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Geoffrey ~ Diarrhea~

Discussion in 'Cat Health' started by artiemom, Jan 1, 2019.

  1. artiemom

    artiemom Thread Starter Artie, my Angel; a part of my heart Top Cat

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    Dec 22, 2014
    near Boston
    Hi all,
    Not new to the forum; but I am having issues with my new guy, Geoffrey.

    Brief background. Adopted on Nov 5.. He began with soft stools mid Dec.. now it is full blown diarrhea, 3 times a day. First stool sample was neg.. Now waiting for PCR, Fecal float.

    Geoffrey is a very very frightened cat; spending all his time under my bed. I honestly think he was kept in a closet or bathroom--perhaps because of the diarrhea. Any sound, sudden movement, any movement and he is freaked out. Even people opening and closing their doors, and people walking down the apartment building hall, freaks him out.

    If I pick him up, he freaks out.. scratches and runs under bed, not to come out..

    I have been slowly gaining his confidence, mostly with play, using Feliway diffusers and Jackson Galaxy herbal spray mists. Geoffrey cannot be held. He is so frightened. Was not like this when I saw him in the shelter.

    He is also most comfortable when the sun is NOT out.. later in the day.. And each time I go to the bathroom, he is right there with me.. runs from under the bed to be with me, in the bathroom.. so strange.

    Taking him to Regular Vet. Because of the Christmas holiday; when his diarrhea began, I was up a creek with vets... I did manage to get him on Royal Canin Rabbit food--wet, and a human grade probiotic, Renew Life 15 billion..just putting a few grains in his food. He was eating it.

    When the Vet returned from Christmas, we added the RC Rabbit Dry. All was well with his eating..

    The diarrhea increased in frequency this week. Up to 2 times a day. Vet insisted on using Proviable Forte-- the Forte because it has more pre and probiotics and she has had good results with it. I questioned because I am accustomed to using the plain Proviable DC.

    This did not help.. Increased diarrhea, now, 3 times a day.
    Vet prescribed Metronidazole, (Flagyl) for the diarrhea.

    Problem is: How the heck am I going to get it into him? It is a pill.. Vet insisted that I was NOT to pill him.. That would put him over the edge with trust. He would completely withdraw.

    She said to mix it with his food.. I did not think that was a good idea because Flagyl is so nasty tasting.

    I tried it once, yesterday. It took hours for him to eat the small amount of food. Today he is refusing it.. the rabbit..

    Geoffrey is starving. He did not eat any food during the night.. had diarrhea, woke me up, to tell me his box was full..

    We played as soon as I got up.. then I tried feeding him the mixture.. nope.. refused it...

    I waited a couple of hours. He is starving.. going after any scent of food.. even the chocolate truffles in the candy dish.. He is constantly crying, walking all around me.. all over the kitchen. I just caught him trying to climb a wall--shadow? or is he crazy from hunger?

    This is what I have tried--wasting pills:
    * Wrapped in a pill pocket: both chicken and tuna
    * wrapped in a bacon flavored mask
    *wrapped in cheese
    * coated with butter
    * mixed with yogurt
    * crushed and mixed with beef flavored baby food

    I am at a loss. What do I do? He is starving.. do I wait this out? I feel horrible.

    I am trying to keep my anxiety in check, but it is not helping..

    Also I went to bed at 11pm and he woke me up at 4 am... to tell me his box was full..

    When he is insistent, there is no way of ignoring him. I have been trying since I got him.

    I am now thinking that he has had diarrhea at his prior home.. and most likely has a food allergy or IBD even.. My thoughts are that he was kept in the bathroom, because of the diarrhea.. so he would not soil the rest of the apartment. And he is 'wise' to all these hidden pilling techniques, because he had been through it before.
    Afraid of being held, because it results in pilling/medicating....

    I am so frustrated. I do not know what to do.. My angel Artie, was a dream to medicate.. He was a bit tuff at first.. but I was able to handle him.. I am afraid of shattering Geoffrey's mind by trying to scruff or wrap him in a towel.

    Any ideas??

    I really cannot believe I am going through this ~~ again.. two cats in a row..
    Kind of hoping it is a parasite.. or not.. I am just beside myself.
    How can this happen twice in a row?? This cat was healthy in the shelter, at the foster.. I had the president of the society and the adoption person check him, also... I am a volunteer with the shelter.

    Any ideas??


    I do have a can of sardines.. I think they are water packed.. do I try that? or tuna? and waste a couple more pills??

    Help?

