Frozen or Freeze-dried/Where to order/mild kidney disease

[spiderplant]

I'm wanting to add a prepared raw food to my cats'(ages about 6 months-16 years) diet again and there are no local options.  I've had frozen mice(snakes) shipped to me before but never frozen cat food and I really worry about the possibility of it thawing and refreezing during shipping.  Maybe that's not much of a concern?  I used to buy frozen Primal chicken/salmon from a previous vet and my cats absolutely loved it.  Right now I'm leaning towards freeze-dried Stella and Chewy's, though.  Any thoughts?  I'd also like suggestions on the best places to order from online.

Also, is there a list that shows the phosphorus levels in prepared raw diets?  I have three seniors and one has had mildly abnormal kidney levels a couple of times in the past(other times 100% normal) and does not have any symptoms of kidney disease but I'd like to of course avoid it.  I plan to heavily rehydrate the freeze-dried food(if I go that route) for all of them.

One more question.. does anyone add GSE or ACV to homemade or prepared raw?  I expressed my concerns(paranoia) to my previous vet and she said I could add GSE to their Primal to kill potential bacteria.  Is this recommended?  I'm obviously a little weary of meat(I'm a vegan myself) but I know cats' digestive systems are equipped to deal with it; I just don't want to take any chances.  They currently enjoy the pleasures of occasional cooked meat, sardines, and chicken baby food(for giving supplements) in addition to canned food(Natural Balance venison, EVO, etc) but I want to give them the healthiest diet possible. 

 

[ritz]

Welcome to the raw feeding forum.

Backwards, first:  what is GSE or ACV?  (A google search yields grapefruit seed extract/apple cider vinegar!?)  You are correct in that cats' digestive tracts are equipped to deal with potential bad bacteria.  I see no need to add GSE or ACV; but you should consider giving your cats a probiotic.  Human grade is fine--and cheaper than those marketed to dogs/cats.  Look for one with 10 billion (good) bacteria.

The US Department of Agriculture has a list of meats and their phosphorus levels.  Dr. Pierson has a chart for canned foods  listing phosphorus levels if you haven't see it already.  Here is an article about food and kidney disease .

Post #17 in this thread lists online sellers of raw food.  Lots of people use Hare Today with good success; the food I've ordered from them has always been frozen (and they also sell mice).  I'm a little surprised you can't find prepared raw food locally; where do you live?

 

[ldg]

Ritz, actually that food chart by Dr. Pierson lists the same information for raw - frozen and dehydrated. :nod: It's just at the end of the list, after all the canned foods - and maybe after the prescription foods? But it's in there! http://www.catinfo.org/docs/Food Chart Public 9-22-12.pdf

But SpiderPlant, if you're thinking of using Primal (frozen) or Stella & Chewy's, a number of the Primal frozen raw flavors and ALL of the S&C dehydrated foods are already pathogen-free guaranteed. They're treated with High Pressure Pasteurization: http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/10/22/sterile-raw-pet-food.aspx

And SpiderPlant? There's a number of other vegans on TCS feeding raw! I think you'd be the 7th one I'm aware of? (And that's not counting the vegetarians. ).

I know this isn't what you want to hear but.... with kidney disease, to feed raw you actually do best making your own. By using eggshell as the calcium source instead of bone, this significantly lowers the phosphorus profile of the food. I feed my cats frankenprey, and I use both bone, eggshell, and freeze dried bone. But mschauer analyzes my diets for me, and we worked with someone who wanted to build a tailor-made diet for a CKD kitty. We analyzed the frankenprey diet with no bone or freeze dried bone, and using only eggshell as the calcium source, and it worked out to 0.8% phosphorus on a dry matter basis.

 

[spiderplant]

Thank you so much for the replies.  I've been experiencing headaches(severe, due to a head injury) and it's been difficult for me to be on my computer.  I did, however, make it out to our local feed store and saw that they have a new freezer with Primal(all formulas) and Northwest Naturals.  I've recently moved from the West Coast to the Upper Midwest, btw, and access to quality food(for both myself/the cats) and good veterinarians is now limited.

I feel guilty for not having switched my cats to raw sooner but, now that I work from home/have a less busy work schedule, I feel it's finally something I can do.  I have a great deal of research to do before I feel confident enough to switch them to raw but it does indeed appear that homemade raw(must buy freezer and meat grinder!) is the best option for my cat(the love of my life) with kidney issues.  I've kept him on mostly Natural Balance Venison and Green Pea for years now due to fear that switching his diet could aggravate his symptoms.  He saw a vet(for acupuncture) in our previous location who recommended raw(frozen Primal) but our regular vet was completely opposed to it.  As I said, his bloodwork has been abnormal(mild kidney disease) a few times over the past 7 years(he's had A LOT of bloodwork) or so but has been completely normal at other times.  I've honestly been afraid to try something different for this reason.  I've also given him various supplements including ubiquinol, Life Extension Cat Mix, lactoferrin, a probiotic, DMG, and fish oil.  I managed a supplement store for over 6 years so my cats were subjected to various supplements

All of my cats receive probiotics(at this time they just take mine: Jarrodophilus) as well as occasional enzymes(Mercola), Barley Cat(they love the taste), and Colostrum Plus(Symbiotics).  I just purchased Stella and Chewy's freeze dried chicken formula online but my goal is to do homemade.  I have no ethical objections(as a vegan, since I was a child) to feeding them real food, btw; I just feel I'm currently not knowledgeable enough about meat/raw diets to do so.  I have my partner on board with this change, though, and I'm hoping to learn a lot from this forum/all the links that are recommended.  

Thanks again for the replies

 

[harleydiva]

Not sure where you are in the Midwest....but you might check out www.mypetcarnivore.com.  They do monthly deliveries around the midwest. 

 

[auntie crazy]

Just throwing this out there for you... phosphorus is a required component of a balanced feline diet and it might be a good idea to determine definitively if your cat actually "needs" reduced levels as soon as you can. It won't hurt - shouldn't hurt - to feed a boneless diet for a short time, but if your sweet boy doesn't need low phosphorus levels, you'd probably do better by him to feed a completely balanced menu (80-85% meat, 5-10% bone, 5% liver, 5% some other secreting organ).
 

Taking the plunge into raw foods, especially home-prepared, can be very scary. I applaud you for taking that step, SpiderPlant!

AC

 

[harleydiva]

Is too much phosphorus a problem, or is it the calcium to phosphorus balance??  If balance is the issue, check into raw green tripe....it has a "perfect" 1:1 calcium-phosphorus ratio.

 

[spiderplant]

I have a lot to learn and I think the first step is getting recent(last was a little over 6 months ago) bloodwork/urinalysis. I requested these things at his last appointment but the vet did nothing. Yes, it's frustrating but I have a short list of other vets to try.I had the paperwork to send for a diet recommendation from UC Davis based on his last bloodwork/exam there but they only do cooked diets, unfortunately. It would be great if I didn't have to worry so much about phosphorus and could feed them all the same diet but.. we'll see. In the meantime, I'm going to add some prepared raw as I don't think it could be worse for my kidney cat than canned?