Found these babies under a construction site

[sal17]

In box is boy girl on bottom

 

[StefanZ]

They are obviously pointed cats. Being that dark already as kittens, my guess is they are the less common combo of siamese and burmese points.

 

[Meowmee]

In box is boy girl on bottomView attachment 484923View attachment 484924

Gorgeous kittens They look like traditional siamese. The boy is a sealpoint, the girl is a bluepoint.Thanks for saving them

 

[StefanZ]

I dawns on my, yes the boy in box reminds of a traditional siamese, with his somewhat prolonged muzzle.
Girl with her round head reminds about burmese.

And perhaps here we have a confirmation of our riddle: One parent was a decently purebred siamese old type, the other parent was a decently purebred blue burmese.
there occured an opps mating and litter, and the byb breeder made himself rid of them, where he hoped they would be found by some good person...


You will simply see if they continue to darken up before they are adult - IF so, they are this combo of points.
Observe, if that is the case, its not sure they will be good blue eyed. Burma doesnt carry blue eyes...
The cats breeds whom are a combo, the siamese alike Tonkinese cat - these breeders breed on blue eyes.

IF they dont darken much more on the body untill late adulthood, they are siamese point mixes...

 

[Meowmee]

I dawns on my, yes the boy in box reminds of a traditional siamese, with his somewhat prolonged muzzle.
Girl with her round head reminds about burmese.

And perhaps here we have a confirmation of our riddle: One parent was a decently purebred siamese old type, the other parent was a decently purebred blue burmese.
there occured an opps mating and litter, and the byb breeder made himself rid of them, where he hoped they would be found by some good person...


You will simply see if they continue to darken up before they are adult - IF so, they are this combo of points.
Observe, if that is the case, its not sure they will be good blue eyed. Burma doesnt carry blue eyes...
The cats breeds whom are a combo, the siamese alike Tonkinese cat - these breeders breed on blue eyes.

IF they dont darken much more on the body untill late adulthood, they are siamese point mixes...

I have seen siamese traditional on siamese forums that have the face shape of the girl too. They are both gorgeous

 

[Kris107]

They are ADORABLE! I'd want them both! I love me some color pointed DSHs. The boy - are his legs white? The girl looks like a blue point and the boy maybe a snowshoe type if he has white on him or light legs.

 

[Caspers Human]

Hey, hey hey! Way-way-wait a minute! Hold the phone! How did not one but TWO Siamese beauties like these end up at a construction site?!

These aren't your ordinary tabby cat! They're a distinct breed! If one or more of their ancestors/parents were outdoor, street cats, how did they stay pure (or mostly pure) Siamese?

Did a pregnant Siamese mother escape and get lost? Did some unscrupulous person dump those kittens there?

Inquiring minds want to know!

If I was you, I'd be revisiting the site where you found those babies, from time to time, looking to see if the mother is still around!

 

[StefanZ]

If we presume they are mixes, a pointed parent mated with a carrier, will give half the kittens pointed... But statistics arent ironclad, it may be the whole litter too (even if less common). Or none (even if less common).

If its two non pointed gene carriers, typically 1 in four will be pointed, but again, statistics arent ironclad...

There is also always the question of BYB breeders, whom may dump an oops litter.

Why, even serious breeders may have such problems, both with oops litter and with unwished variations. For example, there are rumors when a pointed kitten is born in a breed supposed to not have pointed, some breeders pts or get rid of that kitten, to not get bad reputation...

In russian blue world the tide has changed; nowadays we do accept pointed kittens are occasionally born. Because our breeding base is smallish, and its nothing wrong with pointed kittens, even if we cant use them in breeding programmes... There are other genes more important to hunt down.

 

[Meowmee]

If we presume they are mixes, a pointed parent mated with a carrier, will give half the kittens pointed... But statistics arent ironclad, it may be the whole litter too (even if less common). Or none (even if less common).

If its two non pointed gene carriers, typically 1 in four will be pointed, but again, statistics arent ironclad...

There is also always the question of BYB breeders, whom may dump an oops litter.

Why, even serious breeders may have such problems, both with oops litter and with unwished variations. For example, there are rumors when a pointed kitten is born in a breed supposed to not have pointed, some breeders pts or get rid of that kitten, to not get bad reputation...

