Friend got a "Bengal" and I am unconvinced....

[tarasgirl06]

I understand why you wouldn't want to make your friend feel that you doubt her story. But when you do eventually get around to talking with her about it, you don't have to make it sound like you believe she was scammed. Even if the kitten isn't a Bengal, that wouldn't necessarily mean it was a scam. Maybe the person who raised the kittens decided their cat was a Bengal based on pictures they saw online, and then thought it was accurate to advertise the cat's kittens as Bengals. Most people who misrepresent kittens' breeds are just misinformed, and don't intend to scam others.

It's also theoretically possible, I guess, that the kitten could be a pet quality Bengal, going through the "fuzzy" developmental stage during which the coat pattern is not very clear... although it's really not typical of a Bengal to have that type of broken mackerel coat pattern... and at this time it just looks like an adorable little domestic shorthair kitten.

In any case, even if the kitten isn't a Bengal, that wouldn't mean that the kitten is any less special! Domestic shorthair cats are just as wonderful pets as any pedigreed cat. Sometimes, for example with pet insurance, it can even be advantageous if your cat is identified as a domestic shorthair rather than a pedigreed cat (especially a hybrid breed like a Bengal).

 

[jefferd18]

jefferd18 I was curious about the kitty in the picture you posted, because it has a broken mackerel pattern which is not typical for the Bengal breed. So I did a google image search, and found that it seems to be one of those stock images that is all over the web without attribution. Lots of stock images of cats labeled as a specific breed aren't really that breed at all... so I don't think we can confidently assert that the kitty in your picture is indeed a Bengal. It does have a high contrast between pattern and background, and as this is a trait of the Bengal breed, I think it's possible that the kitty in the picture you posted has some Bengal ancestry... we don't know for sure, but possible. If you look at the pictures posted by @SirenSong you will also see a high contrast between spots and ground color.

Comparing to the OP's pictures however, you will notice a big difference. The OP's pictures do not show the same degree of contrast between pattern and background. The lower contrast pattern in the OP's pictures appears more typical of a random bred domestic cat, rather than a cat with Bengal ancestry.

"It's also theoretically possible, I guess, that the kitten could be a pet quality Bengal, going through the "fuzzy" developmental stage during which the coat pattern is not very clear.."

" It does have a high contrast between pattern and background, and as this is a trait of the Bengal breed, I think it's possible that the kitty in the picture you posted has some Bengal ancestry... we don't know for sure, but possible."

Okay, I'm confused- is the kitten a Bengal or not?

 

[jefferd18]

All I've learned is that she is "from a breeder" in a nearby town which I can find no mention of a Bengal breeder there. And this adorkable photo of the little thing LOL.


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I'm not really pressing for information as again I don't want to plant that seed of doubt for her

She's a keeper.

 

[lutece]

Okay, I'm confused- is the kitten a Bengal or not?

I'm sorry if I confused you jefferd18 . The kitten in the OP's pictures is probably not a Bengal. It looks like a typical brown mackerel tabby domestic shorthair kitten, and there is really nothing in the pictures to suggest Bengal ancestry at all. However, sometimes pet quality kittens do not look typical for their breed, so I would allow for the theoretical possibility that it's a pet quality Bengal going through the "fuzzy" stage and its pattern might look more contrasty when it matures. Does that help?

 

[jefferd18]

I'm sorry if I confused you jefferd18 . The kitten in the OP's pictures is probably not a Bengal. It looks like a typical brown mackerel tabby domestic shorthair kitten, and there is really nothing in the pictures to suggest Bengal ancestry at all. However, sometimes pet quality kittens do not look typical for their breed, so I would allow for the theoretical possibility that it's a pet quality Bengal going through the "fuzzy" stage and its pattern might look more contrasty when it matures. Does that help?

In a word- no. What is a pet quality Bengal?

 

[Willowy]

In a word- no. What is a pet quality Bengal?

Pet quality purebreds are those that do not meet show standards. They wouldn't win any prizes in the ring. There are different degrees---some just have a very subtle mismark or hold their tail slightly wrong, some have physical differences like an overbite or underbite or a wonky paw, some barely look like the breed they are. But most kittens out of a purebred litter will be pet quality.

 

[jefferd18]

Pet quality purebreds are those that do not meet show standards. They wouldn't win any prizes in the ring. There are different degrees---some just have a very subtle mismark or hold their tail slightly wrong, some have physical differences like an overbite or underbite or a wonky paw, some barely look like the breed they are. But most kittens out of a purebred litter will be pet quality.

So in other words the white footed Siamese that my mother bought from a breeder years ago would be a pet quality Siamese.

Thank you for explaining, Willowy.

 

[lutece]

Generally, a pet quality kitten doesn't meet the show standard well enough to be likely to win awards. It might have a disqualifying fault, or it might meet the show standard fairly well, but just not be a good enough example of the breed to be competitive in the show ring.

So in other words the white footed Siamese that my mother bought from a breeder years ago would be a pet quality Siamese.

White feet would definitely cause a Siamese to be pet quality. However, obvious faults like white markings don't happen often in most breeding programs. In practice, a pet quality Siamese would be more likely to have a more subtle show fault that most pet buyers wouldn't even notice, such as the ears being set too high on the head, or profile not straight enough, not enough contrast between point color and body color, etc.

... most kittens out of a purebred litter will be pet quality.

