Freya has weird neurological/mental issues

[Antonio65]

My cat Freya is having really weird issues, and I'm getting nuts.
She's generally lovely, quiet and cuddly, she follows me when I call her, plays a lot, she's very smart and learns things quickly.

But... Occasionally she goes through some "mental blackouts", and when these happen, it seems she doesn't even remember or understand where she is, who is around her and where her things (dishes and litter box) are.
This happens suddenly, out of the blue. She can be lovely and playful now, she is completely forgetful and disoriented the minute later. And the "mental blackout" can last half a day to a few days. And it ends at the same speed as it started, though, usually, it seems that this sort of "spell" vanishes after one of her visits at the litter box. Please, notice that she can visit her litter box a few times during the day(s) she's in this condition, but then one of those visits wakes her up from this magic spell. At least, I think I have noticed this pattern. I didn't found what triggers this issue yet.

When she's in this condition, she mainly fears us, doesn't recognize us, tends to hide or run away from us, and of course doesn't know her name anymore. She may stand or lie in a safe corner or place and looks at us with fear, she lies flat and her pupils are dilated most of the time, doesn't want to eat.

In the last month it happened three times. First time on April 23, it only lasted a few hours. Second time on April 30 to May 1, a little longer than a day. Then over the past weekend. She started acting strange on Saturday evening, she was quite stoned or disoriented yesterday, doing strange things, until this morning at 9, when she visited her litter box, she peed, and when she came out of it she was her usual.

I believe that all began after this terrible episode a year ago. After that scary night, she had three more minor episodes, about two weeks apart from each other.
Freya was seen by a few vets, had several complete blood works done, all of them came back clear. She was seen by a neurologist too, who thought she might have a brain anomaly of unknown nature, and he advised me to have an MRI scan done, though, he said, once that we have a reason for that, we will hardly have a therapy or a treatment to correct it.

Any of you, do you have ever heard of or dealt with something like this?
Thanks!

 

[Tigger's Mum]

Sounds like epilepsy to me. There are two types of seizures. Petit Mal which means the person/animal "zones out" and the Grand Mal where the person/animal starts fitting and twitching - that's the one most people are familiar with. Sounds like Freya is having Petit Mals so I do think you need to see the vet again and get an MRI and other neurological tests done. If it is Petit Mals, there are drugs available that can control it.

It might also be a good idea to video one of these episodes to show your vet exactly what's happening.

Please let us know how you get on.

 

[Antonio65]

Can the Petit Mal leave long lasting symptoms like the one I described. shouldn't everything go back to normal after some minutes?
In my case we are talking hours, if not days.

The video would be a good idea when she had those heavy and scary episodes, but it would be hard to prove anything when she's just ignoring me or walking around looking for her dish.

 

[Tigger's Mum]

Can the Petit Mal leave long lasting symptoms like the one I described. shouldn't everything go back to normal after some minutes?
In my case we are talking hours, if not days.

Yes it can. One of my former work colleagues suffered from Petit Mals. Sometimes he got over it quickly, other times he had to take a day or two off work so I think it would be the same for cats. He used to describe the after effects as feeling his head was stuffed with cottonwool.

Is Freya displaying any other symptoms such as only being able to turn in one direction? Do her eyes flicker from side to side (Nystagmus)?

 

[Antonio65]

Is Freya displaying any other symptoms such as only being able to turn in one direction? Do her eyes flicker from side to side (Nystagmus)?

No, no other symptoms apart from what I described.
Occasionally I think I can predict she is going to walk into one of those phases when I see her exploring the house, peeping behind piece of furniture, digging at the back of the sofa pillow, though not everytime these are signals of something coming.

I can never look at her as a normal cat. After what she had march last year, I have never been able to look at her without a bit of concern.

 

[Antonio65]

The first occurrence in March last year was very dramatic and scary.
What was that? Something different?
Epilepsy with tremors, shaking and twitching is something that I know, and it only lasts a minute or so, on rare cases up to two or three minutes. What Freya had last year lasted over half an hour!

 

[Tigger's Mum]

Epilepsy with tremors, shaking and twitching is something that I know, and it only lasts a minute or so, on rare cases up to two or three minutes. What Freya had last year lasted over half an hour!

I believe that is not uncommon and the length of the seizure varies from cat to cat also the frequency. Most will come out of the seizure fairly quickly but the after affects can linger for a day or more.

 

[SundaesPerson]

I believe that is not uncommon and the length of the seizure varies from cat to cat also the frequency. Most will come out of the seizure fairly quickly but the after affects can linger for a day or more.

This. I have a friend who suffers from epilepsy. Her seizures can last anywhere from a minute to 20 minutes, and she can sometimes have consecutive seizures and while she usually comes out of it very well, she's often groggy and tired for the next few days or so. I'd imagine a cat would experience much the same thing.