In russian blue world the tide has changed; nowadays we do accept pointed kittens are occasionally born. Because our breeding base is smallish, and its nothing wrong with pointed kittens, even if we cant use them in breeding programmes... There are other genes more important to hunt down.

Can you get a pointed kitten(s) with two non cp carrying parents? I did not know that. I thought they had to inherit it somewhere down the line first and carry it to pass it on.

 

[Meowmee]

Hey, hey hey! Way-way-wait a minute! Hold the phone! How did not one but TWO Siamese beauties like these end up at a construction site?!

These aren't your ordinary tabby cat! They're a distinct breed! If one or more of their ancestors/parents were outdoor, street cats, how did they stay pure (or mostly pure) Siamese?

Did a pregnant Siamese mother escape and get lost? Did some unscrupulous person dump those kittens there?

Inquiring minds want to know!

If I was you, I'd be revisiting the site where you found those babies, from time to time, looking to see if the mother is still around!

My thoughts too, it looks like a breeder etc. may have dumped them, but mixed kittens can have a lot of the features, still they look pb. Sad if that is the case.

 

[Caspers Human]

some breeders pts or get rid of that kitten, to not get bad reputation...

So... Let's see...

1) A breeder could sell non-conforming kittens as pets, without papers and with a clause in the sales contract that they be neutered before they are six months old.

2) A breeder could dump non-conforming kittens at a construction site, hoping that some good Samaritan will find them and take them home before they get squashed by a steam roller.

Which breeder should have the better reputation?

 

[StefanZ]

So... Let's see...

1) A breeder could sell non-conforming kittens as pets, without papers and with a clause in the sales contract that they be neutered before they are six months old.

2) A breeder could dump non-conforming kittens at a construction site, hoping that some good Samaritan will find them and take them home before they get squashed by a steam roller.

Which breeder should have the better reputation?

Aside of your rhetoric question, both variations happened in the world of for example, Russian blue breeders. With the addition, a responsible breeder sooner pts a kitten, not risking it suffering. but yeah, it happened they got rid of pointed rb this way or another.

Nowadays the tide has changed and both RB breeders and breeders of Sibirian cat, spare their pointed kittens.
IN RB they are sold as pets "companion cats" or "on the knee" cats, usually sold to friends. They are even quite popular.
Re Sibirians; in Russia they become registered as Neva Masquerade.
In Europe they did swallowed their pride, and accept pointed Sibirians...

 

[StefanZ]

Can you get a pointed kitten(s) with two non cp carrying parents? I did not know that. I thought they had to inherit it somewhere down the line first and carry it to pass it on.

nay, its as you though. Parents dont need to be pointed, but they must both be carriers of the recessive pointed gene... And so, both genes from each parent must meet in said kitten individual.

 

[Meowmee]

nay, its as you though. Parents dont need to be pointed, but they must both be carriers of the recessive pointed gene... And so, both genes from each parent must meet in said kitten individual.

Yeah, that’s what I thought. I think I misunderstood what you said. I thought you were saying neither of the parents had a color point gene, lol.

 

[Caspers Human]

But statistics aren't ironclad, it may be the whole litter too (even if less common). Or none (even if less common).

Yes, I understand what percentiles mean. Just because fifteen percent of M&M candies are supposed to be green, it doesn't mean that every package of M&Ms will have fifteen green ones for every hundred. It is quite possible to get a package that has all green ones and it is also possible to get one that has no green ones, at all. Genetics works in a similar way. Put a bunch a genes into a proverbial pot, stir them up then pick at random. The kitten that is born will have certain characteristics based on which genes are actually selected. It's kinda'-sorta' random chance but kinda'-sorta' not. It's based on percentiles. Percentages are the number that you can actually count. Percentiles are, essentially, random chance modified by some mathematical factor.

Aside of your rhetoric question, both variations happened in the world of for example, Russian blue breeders. With the addition, a responsible breeder sooner pts a kitten, not risking it suffering. but yeah, it happened they got rid of pointed rb this way or another.

Glad you got the rhetorical meaning.
Are you talking about breeders who euthanize sickly kittens so that they won't suffer? I'm okay with that if they are actually sick or have birth defects. It's sad but...it happens.