    Geoffrey:
    IMG_1604.JPG
     
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  2. FeebysOwner

    FeebysOwner TCS Member Top Cat

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    Hi. I know in humans that clindamycin, erythromycin, tetracycline, and vancomycin are all alternatives Metro - you could ask the vet about one of these as a replacement. Hopefully at least one of them is the equivalent to Metro and tastes better as well.

    There is also a transdermal gel form of Metro, but I don't know if it is as effective as the pills. Also, a liquid form, but would guess that tastes equally nasty. Although, in liquid form you might be able to mask it with the water off the tuna.

    And as far as eating, I would feed him anything that you can find that he will eat for now, in between med dosages. Boiled chicken, perhaps? Or, as you suggested the tuna.

    I hope other members who have dealt with Metro first hand will read your post soon and offer tips/advice.
     
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  3. artiemom

    artiemom Thread Starter Artie, my Angel; a part of my heart Top Cat

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    I gave in... to my anxieties.

    I had an extra large long sleeve shirt, put a heavy, very large, sweatshirt on... I got the pill gun ready.. Flagyl in the capsule, a bit of bacon wrap over it.. and a syringe of water ready.

    I lured him out from under my bed, with a toy. I literally grabbed him-- behind area.. as he was digging his claws into the rug to go back under my bed.

    I had a large towel on top of the bed. I grabbed G, trying to wrap him in the towel.
    A real snake with long sharp claws.

    I managed to hold onto him, trying to at least cover his paws with the towel. Sat on my recliner with him behind me. G was almost on his back. I did use the gun. He knows.. (which makes me think it is a food allergy). I tried to give him some water, but by then, he was out of control. I actually had to use my body to hold him against the back of the chair, so I could make sure he did not spit out the capsule..

    No go to the water chaser, but he swallowed the pill..
    Ran under my bed.. hiding..

    I opened up a new can of food, and put some dry in a bowl. I fed him, under my bed. He was ravenous.. ate it all...

    Now, he is hiding under the bed.. and is flinching when I come near.. sigh...

    what am I going to do tonight?
     
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  4. Kflowers

    Kflowers TCS Member Top Cat

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    Congratulations on getting the pill down him.

    I can see how the water chaser would have been difficult if not impossible after getting the pill down. BUT you got the pill down. Some cats become resigned to pill with practice. Some don't.

    If you can't do the pill in the future, think about the transdermal gel alternatives. Even if the gel form isn't as 'good or strong' as the pill if you can get it on him isn't that better than not getting the pill down him?

    I was wondering if you have a heat vent under your bed. If so that might be why he's so fond of hiding there.

    Again, congratulations on getting the pill down and congratulations to him for taking it. With luck he'll associate feeling better with the pill. I've known several who did when they got insulin, but that's quicker acting than a pill.
     
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  5. BeckyAnn56

    BeckyAnn56 TCS Member Kitten

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    I would try calcium bentonite clay, I get mine from The Living Clay Company 1-800-915-clay. (Tested safe to drink). It will absorb toxins parasites heavy metals etc from the intestines. I DRINK it also. for my cats I put a teaspoon of clay to 2 cups water. May have to use a syringe if he does not drink it. Also, and I am not kidding, perhaps your cat is seeing ghosts in your apartment
     
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  6. artiemom

    artiemom Thread Starter Artie, my Angel; a part of my heart Top Cat

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    near Boston
    The only ghosts would be of my dad and my Artie.
    My dad’s anniversary is the 3rd of January.

    Both Artie and my dad occupied the same area where Geoffrey is climbing the wall. Eerie.

    No, I will not use the clay. I had a bad experience with it in the Natures Variety food, with Artie. Thanks anyway.

    Geoffrey is now running away from me.

    He will not come anywhere near me. Hiding under my bed.

    No, no heat vent. It is dark and hidden from life.

    That is G’s thinking. Kind of like a feral in hiding.
     
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  7. angels mommy

    angels mommy TCS Member Top Cat

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    Cindy, Im so sorry you are dealing with this. It sucks when you have all the best hopes, & signs with a new one, and something happens. Yes, congratulations on getting him pilled. Yes, he hated it, but as mentioned above, hopefully he will learn to assaociate feeling better with it. Yes, I would also slide his dish under the bed, anything to make sure he eats, especially after pilling, to make sure its down. I did that with Sammie. If I had to slide her bowl under the bed so she'd eat, I did! I say getting him to eat is a step forward. We know its going to be a process, but it sounds like your on the right track. When you pilled him, you just did what you had to do to help him. Most of us have been there. As he starts to feel better, and he sees that in time he is still there, the trust will build. Hang in there! I know its easier said than done, but you are doing it.
    Yes, maybe a med thats less yucky can be tried, & will help w/ the medicating. Disguising in tuna water, or something.
    I know medicating him is not easy, but as you continue to do it, he should hopefully feel & get better, and then turn the corner with all of this.
    You have been in my prayers!
    Im here for you.
    Big hugs!!!!! :hugs::hugs::hugs:

    Love,
    Kelly
     
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  8. artiemom

    artiemom Thread Starter Artie, my Angel; a part of my heart Top Cat

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    near Boston
    What is bothering me, currently: It is time to re-pill him.

