Forgot How Tense New Cats Can Be!

[symplestytches]

This is long sorry, I'm a too-many details person..

So one of our cats was put down 3 weeks ago, and in an effort to fill the void we adopted a new cat to keep our household at the 2-cat level. I'd apparently forgotten how stressful it can be introducing cats to each other since it's been 9 years!

Resident kitty (Isis, no relation to the group) is 10.5 years old (guessing, she was adopted as an adult). Female, spayed before we got her. Siamese-manx, very social to humans, was the dominant cat of the two we had. Very vocal, which I've been told it's a Siamese trait.

New kitty (Indy) is approximately 2 years old, male, neutered day before we brought him home, 2 weeks ago. Some sort of short hair mix, about the same weight as the resident cat. A bit flinchy with humans and sudden noises, but calming down more each day. Was a friendly community stray, according to the shelter. Will hiss on occasion at adults when he can't tell who you are or if you move in too quickly. Allows me to pick up and cuddle though as long as super calm and slow. Also very vocal.

Introductions were done slowly, did not meet for first few days, just did scent swaps, and they could hear each other. Met through baby gates for a few days, had some hissing but that was it. Started the no-gate sessions this week, after New cat got a clean bill of health from the vet. Since the resident cat is territorial about food, I can't use meal times for positive associations, so we've been trying treats and cuddle times instead.

Here's the part I'm confused about:

She will growl at him if he gets within a few feet of her, and I can't read him well enough yet to tell if his reactions are playful or aggressive, cuz he just meows back at her and then will act like he's going to jump on her or something, which I've not encountered with my cats in the past, this boy being only my third cat ever. She's always on a higher perch when this happens so I don't know if he's trying to jump on her to attack or not, the meowing throws me off I think.

I guess the question really is, why does he meow at her, I thought cats only meowed at humans, not other cats? He never growls or hisses at her, just meows. Am I going too fast with the introduction and should go back to fenced meetings only? The poor guy it's loving being out of the bathroom space which is where he lives when I'm not around to supervise interactions and the only time things are stressful are when he decides he needs to go see what she's doing, which is only a couple times a day.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Hi. 2 weeks isn't a very long time for introducing cats. Especially when one of those cats is 10.5 years old. The older they are, the longer it typically takes to get them to adapt to a new cat. The rule of thumb about introductions is that you can only go as fast as the slowest adapting cat will allow.

It sounds as if he is curious about her and would possibly like to be 'friends'. His responding to her hissing/growling with meows would seem to mean that he is confused by her behavior and doesn't understand it to be a warning to him to 'tread carefully'.

Can you expand his area to a bedroom while you are away so that he has more space compared to the bathroom?

See if there are any additional tips you might enact as part of the introduction process.

How To Introduce A Kitten To An Older Cat
How To Fix An Unsuccessful Cat Introduction
How To Successfully Introduce Cats: The Ultimate Guide

 

[symplestytches]

yeah, I know it's still super early in the introductions, but I just want to make sure we're doing it as correctly as possible, for the best chance of success =)

Unfortunately our house is such that we can't put up any barriers, the house is too open-plan. I am a stay-at-home mom though, so he's getting more and more "out" time, and we only lock him away now when we're gone for a couple hours a day, at bed time, and if our older cat needs a breather to calm down from him being so interested.

I will definitely read those articles linked, and hopefully will figure out a way to either get him to stop trying to jump/bop the older cat, or get the older cat to accept him as part of the household. We had another cat before we got this newest one, but we got her shortly before the current resident and the introduction period wasn't nearly as stressful it feels. so the current resident kitty has lived with another cat for her entire time with us.

 

[rubysmama]

No fighting though, right? We always say the things to watch out for is a) blood, b)fur flying, or c) one (or both) cats appearing stressed or afraid. If none of those things are happening, things are going ok.

Some growling and hissing is normal, as that is a cat's way of communicating.

You haven't mentioned any physical contact between them, but here's another TCS article that might be helpful, as it has videos and pictures to explain the way to determining aggression versus play. Are My Cats Fighting Or Playing?

 

[symplestytches]

rubysmama - the new cat has managed to get a single paw bop twice now, one the other day, one this morning. This morning he was following her without her realizing and the pounced once she rounded a corner. And then cornered her in one of the bathroom when she was using the litter box, wouldn't let her out of the bathroom so she started hissing, spitting, growling. I managed to distract the new cat enough that she could get out of the bathroom and hide in a bedroom. She's always been all talk, no bite, even with our past cat, who would sometimes stalk her but would also be allowed to groom her.