 

[Antonio65]

UPDATE:

When I came home from work yesterday, Freya was quiet, too quiet. She wasn't playing, or running around, or looking out the window. She wasn't doing anything of her usual actions. She was quiet in her bed, and didn't move even when I prepared their meals.
When I put the dish down she just had a look at it, then she walked away. I removed the dish and proposed it to her half an hour later, she just licked something, then she laid on the window sill.

Then something new happened. She went to the litter box, but came out quickly, she didn't produce anything. Then again, and again, and again... at least fifteen times in about 20 or 25 minutes. Eventually she produced a tiny amount of pee, not her usual.
So off we went to the vet clinic, in emergency hours, with a vet I had never seen before and who knew nothing of Freya and I had to waste (literally waste) over 20 minutes telling her everything of the cat.
Then the vet proceeded with the visits, she found nothing, apart from some urine in Freya's bladder, and thought it was wise to hold Freya for the night and run a few test next morning (today). She tried to put an venous access to Freya, but she failed at the first attempt because Freya had turned into the devil herself. The vet turned rude. Freya hissed, growled, bit, scratched, it was something that I wasn't even aware she could be able to do, she had never been like that before. It was shock to me!
Freya peed on her the vet, soiling her whole gown. I was quite happy for that, it served her right for being rude during the visit.

A second vet arrived and with her help they were able to insert this access, then prepared Freya for her overnight stay at the clinic. She was scared to death, I had never seen her in that condition before, it was like looking at a different cat.

The second vet knew Freya very well, she had visited the cat a few times and knew everything about her past neurological issues. Both agreed that they will tell the neurologist about Freya as soon as they have all blood works done.
They both think it can be a form of epilepsy. The first episode, on March 22, 2021, was the event that triggered something in her brain, though they both agreed that a fit lasting so long (at least 40 minutes) would have killed anybody.
They also said that what made me take her to the clinic, Freya's inability to urinate, might be neurogenic bladder, likely linked to her existing condition.

I will have some news later today, and probably I could bring Freya home after 6 pm.

That look in her eyes is something I had never seen before

 

[Antonio65]

NEW UPDATE:

The neurologist called, and told me he visited Freya, and his opinion is that the litter box issues I noticed last night might well be caused by a cystitis, but also they might be caused by a neurological problem.
He's rather positive that Freya suffers from a focal epilepsy with unusual symptoms, like mind fog rather than fits and seizure.

He thinks that something has triggered the first event last year, and then the episodes are occuring at regular times. He thinks that because they appeared last year in March to May, then nothing during the summer and winter, and again this year starting probably in March (again) and continuing in April and May, it might something linked to the increasing light in the day.

My opinion is that the trigger are the sexual hormones. Freya had her first episode when she was nearly 6 months old, the time when I had planned her spaying, and I strongly suspect that her spaying wasn't complete. Due to other health issues, she was spayed at the age of 10 months, and I believe they might have left a follicle behind and this gives cyclic hormonal storms. The fact that the last episodes are almost evenly spaced (8 to 13 days) just like they were last year, makes me think it is like the heat cycle in cats that appears every 10 to 15 days.
Freya didn't show any classic signs of heat before the surgery, so even now I couldn't tell if she's in heat or what.
What I know is that she acts like suddenly meowing out loud, or trying to dart outdoor, but not always, only for a few days every, say, 10 to 15 days.
That's the reason why I started THIS THREAD last October. I discussed this with the neurologist today and he said it makes sense and he will talk to another vet who is very expert in breeding and hormonal stuff.

Meanwhile I have to start with pilling Freya twice a day with phenobarbital at the lowest dose possible, we will see the effects, then have another blood work done in three weeks and see if the dosage in her blood is correct.
This is not was what I wished for my kitty...
I hope my theory about the hormones is correct.

Still don't know whether she can home later today.

 

[Timewarpcat]

My cats are taking phenobarbitol for seizures from toxoplasmosis in the CNS. It works very well, and is easy to give in pill pockets. They were drowsy and wobbly for about a month and have mostly adjusted now. One cat fell several times jumping, so I suggest you set up an extra step for the cat tree. It took a week or more for the phenobarbitol to build up to the point they got side effects.

I was told to be as exact as possible splitting the pills, to do it once a day so at least the daily dose is exact. And I give the pills at 730, with only small deviations from that. I guess that's important too. When I split in the score line, I dint let the knife go all the way into the pill. I am cracking the pill. Else it crumbles.

Good luck.

It's not clear, I give phenobarbitol 2x a day, that's most common

 

[Antonio65]

My cats are taking phenobarbitol for seizures from toxoplasmosis in the CNS. It works very well, and is easy to give in pill pockets.

I've been told that the pills I have to give her are rather small and with a well marked double score line that allows to divide them in four.

They were drowsy and wobbly for about a month and have mostly adjusted now. One cat fell several times jumping, so I suggest you set up an extra step for the cat tree. It took a week or more for the phenobarbitol to build up to the point they got side effects.

The neurologist told me that the first side effects, like lethargy, drowsiness, appear in he first days, then the cat adjusts to the dose.
I foresee several accidents, then. Freya loves to jump. From the table to the window sill, from the chair to my shoulder while I'm pasing by. She will miss the target and fall several times.