    Geoffrey has been hiding under my bed all day.. not even coming up to me in the bathroom. That is very strange.

    We did play, but I was on my bed, and he would not allow himself or me, to even get close to him.

    He is now in food aversion--wet food..

    I fed him a bowl of dry and a bowl of wet, under the bed.. I had them side by side.

    Geoffrey began with the dry, then to the wet, then back to the dry, finishing with the wet.

    It is the exact same food that was out in the kitchen. He is now 'afraid' of the kitchen wet food.

    I do not know how I am going to get him out from under my bed, to pill.

    I hate to take the broom.. and using the wand toy, is not going to work, a second time.

    He has had 2 doses of the Metronidazole--flagyl..

    I know he has been through all of this before. He is too wise to the techniques.

    I wonder if he was a feral.. or what did his prior owner do to him? or was it that Geoffrey is just too frightened for help..

    Was he given up because his prior owner could not deal with him anymore?

    I wish we had answers. I know, in my heart, it was much more than the excuse given: "had to move; will not allow cats".....

    That is just an excuse.. and not a working telephone number..

    I feel as if Geoffrey was a 'dump' because of his issues. But how do I reach him?

    The Vet was right.. by pilling him, I have lost all the trust I had with him. He has withdrawn back into his shell..

    What do I do now? Feliway is running, I am constantly misting the herbal sprays.. it is not working...

    I cannot give him treats.. That is how I got him out of hiding..

    Vet will be in tomorrow.. Wednesday..

    so frustrated.

    I have the pill gun loaded and a syringe of water, next to my chair.. just dreading.. and trying to think of somehow to get him out from under the bed, and to grab onto him, without getting covered in my own blood... Wish I had an extra set of hands...
     
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  9. Kflowers

    Kflowers TCS Member Top Cat

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    If Geoffrey were a feral or close to one now, you would not have gotten that pill down him. You would have been doing some serious bleeding, the sort that you have to go sit down and wait for it to start then rest a bit.

    I'm really wondering about that shelter. Why didn't they warn you about his problem? They know you, they know your situation, but they said nothing. Did the problem not manifest there? If not, what were they feeding him?

    Maybe he doesn't like the Feliway or the herbal sprays. My cat went ballistic when we tried them. She was much nicer and more friendly without them. Geoffrey's been friendly before.
     

  10. LTS3

    LTS3 TCS Member Staff Member Forum Helper

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    From one of the other threads on Geoffrey, it seems that the shelter worker who took Geoffrey in didn't take a very good history from the owner. Plus the owner left a phone number that turned out to be fake. Who knows, maybe the owner even made up a sob story just to get rid of Geoffrey. So Geoffrey's exact history is unknown.

    Geoffrey apparently didn't have symptoms while at the shelter or the foster home. The acne, etc only started once Cindy adopted him.
     
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  11. angels mommy

    angels mommy TCS Member Top Cat

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    Oh Cindy, I am so sorry. This is tough.
    Did you ever end up vacuuming? What did he do? Was he under the bed, & stayed there, or if you got close to the other side of whete he is, would he run out from there with out getting too close to him? Then maybe just for pilling him, you could shut the bedroom door, so he can't go back in & out of reach. Then maybe try the borito wrap (tight!) him to pill. Just trying to think of ideas. I hate for him to be affraid of the vacuume, but aten't they all anyway, & you wouldn't actually be going after him with it. Like if hes on one end undrr the bed, vacuume on the otner end, & hopefully he'd run out thinking it was coming his way.
    Maybe better than the broom coming straight for him/ beside him (contact), even though you'd be guiding him out as gently as possible. Uhh, I wish I were there to help you!

    After reading above post, @Kflowers , has a point worth considering about the feliway.
    I was telling a friend of mine last night about all of this, ( he worked at a lrg vet/ hospital for 15 yrs) & said it doesn't work with some cats. That some take it as smelling another cat.
    I thought this was interesting, because its always worked for me. Worth considering though, & maybe just stick to the herbal sprays. I wonder if you got some rescue remedy, if he'd sense it in his food?
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
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  12. artiemom

    artiemom Thread Starter Artie, my Angel; a part of my heart Top Cat

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    near Boston
    The herbal sprays did wonders for him. Now, I guess his stress level is through the roof so they are not helping.