We are going to move new cat to the third bedroom that my husband has been sleeping in (has a hard time sleeping in the matter with me and baby since she night nurses still) but he's willing to try anything to make this successful with the new cat. Will probably go back to gated meetings or cracked door, until resident cat isn't so tense I think.

 

[rubysmama]

Hmmm... yes, can't hurt to try separating them again, and doing re-introductions.

And then cornered her in one of the bathroom when she was using the litter box, wouldn't let her out of the bathroom so she started hissing, spitting, growling.

This is a bit concerning, as you do not want her to get stressed and start having litter box issues.

How many litter boxes do you have? With 2 cats, the "rule" suggests 1 box per cat, plus 1, so a total of 3 litter boxes.
How Many Litterboxes Should You Have? | TheCatSite

You may not always need that many, but more is better right now, especially after the "cornering" situation.

 

[symplestytches]

We have 3 currently. Will have one in the bedroom for new cat and one in each bathroom. I just don't want either cat getting hurt and I'm afraid the new cat is vying for dominance.

 

[rubysmama]

It does sound like way, possibly.

New kitty (Indy) is approximately 2 years old, male, neutered day before we brought him home, 2 weeks ago.

Just read your first post again, and saw the above. So it's only been a couple weeks since he was neutered? Then, it's possible all the hormones aren't out of his system yet, which could be making him more territorial.

 

[symplestytches]

Yeah it hasn't even been a month since the neuter. Should I wait a few more weeks and keep separated and just let them smell/heat each other?

 

[rubysmama]

It can't hurt, and will hopefully help. Cat introductions usually take a while, and the the longer they're separated, the better the chance of them getting along.

Oh, condolences on the loss of your other cat. If you haven't already, do consider posting a tribute in our Crossing the Bridge forum. RIP sweet kitty.

 

[symplestytches]

Yeah, I feel like my husband wanted to rush things a bit in hopes that they would just get along and obviously that's not going to work.

And thank you. She got to be ours for 9 years before she got a case of pancreatitis that we just couldn't get ahead of, no matter what we did, so had to make the hard decision. I'll take a look at that forum definitely.

 

[rubysmama]

Yeah, I feel like my husband wanted to rush things a bit in hopes that they would just get along and obviously that's not going to work.

It's totally normal to want them to be friends, and to try to rush things. But as @Mamanyt1953 always says "you can ONLY go as fast as the most reluctant cat. If you push, it WILL go backwards."

And thank you. She got to be ours for 9 years before she got a case of pancreatitis that we just couldn't get ahead of, no matter what we did, so had to make the hard decision. I'll take a look at that forum definitely.

There's some wonderful members who follow that forum and post heart-felt replies, so when you're ready, know your post will be read.

 

[symplestytches]

So it's been 11 days since my last post, and the cats are still quite tense. I allowed them to see each other through the gate to see if any progress was made, but no, still at the same point as before. going to give it another 3 weeks before another attempt is made at "face-to-face". the new kitty kind of "lunged" at the resident cat, but ears and tail were upright. he made some meowing that almost turned into the yowling noises that I hear from cats fighting, so I dunno what's going on there. He also tried to lunge at my 1 year old who was just trying to get up from a seated position a few feet from him, so he might be too high strung for my household. I'm going to give him every opportunity to learn that he can trust us and that we won't hurt him, but I also don't want any of my other pets or humans to get hurt either.

 

[SirenSong]

Don't give up hope yet. I have been actively working on introducing and reintroducing my two bengals for about 10 months now ... At the very beginning, the resident cat's anxiety was through the roof. Not even scent swapping was accepted ... At their worst, they had fur-flying, scab leaving, howling, yowling fights ... I ran the full gambit of vet involved medications, calming foods, calming sprays, Feliway diffusers ... you name it, I tried it.

I am now happy to report that this latest reintroduction has been going great. It has taken 10 months, trial and error with various medications, vet visits, behavioural consultations, and now time. I cannot emphasize that enough. We no longer need any medications, but they are both still on a "calming" food. The only thing that has gotten us to this point has been time and patience.

I almost gave up on mine ever getting along but, thanks to the reassurance and advice from the articles and people on the forum, I pushed through and I've seen more progress in the last two weeks than I have seen in months. I have two happy, healthy cats who are constantly learning how to peacefully live with each other.