Willowy, I'd agree with what you said, except for this last statement. The typical percentage of pet quality kittens in a litter will depend on the breed and bloodlines... but in general, if MOST of your kittens are pet quality, you're either working with a very challenging breed, or you're not working with good quality bloodlines. Most of my kittens are show quality, by which I mean that most meet the standard closely enough that they could achieve Grand Champion / Grand Premier if properly shown. In a good litter, all of the kittens may be show quality.

 

[jefferd18]

Generally, a pet quality kitten doesn't meet the show standard well enough to be likely to win awards. It might have a disqualifying fault, or it might meet the show standard fairly well, but just not be a good enough example of the breed to be competitive in the show ring.

White feet would definitely cause a Siamese to be pet quality. However, obvious faults like white markings don't happen often in most breeding programs. In practice, a pet quality Siamese would be more likely to have a more subtle show fault that most pet buyers wouldn't even notice, such as the ears being set too high on the head, or profile not straight enough, not enough contrast between point color and body color, etc.



The breeder said it was a recessive trait that happens every blue moon.

 

[jefferd18]

The breeder said it was a recessive trait that happens every blue moon.[/QUOTE]

 

[lutece]

The "Birman gloving" gene that causes white feet is a recessive trait. At this time, there is actually a test for the "Birman gloving" gene commercially available through UC Davis, so if this line of Siamese was carrying "Birman gloving" causing the white feet, the breeder would now be able to test for it and breed it out. The wonders of science

 

[jefferd18]

The "Birman gloving" gene that causes white feet is a recessive trait. At this time, there is actually a test for the "Birman gloving" gene commercially available through UC Davis, so if this line of Siamese was carrying "Birman gloving" causing the white feet, the breeder would now be able to test for it and breed it out. The wonders of science

I am glad she didn't. The white feet on my mother's kitten made her unique and striking.

 

[lutece]

I've heard people say that about certain show faults... for example, in the Russian Blue breed, some lines carry colorpoint, and I've heard that some pet buyers actually prefer the blue pointed kittens even though they don't look like typical Russian Blues. The top winning Household Pet in my region last year was a blue pointed Russian Blue. You can see her on this page: CFA Northwest Region - 2018-19 Regional Household Pet Winners

However, most pet quality kittens have much more subtle differences from the show standard than that!

 

[jefferd18]

I've heard people say that about certain show faults... for example, in the Russian Blue breed, some lines carry colorpoint, and I've heard that some pet buyers actually prefer the blue pointed kittens even though they don't look like typical Russian Blues. The top winning Household Pet in my region last year was a blue pointed Russian Blue. You can see her on this page: CFA Northwest Region - 2018-19 Regional Household Pet Winners

However, most pet quality kittens have much more subtle differences from the show standard than that!

Never would have thought that she was a Russian Blue- she looks like a blue point Siamese.

 

[lutece]

Color is the most superficial feature on a cat, and the difference between solid blue and blue point is just one gene... but color definitely does influence our perceptions! If you look closely (and especially if you see the cat in person), the head type, body type, and coat texture are all different from the Siamese. The cat is a Russian Blue in every way other than color.

 

[Willowy]

In a good litter, all of the kittens may be show quality.

Huh, I stand corrected, thank you. Yet another way cats are different from dogs. Even the best dog breeder will be lucky to get one show-quality pup out of a litter, and dogs have big litters. I wonder why there's such a big difference.

 

[lutece]

Huh, I stand corrected, thank you. Yet another way cats are different from dogs. Even the best dog breeder will be lucky to get one show-quality pup out of a litter, and dogs have big litters. I wonder why there's such a big difference.

Maybe because dogs have more genetic diversity than cats? Dogs have twice as many chromosomes, and a lot more physical variability...

 

[rosegold]

Huh, I stand corrected, thank you. Yet another way cats are different from dogs. Even the best dog breeder will be lucky to get one show-quality pup out of a litter, and dogs have big litters. I wonder why there's such a big difference.

Having been involved in the dog show world, I wonder if this depends on breed...? That hasn’t been my experience at all. For my breed (salukis) I think it’d be more likely to have one or two pet-quality puppies in a show-quality litter, rather than the opposite. My dog was one of 11 puppies, all of which were shown and pointed, and 9 of which became champions. But maybe the rarity of the breed has something to do with it.

 

[di and bob]

If she doesn't have papers it is very unlikely it is a Bengal. Every tabby kitten I have had starts out with spots that join together and form stripes when they get older. Bengals don't have spots, they have rosettes that are a circle of darker color with lighter in the middle and often a smaller 'spot'. I just hope your friend didn't get scammed. If it is from a breeder I would insist on seeing papers on parents ar ANY cat in their program, and or registration with a cat breeders association. If they can't be shown turn them in to that countries breeders asscociation.
It could be a poorer quality coat, or not a show quality cat, so that could explain that, but it shouldn't be sold for much then, and most breeders spay/neuter them before they leave, or have the buyer sign a contract to do so. No matter what, it is a beautiful kitten, and if your friend is happy, you should be so too. i wish them many happy years!

 

[lutece]

Having been involved in the dog show world, I wonder if this depends on breed...? That hasn’t been my experience at all. For my breed (salukis) I think it’d be more likely to have one or two pet-quality puppies in a show-quality litter, rather than the opposite. My dog was one of 11 puppies, all of which were shown and pointed, and 9 of which became champions. But maybe the rarity of the breed has something to do with it.

Yes, this kind of high average quality is what I would expect from a well-managed breeding program for cats, although of course you don't see many litters of 11 kittens