    Geoffy not exhibit any of this behavior in the shelter. He had normal stools, was eating like a horse and was so sweet

    There were 5 days between when I initially saw him and when he came home. I do not know what happened to him during that time.

    When I did go to get him, he was hidings i in a pillow case. Something spooked him really bad.

    Within a month, he lived in: his home, the foster, the isolation room and then the adoption area. He also had 2 vet exams. Plus my own.

    We were warned he was sensitive, but a real good cat. All the volunteers fell in love with him.

    Do not know what happened.

    At the foster’s he was fed: Friskies and Kirkland (Costco) dry. At the shelter it was Simply Nourish or Authority (Petsmart) brands food. At my place, I tried to keep it consistent with the shelter, but slipping in a bit of Wellness—which he loved. And then some other foods. Very slowly.

    I had to fight with him for the pulling tonight. Tried 5 treats to get him out from under my bed. Not successful. I had to close off the other rooms, get a broom. I hated that. I feel so bad.

    Got him out from the bed, into bathroom—I was too slow to grab him.

    Back under bed. Finally got Geoffrey out from under my bed an out of bedroom.

    Chased him around great room, cornering him in the kitchen. Grabbed him. He was so frightened.

    Pulled him. But he will not take water. Spits it out — weird.

    Ran back under bed. I put his food under there. Misted the apartment. He came out for a minute, saw me in the chair, went back under bed.

    I am feeling so bad— frustrated, upset, scared, knowing I have lost all the faith had in me. And I am afraid of the future with him. How am I going to keep doing this???

    Artie was so different. He was not great at medicating, but got used to it. At least Artie did not stay under my bed. He was much more confident.

    Need to take the food away from bed.
     
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  13. artiemom

    artiemom Thread Starter Artie, my Angel; a part of my heart Top Cat

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    He came out!! So excited. Afraid to move. I sneezed, moving my leg-hanging over arm of chair. He ran back under bed.

    It is dark in here. Just tv on.
     
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  14. artiemom

    artiemom Thread Starter Artie, my Angel; a part of my heart Top Cat

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    I went in to get the food. Geoffrey was out! He was readying to run under bed. I grabbed a wand toy, asking him: “Geoffrey want to play?? Play, Geoffrey; let’s play”.

    We had a rousing short play session. He is afraid of my hands and feet.
     
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  15. angels mommy

    angels mommy TCS Member Top Cat

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    Even though some difficult things, having to chase him to pill him, etc.. him coming out and actually playing is great! Baby steps, they are baby steps. Try to stay positive, and hopefully there will be more steps forward.
    Him coming out and then engaging him in play was a great positive reenforcement!
    Good job!
    As far as the food, if you are wanting to get him closer to back in the kitchen, maybe just start moving it a little at a time. First, still in your room, but nit under bed for a couple or few days, whatever time line you think. Then outside of your room, a little further towards the kitchen each time, etc. :)
     
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  16. Beyond Confused

    Beyond Confused TCS Member Adult Cat

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    You mentioned a whole bunch of different foods, which is understandable given his many moves.
    I'm wondering if a bland diet for a while would help settle his tummy and the diarrhea.
     
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  17. neely

    neely May the purr be with you Staff Member Forum Helper

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    Cindy, I know G thinks of hiding under your bed as his safe place but could you possibly block off the sides and front of your bed so he cannot get under it? Carleton also hides under our bed if we have to keep him in the bedroom because we're having work done, he needs medication, etc. I tried blocking off all access to underneath the bed and it worked. :yess: I don't know if this would work for G and you but just thought I'd suggest it. That way you wouldn't have to try coaxing him out or use a broom. I'm sure he'd find another hiding spot but maybe it would be a place that would be easier for you to reach him.
     
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  18. weebeasties

    weebeasties TCS Member Super Cat

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    I don't know if this will help but until you find out what is causing the diarrhea you can give him endosorb. It doesn't cure anything. It just firms up the stools and is supposed to ease cramps/pain from diarrhea. It comes in a tablet that is tasteless and dissolves in wet food when crushed.
    We gave this to Keith for a while so he wouldn't be so miserable. It really helped him. You could see he felt much better. Then we found out he had developed a food allergy. (To a food he had been eating for over 6 months with no problems) So we stopped the endosorb and changed his food and in a very short time no more diarrhea.
    Like I said, endosorb doesn't cure anything. It just lessens the symptoms until you find the cause. They must drink water while on it.