Hang in there. It's really only been about a month and he's probably only just coming down off of his normal male hormones. He hasn't even really had time to get secure with you or your family and, if he's a bit skittish to begin with, I'm not surprised he's been reactive. His whole world just changed a month ago. He's going to need some more patience and time so he can figure out his new life ...

 

[Erin80]

Hey,
I’m in the boat with you! We got a new cat a week and two days ago and it has been rocky. Just like yours, our new cat has only been neutered for a short time (October 1)...so I don’t know if it’s hormones or what. My 18 month old cat loves other cats and he’d love a playmate since his sister has zero interest in him and hissed if he tries to play. Enter new cat. We got him as a playmate for Binx....however new cat seems to want to dominate Binx (and new cat is under a year old!). Binx will try to play, and new cat will hiss, growl or swat at him. Binx keeps trying though and today they actually almost got into a full on fight which I broke up, and I think really confused Binx as he is just not a fighter.
New cat goes in the bathroom at night. He was in there for a few days at first like yours, then behind baby gates....and then when my two resident cats stopped hissing through the gate at him, we lifted the gate.
They are totally fine if they are all calm....they can be close to each other without issue. Our issues come in when Binx or new cat get hyper and want to play. Binx is playful and new cat reacts defensively. So........I guess we wait? I thought about bringing him back and getting a kitten...but he is wonderful with people and I’m hoping they can work out their issues. He respects my calico cat, probably because she totally ignores him.....if a cat could shrug when they walk by, that’s what she’d be doing.

Keep us posted with how it’s going. It has been a short time for both you and me.....I’m going to try to wait it out and see. Good luck!!

 

[IronHippo]

I was there not too long ago. We did gate intros and everything but overall it took two months for us to feel comfortable with letting our newest third cat roam freely outside of his bedroom. Part of that was because I wanted to be sure that his hormones weren't causing a negative reaction (he was neutered about a week before we brought him home and his pee still smelled pretty strong), and the other part was that our resident boy cat, Radish, was reacting negatively whenever he saw the new guy and got too close. Radish is a pretty dominant cat, whereas our other resident is not, so I guess it was to be expected and we went at Radish's pace.

We did territory swapping in addition to scent swapping--that consisted of one of us getting locked into the new cat's room with Radish while the other one sat with new cat in our bedroom. Radish would explore and then eventually he would go to sleep. About 6 weeks after the new guy came home, Radish started hissing/growling/moaning less around the gate during mealtime, and we took the gate away so that they could play footsie under the closed door. Then on a weekend when both of us could be home, we added letting them interact with the door open (with us supervising--this mostly consisted of Radish circling the room and sniffing everything and moaning occasionally at ʻUlu, who was playing dead). The following weekend, we let the new guy stay outside of his bedroom and they're getting along pretty well ever since.

Your new guy's hormones may have been contributing to the initial introduction (I read it takes up to 6 weeks to subside after neutering), but otherwise it's just patience and time. It's good that you gave your new guy his own safe place--it helps him get comfortable with his new home while also preventing a confrontation between him and your resident girl. I remember being in the thick of it and wondering if it would work out, and we didn't even have as bad a case as SirenSong! So I remember how stressful it can be, and I imagine it must be even more challenging with your baby added to the mix.

My thoughts, having just been there:
- Time, patience, and consistency are key and you really can only move as fast as the least comfortable cat! The new guy was raring to meet our resident two, but Radish was so very uncomfortable. Moving at Radish's pace helped him be more accepting.
- There will be some yowling, growling, and noise, and there may be a swipe, swat, or pummel. That's normal. As long as fur isn't flying and blood isn't being drawn, the growling and swiping are part of what they do to establish themselves. Keep a towel handy to drop between them if it gets too confrontational. If they're actively fighting, you can throw the towel at them to safely break it up, too.
- If your resident is clicker trained, clicking when they don't react or react positively is a good ingrained positive signal. Otherwise give her a coveted treat, same with the new guy if he does anything that isn't negative at all (this can be as simple as walking or looking away--aggressive cats will stare like a creeper, looking away is them deciding to ignore whatever they were staring at, which is good). Positive reinforcement is probably your easiest and best way to reinforce non-reactive responses in aggressive cats.
- Play with both cats in their safe places where the other cat can see. I received some good suggestions for toys if you check my post history. The leather one that was $8 on Amazon is our new favorite.
- My own theory, which I think particularly helped our girl cat when we brought Radish home as a tiny 2-month-old--make sure you let the resident know that she's still loved and "top" cat. For the latest round, my husband noticed that Radish was being more reactive when I was around versus when it was just him or me and him, and thought that Radish was being territorial over me. So I also had to work to reassure Radish, too, while my husband started leading the introductions more.