Mainly, I hope she will eat. She ate very little in the last three days, to the point that I wonder how she can still stand.

I was told to be as exact as possible splitting the pills, to do it once a day so at least the daily dose is exact. And I give the pills at 730, with only small deviations from that. I guess that's important too.

This is what the vet told me.

I'm going to collect her at the clinic in a hour and a half.

 

[Tigger's Mum]

I urge you to get the MRI done if only to rule out any brain tumours. Not a nice thing to consider but I lost one of my beloved cats to a brain tumour 12 years ago. It was on the brain stem and was inoperable.

 

[Antonio65]

I urge you to get the MRI done if only to rule out any brain tumours. Not a nice thing to consider but I lost one of my beloved cats to a brain tumour 12 years ago. It was on the brain stem and was inoperable.

The neurologist mentioned the MRI today, but he thinks it's a thing that can be done later, as soon as we see the meds are working.
He didn't put it aside, only said to wait.

EDIT: I think if it was a brain tumor, symptoms should have worsened over a year.

 

[Tigger's Mum]

EDIT: I think if it was a brain tumor, symptoms should have worsened over a year.

Not necessarily. With my cat the tumour didn't show up until he had a kind of fit. By the time we drove him to the vet he'd come out of it and seemed to be back to normal. However, a few weeks later he collapsed and we didn't think he was going to survive the night but he did. That was on the Sunday afternoon. By evening, he had come from death's door to meowing for food. The next day, my husband had not long gone to work when Snowy had another episode. I was able to rush him to the vet while the symptoms were still present and that's when the vet diagnosed a brain stem tumour. She explained that a pocket of fluid builds up around the tumour, bursts then dissipates relieving pressure on the brain for a while. Where the tumour was, it was inoperable and heartbreakingly Snowy had to be PTS. It had been a slow growing tumour until it became big enough to cause serious problems.

Some tumours can be removed either by surgery and/or chemo/radiotherapy and that is why it is imperative to have the MRI. That way you get a definitive answer and can treat accordingly.

Going back almost 50 years, my mother-in-law's cat displayed similar behaviour to your cat but it wasn't until she was hit by a car that the tumour showed up - it was big enough to be seen on the xray. The vet said she had been born with it - explained why her mother rejected her at birth and my brother-in-law who the mother cat belonged to managed eventually to get the mother to accept the kitten.

This is probably what you don't want to read and I apologise for that but your cat's welfare is paramount.

 

[Timewarpcat]

I didn't have an MRI done because the cost is about $3000 US and a 3 hour commute each way. When I thought the first cat may have a brain tumor, I inquired about the surgery at the university clinic and it is $3000+ although the good thing is that most cat tumors are operable.

It turned out my vet solved the problem anyway with a blood test (toxoplasmosis).

Your vet sounds great to me, working the problem and giving excellent instructions.

 

[IndyJones]

I didn't have an MRI done because the cost is about $3000 US and a 3 hour commute each way. When I thought the first cat may have a brain tumor, I inquired about the surgery at the university clinic and it is $3000+ although the good thing is that most cat tumors are operable.

It turned out my vet solved the problem anyway with a blood test (toxoplasmosis).

Your vet sounds great to me, working the problem and giving excellent instructions.

The problem with brain tumours specifically is the location. Even in people brain tumour is often inoperable due to the location. Those who do have an operation can have serious problems.

I know of a woman who had a brain tumour surgical procedure and she was comatose for a week after the operation. She still has trouble speaking and memory problems. She also no longer drives because she doesn't feel comfortable.

Brain tumour is extremely tricky to operate on.

 

[Timewarpcat]

yup, a friend of mine had a doctor friend who chose not to get the brain surgery and died 5 years later and did not regret the choice.

It's a hard thing to decide whether to treat aggressively or choose palliative care. As I've aged, I lean towards the latter more and more. That's something that should definitely be discussed with vets/doctors when the medical problem is grave.

 

[IndyJones]

Yeah this woman was in her late 40s when the operation was done. Giving up driving because of her slower response was extremely difficult. She used to have a vintage Chevrolet with fins on the back and loved to drive with the top down in nice weather. She had to sell it.

At least we can explain to a person what is going on and what limits they have, an animal like a cat doesn't understand. You can't explain to a cat their memory is bad because of a surgery or that they can no longer operate a vehicle because it's dangerous.

 

[Tigger's Mum]

At least we can explain to a person what is going on and what limits they have, an animal like a cat doesn't understand. You can't explain to a cat their memory is bad because of a surgery or that they can no longer operate a vehicle because it's dangerous.

For our beloved cats (and other animals) the question is not "How long will the cat live if I go ahead with this procedure" but "Is the cat in pain?" "Is the cat's quality of life going to be/will be affected?" "Will the cat suffer adverse effects of the medication and be sick and miserable?"

Then there "Do I take a chance on this and hope for a good outcome?" Difficult questions and no easy answers.