    Also (and I realize this is TMI) I myself will have "potty issues" when I am stressed. Been that way my whole life. I don't know if cats can be like humans in that respect, but poor Geoffrey seems to be in a constant state of stress. Just wondering if that is playing a part?
     
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  19. artiemom

    artiemom Thread Starter Artie, my Angel; a part of my heart Top Cat

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    I would love to get him out from under the bed. I just do not know if "now" is the right time or not.

    And; How do I block the bed? I am thinking, of the tops of a few plastic totes (which I have in the house)--somehow rigging them to stand on their side, a couple of laundry baskets, a couple of Chewy boxes.. I think he would just plow through the pillows..

    And then, There is also the area under my dresser. He goes under it also. I do not know if I have enough stuff to block all of it off. That area would have to be with pillows.. and I do not know if I have enough of those..

    That is kind of the purpose of sticking with the prescription rabbit. It is only one type of food being fed. The probiotic should help replace all the good stuff in the bowels..

    I never heard of it, but will keep it in mind.. and look it up.

    If that is TNI, then I am giving TNI also... I have microscopic colitis. When I get very stressed, it kicks in.. reduce the stress, and it subsides... weird.. the brain/body connection.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    This morning, Geoffrey woke me up well before 4am.. I thought it was later.. I did stay in bed for another 45 minutes, but there was no way of ignoring him.. he was walking all over me.. even standing on me.. I would ignore, he insisted... etc...

    He had pooped. He had one episode of diarrhea, and he had peed... the box was full. He is always telling me when his box is full or he pooped.

    The way he covers up his poop, is incredible. He ends up pushing all the litter to the end of the box..

    So only one episode of diarrhea; both yesterday and today.. 4 doses of Metro--flagyl,,,

    This morning.. he was so bad to pill. I had the pill gun made up, last night.

    When I got up, I put the pill gun and a water syringe next to my chair.

    We were playing, and I was able to get him on top of a small file cabinet. I grabbed him.. He was wild.. I did not have a towel near me.. I tried to pill him. It was impossible.. him clawing onto furniture, so strong, so squirmy..
    and claws out...

    I had to hold on to him very tightly, walk over to the towel, grab it.. go back to my chair.. which was moving all over the place, due to being on direct laminate.

    The chair was moving, G was desperately trying to get away.. I was trying to cover his paw claws, get the pill gun, hold him down, and get his mouth open.. OMG..

    We were both moving so much that I almost fell off the chair..

    Finally, when his head was behind my back.. we finally gave up---simultaneously--from exhaustion.

    I took a couple deep breathes, letting the stress flow out. He kind of did the same.. I was petting his bum, back side.. his head still wedged behind me.. Me twisted in the chair... Good thing I had on my heavy bathrobe..

    Finally, I was able to regroup.. and managed to get the pill down him.. He is so darn strong. He wants no part of the water.. spitting it out.. even when his mouth is shut..

    He spit out the first attempt at pilling.. Had to keep his mouth clamped shut....

    I wonder if his squeaky voice and lack of growling, is from some type of damage to his vocal cords... just an idea... who the heck knows...
    ~~~
    Now, he is afraid of eating the wet food, in the kitchen. Again, twice today; I had to feed him the same food, under the bed. Discovered he only trusts it, if I bring the bowl of dry with me, to accompany it..

    He is eating more dry.. and drinking water.
    ~~~
    He is very wary of me and playing.. sigh.
    He does not trust me.. still running away when I get too close to his "personal space'...

    another round of pilling, later today.. not too late, because I want to relax.. but I do have to attend a wake.. and it will be very crowded.

    He keeps going to the litter box, looks at it, goes in, sniffs, and then comes out.. do not know what to make of this.. not peeing much, but he is not getting all that much moisture-- from the wet.. Geoffrey is drinking water..

    I do not know if his lack of wanting to play this afternoon, is from the stress of pilling--each time we play.. or because of a bit lethargy from the Flagyl..

    Regular Vet will be back in tomorrow. I did leave a Voice mail update.. and will again tomorrow. Need to pick up some more cans of wet food.

    Do not expect to hear results of Specimen until next week.
     
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  20. artiemom

    artiemom Thread Starter Artie, my Angel; a part of my heart Top Cat

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    Dec 22, 2014
    near Boston
    That is a great idea... I may start doing that, in a day or so.. I just want to get him a bit more comfortable.. if that is even possible...

    OH>>> forgot to tell everyone..
    I found a chicken flavored gelatin gel cap.. Made out of pork.. without any real chicken in it. I guess it smells and tastes like chicken!!

    I order some.. I will let you guys know about it..
     
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