The thing that peeves me off is that people (breeders) might dump or euthanize kittens because they aren't the right color, so to speak. If you're going to be a breeder, you need to understand that some kittens might not be the color (or other characteristic) that you want. Maybe all of them will be but it is also possible that none of them will. You can't just dump kittens because they aren't the color you wanted.

Non-conforming kittens are still good pets. Why not sell them as pets, companions or even therapy animals? Breeders can still say that the kittens, conforming or not, were born of good stock. Why not recover some of the expense of rearing a litter?

If I wanted to buy a kitten from a breeder and I found out that they dumped or euthanized kittens just because they weren't "perfect," I'd nope-out of there in a heartbeat!

BTW: I'm not saying that these kittens were dumped. I'm basically saying, "Wow! Those look like real Siamese! How did they get THERE?" Maybe they are. Maybe not. It could have been a Siamese mother got out and had kittens in the wild. I'd rather see that than to find out that they were dumped. God! I hope not!

 

[Meowmee]

Aside of your rhetoric question, both variations happened in the world of for example, Russian blue breeders. With the addition, a responsible breeder sooner pts a kitten, not risking it suffering. but yeah, it happened they got rid of pointed rb this way or another.

Nowadays the tide has changed and both RB breeders and breeders of Sibirian cat, spare their pointed kittens.
IN RB they are sold as pets "companion cats" or "on the knee" cats, usually sold to friends. They are even quite popular.
Re Sibirians; in Russia they become registered as Neva Masquerade.
In Europe they did swallowed their pride, and accept pointed Sibirians...

I thought Neva masquerade were intentionally bred with Siamese cats to create color pointed Siberians? That is what I have read. I’m on a Siberian forum with a lot of people who have cp neva masquerade. The leader is a breeder of Siberians as well.
So awful they would put to sleep the kittens when they were so wonderful and unique. It’s hard to believe. And there would’ve been plenty of people that would purchase them or adopt them. I have never heard that or read about it anywhere before though.

 

[sal17]

They are ADORABLE! I'd want them both! I love me some color pointed DSHs. The boy - are his legs white? The girl looks like a blue point and the boy maybe a snowshoe type if he has white on him or light legs.

Hey, hey hey! Way-way-wait a minute! Hold the phone! How did not one but TWO Siamese beauties like these end up at a construction site?!

These aren't your ordinary tabby cat! They're a distinct breed! If one or more of their ancestors/parents were outdoor, street cats, how did they stay pure (or mostly pure) Siamese?

Did a pregnant Siamese mother escape and get lost? Did some unscrupulous person dump those kittens there?

Inquiring minds want to know!

If I was you, I'd be revisiting the site where you found those babies, from time to time, looking to see if the mother is still around!

 

[sal17]

I still haven't located mom . But I'm glad the workers made the post on a neighbor fb page i live in Az , its hot out side was iver 100 thw week they found them they wouldnt have lasted long

 

[StefanZ]

I thought Neva masquerade were intentionally bred with Siamese cats to create color pointed Siberians? That is what I have read. I’m on a Siberian forum with a lot of people who have cp neva masquerade. The leader is a breeder of Siberians as well.
So awful they would put to sleep the kittens when they were so wonderful and unique. It’s hard to believe. And there would’ve been plenty of people that would purchase them or adopt them. I have never heard that or read about it anywhere before though.

I dont know the exact details of Neva Masquerade, but I too would guess they were created on purpose, using siamese or balinese in the breeding programme. Yet, once created, there become a backdoor out for the pointed born Sibirians. In Russia the breeders of Sibirians are VERRY
picky sibirians arent allowed to be pointed, and hunt down the pointed gene with fire and sword. Hitherto. Nowadays they have an escape
hatch.

 

[Meowmee]

I dont know the exact details of Neva Masquerade, but I too would guess they were created on purpose, using siamese or balinese in the breeding programme. Yet, once created, there become a backdoor out for the pointed born Sibirians. In Russia the breeders of Sibirians are VERRY
picky sibirians arent allowed to be pointed, and hunt down the pointed gene with fire and sword. Hitherto. Nowadays they have an escape
hatch.

Terrible, the leader of group page has been breeding beautiful Siberians for years, she went to Russia to get her first cats. I should ask her if that’s true or not. I also read that it was Norwegian forest cats, and Maine Coons that won’t allow points not Siberians… anyway here’s a history on Neva masquerade.

Neva Masquerade - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org