We don't have kids ourselves, but I would suggest working on getting your new guy comfortable with all members of your household. There's only so much you can teach a one-year-old kid about a cat, but "nice touch" is a start--your new cat also needs to be introduced to the baby (safely but consistently, and supervised).

In all of this, remember to go slowly and patiently! Keep us updated!

 

[symplestytches]

S SirenSong - yes! We have the diffusers and the collars so far. The main issue is that every time the new cat see the resident, he runs straight up into her face and meows and the tries to bop her on the head. And she isn't having any of it. I'm pretty sure he's trying to assert himself as the dominant cat, which is hard on my resident as she was dominant to our late kitty.

She completely ignores him when it's good turn to be locked in the cat room, but if she's in there, the new cat will go to the door and start batting under it, which drives her nuts. I think I'm going to have to get a draft blocker to make him stop doing that.

I really truly want to make this work, he's a fun crazy distraction in our lives, especially with the loss of our first ever kitty the month before we got him, and the fact that one of our other senior pets is in the decline as well (could be years, or months, who knows with rabbits...).

IronHippo - yup, we are only going as quickly as resident will allow silver she is the one hissing and growling. The new not just meows and yowls a tiny bit, but it's becoming clear he's trying to make a play for dominant cat. I don't think I'll be allowing him to have unsupervised interactions with the children until I can fully trust that he knows he's not allowed to bite or smack us, unless all parties know it's wrestling time (resident knows and somehow only wrestles with the adults that initiate).

I figure about 3 weeks of space swapping and eating on either side of the door and we'll try another through the gate visitation and see where we are from there. I'm going to try my hardest to make this work! He's come so far in the short time he's been with us, I know he could be a wonderful house cat given time, patience and teaching of appropriate behavior. I just want to make sure I'm doing it right and not ruining what chances my cats have at a mostly peaceful coexistence.

 

[symplestytches]

Had an episode this morning, completely my bad but might give some insight in whether these two will every co-habitate peacefully?

Did a morning swap to let new boy get his energy out, then went to swap them back so I could get some chores done and know that everyone would be safe. Picked up new boy, carried to the cat room, but the sound of opening the door scared him so he jumped out of my arms just as the door was opening, ran into the room and immediately jumped and attached my resident, getting her hard enough to have Tufts of fur come off my resident. Managed to startle apart to give resident time to retreat, then shut new boy in cat room. When I went in about 15 minutes later to put some clothes away, he tried nipping me again on calves and hands if he could reach them.

Do I just continue with keeping them completely separate for a good while longer? Is this his personality or just his male hormones still in his system?

 

[rubysmama]

Fur flying is one of the things we always say to watch for, so I think, yes, keep them separated a while longer.

 

[IronHippo]

Kitties are so slippery, aren't they! Radish got into ʻUlu's room several times before we were ready to give them unfettered access, too, when I wasn't paying attention.

While this is a negative experience, I think it's still too early to know what it will mean for their long-term relationship. If I'm reading right he was only neutered a little more than a month ago, and it can take up to 6 weeks for hormones to leave the system post-neuter. That's one of the reasons why we kept ʻUlu secluded with only gate introductions for the first 5-6 weeks we had him! You might want to take the introduction back a step to no visuals and lots of scent swapping. Then after a week or sooner if you feel they're ready, try visuals during feeding and so forth.

By the way, when he went after Silver and fur got pulled out, was he making any noise and showing signs of violent aggression? I ask because Radish pulled fur out of ʻUlu just from playing rough. Flying fur is a good indicator of a real fight but not always if other signs don't point that way. Sometimes you've just got a bully big brother who doesn't know how to play nicely with his little brother.

Also, make sure you or your husband plays with him twice a day! Being shut up in a room is rough and doesn't help to socialize the new cat. It must be really rough when he can hear all kinds of life happening beyond the door but can't see what it is. Playing helps to release energy and lets him get to know you!