is OK. You also won't find people who breed cats with disabilities make a fuss about it.
"My Munchkins don't need long leggs- what's all the fuss about?" "A Sphynx doesn't need whiskers or fur." "My Manx can balance perfectly well without a tail- cats don't really need tails now, do they." "My persian can`t take care of his own fur- so what, I'll do the grooming." "So what if my white cat has deaf kittens- the new owners have all said that they are little darlings"

These are not the same at all, but I will take a voyage on this tangent. Why not

Canines in the wild have erect ears for a reason. Body language is easier, ear infections are lower, and they can hear better, among other things. Humans bred specifically for these drop floppy ears and they are prone to more infections. Human cropping by a professional with the best care is not a genetic defect. It does not hinder the dog living like a normal dog and going about their day to day functions at all. I know because I own them and run them in dog sports and have experience with the procedure.
So many people say it is cruel to take a puppy to the vet for the best vet care and a quick procedure, well, a spay is also cruel if we want to talk about the toll it takes on a dog, I have seen spay procedures and they are quite an ordeal and leave the dog barren for life and there has been some research that it isn't as healthy for some dogs at some ages as once thought. But the need to spay and neuter in today's society is important because people do not have good responsibility with their animals and the pet overpopulation problem is out of control.
The reason above is the reason I am against declawing, it does defect the cat for life IMO.
This conversation is a moot point though, as I am sure laws will change. And like I said, I won't be heartbroken or anything. I love my breed in any color, any size, and with or without tails and ears. They are all great in my eyes.

 

[cjh27]

Originally Posted by cococat

These are not the same at all, but I will take a voyage on this tangent. Why not

Canines in the wild have erect ears for a reason. Body language is easier, ear infections are lower, and they can hear better, among other things. Humans bred specifically for these drop floppy ears and they are prone to more infections. Human cropping by a professional with the best care is not a genetic defect. It does not hinder the dog living like a normal dog and going about their day to day functions at all. I know because I own them and run them in dog sports and have experience with the procedure. .

Hi,

so do dogs with floppy ears really have that many problems with ear infections and body language?

I do think it would be better for dogs if they were bred to more closely resemble the body shape of a wolf. In general every extreme in breeding is bad for the animals, regardless if we are talking here about cats, dogs or cows. But of course this will not happen.

No, luckily it isn't a genetic defect

. And it doesn't hinder them to be dogs- but what about the reverse question? Do un-cropped ears really hinder a dog that much that cropping benefits the dog?

Originally Posted by cococat

So many people say it is cruel to take a puppy to the vet for the best vet care and a quick procedure, well, a spay is also cruel if we want to talk about the toll it takes on a dog, I have seen spay procedures and they are quite an ordeal and leave the dog barren for life and there has been some research that it isn't as healthy for some dogs at some ages as once thought. But the need to spay and neuter in today's society is important because people do not have good responsibility with their animals and the pet overpopulation problem is out of control.
The reason above is the reason I am against declawing, it does defect the cat for life IMO. .

Part of the problem seems to be that not all dogs are taken to a vets for cropping/ docking. If people really seem to believe that a young dog's nerves aren't fully developed and that they don't feel pain (!) this doesn't seem like a good idea.


I must say that I haven't really looked into wether spaying is healthy for dogs or no, so I won't comment on that, though I think you're probably right with what you are saying

Originally Posted by cococat

This conversation is a moot point though, as I am sure laws will change. And like I said, I won't be heartbroken or anything. I love my breed in any color, any size, and with or without tails and ears. They are all great in my eyes.

..now that was the best sentence in this whole thread

regards,

Christine

 

[anita1216]

Our dobe is docked, by the breeder, not us. I did not have her cropped, she is lovely with her ears floppy IMO. I dont know what its been like for other uncropped dobe owners, but at 8 our girl has never had one ear problem.

This will always be a hot topic, no chaning that.

I do take offense though to someone suggesting my doberman is lacking because she has floppy ears. Her ears are just a part, not the whole dog.

 

[sailing larry]

The same people that are horrified by ear and tail cropping think nothing of having their pets ovaries or testicles removed...

 

[random gemini]

That's correct, but the studies don't imply that we should never spay or neuter at all. 

If you read the studies, spaying females is just fine as long as you don't do it before they are 2 years old, and in fact, it's healthier for her than not spaying her at all because spayed females have a significantly decreased risk of mammary cancer, which is one of those silent killer cancers. Most vets advocate pediatric spaying and neutering (neutering dogs before their growth plates have closed and reached adulthood). They do this, because 80% of dog owners cannot handle the responsibility of making sure that their in tact dog, doesn't come into contact with another in tact dog and if they don't get them done early, the dog will never get altered at all. 

It does seem that minds in veterinary medicine are changing though, but not quickly and while I agree that early spay and neuter isn't a good idea, I'm okay with veterinary medicine taking a while to catch up. My three labs are all rescues. Jet sat in a shelter for 30 days because his previous owners had no clue what to do with a Labrador and probably should never have had a dog. He got away from them on a walk and they never bothered to go pick him up from the shelter. There are only 3 shelters in the county where I live. It wouldn't have been hard to find him. Lexi got dumped six times, once a year, ever year she was alive, until I adopted her. One of those six times, she had to escape from the animal shelter when the place caught fire while she was inside and the excuse her owner gave when he dropped her off there? "Doesn't match new furniture." No joke.

Dogs deserve so much better than this. If there were a family on a waiting list for every single puppy ever born, Lexi wouldn't have had to escape from a burning animal shelter, because she would have been safe at home, where she was loved. Until we can give them a situation where there are waiting lists years long, of families who WANT to love them from day one, until their very last day, I'm not so sure that veterinary medicine should change its mind on pediatric spay and neuter. At least, not yet.

Cropping and docking is another matter entirely. Many vets refuse to perform the procedures at all these days. Most folks I know that own breeds that would traditionally crop or dock, refuse to do it, comparing that surgery to declawing cats... and they are RIGHT to do so. IMO, if we want to draw a real comparison on these surgeries to another that we're all familiar with... if you would not declaw your cat... why on earth would you ever force your dog to go through a tail amputation, just because it looks pretty? There are times when tail amputations are medically necessary to prevent pain in the future. Some breeds are born with very thin tails with extremely tiny and delicate tail bones... but cropping ears, IMO, there's no excuse for doing that, ever.