Food help please

[bbdoll22]

It wasn't a prob feeding them all high quality wet food that was before 5000.00 in vet bills on Dom them got preg twice in 3 1/2 years and had to leave working outside the home.
It's tough but my cats are still my babies and I will do the best I can for them for life.

 

[2cats4me]

It wasn't a prob feeding them all high quality wet food that was before 5000.00 in vet bills on Dom them got preg twice in 3 1/2 years and had to leave working outside the home.
It's tough but my cats are still my babies and I will do the best I can for them for life.

I am sure you will ..

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Not sure if this will help in your discussion with your Vet, or your search for food, but this thread may help you:  http://www.thecatsite.com/t/254489/alternatives-to-expensive-urinary-so-food#post_3346331

 

[bbdoll22]

2 2cats4me
Thank you for your input and encouragement

 

[bbdoll22]

mrsgreenjeens
My human kids are in the war path. I will look into that link ASAP
Thank you so much
It's hard to find the perfect balance for the fur babies.

 

[bonepicker]

You might be right about that - I know that a lot of Fancy Feast flavors list "Fish" as an ingredient even if it's a chicken or turkey flavor - not sure about the Friskies tho since that's not in the rotation at home....

Fancy feast liver &and chicken and chopped grill classics contain no fish.

 

[bonepicker]

Fancy feast liver &and chicken and chopped grill classics contain no fish.

My cats favorites.

 

[bbdoll22]

It seems expensive buuuut....
I was thinking the honest kitchen for 1 meal and some sort if grain free dry that I can add water to for the other 2 meals.

 

[2cats4me]

It seems expensive buuuut....
I was thinking the honest kitchen for 1 meal and some sort if grain free dry that I can add water to for the other 2 meals.

The Honest Kitchen is very expensive ..  Just my opinion but  if you were going to buy that and dry food  you would be better off going all canned food instead . 

If you do decide to do the Honest Kitchen buy a couple of samples first . My cats hated it .. 

 

[bbdoll22]

Talked to vet just now. She wants him on OTC hills or iams. Ugh. That's my opinion tho.
She hasn't heard of the higher end food, canidae, wervua honrst kitchen etc. so couldn't comment. She reiterated no friskies purina or meow mix.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

OK, so help me with this.  He can't be on a prescription food because he's going to start the methigel, right?  SO....she wants him to eat REGULAR Science Diet, or regular Iams, NOT urinary food, correct?   Because with those two brands, the urinary food is PRESCRIPTION.  What am I missing here?????

And, if I'm not mistaken, Iams is sold at the Grocery Store.  (Not the prescription Iams, but the regular ones). Which foods, exactly, does she want you to feed? I mean down to the flavor.   I'm thinking you could do up a spreadsheet of ingredients from the ones she wants you to feed, and then add in some of the ones we suggested, and have her look at them all, but have the names covered up and see which ones she approves.   It should be based on ingredients, NOT THE BRAND. 

 

[bbdoll22]

mrsgreenjeens
Yes no rx diet because of the methigel.
She wants him on low calorie food that rx cannot provide, he's 21 lbs and my other 4 cats are also eating the hills cd rx.
I want him on a wet food IMO it's better than the dry as he won't eat the rx wet. She thinks dry otc is fine as long as its hills, iams etc.
I asked her about canidae, weruva, Dave's ECT. She never heard of any of these foods. Told her I can't afford high quality wet unless I can mix in grocery store foods like friskies Sheba
She was adamant no grocery foods only non rx hills, iams or eukanuba. She couldn't even tell me where to buy it , but her cats eat it.
She never even heard of any food I mentioned except solid gold wet , which is fish based , and she likes that.
I'm not going to feed a crystal cat fish no way.
IMHO some vets may be good at medicine but stink at nutrition.

 

[bbdoll22]

I hope that makes sense. If not ask me.
And thanks for helping.

 

[bbdoll22]

I asked vet about the ingredients and the nutrition analysis and she was quiet and then said only non rx hills and such.
I do know her cats eat regular hills and she couldn't tell me where I could buy it.
Makes me think the hills rep takes care if it

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Most Vets, so I have heard, really don't get much training on nutriton

.    I almost think you need to go with your gut instinct in this case, and can only tell you what I would do if he were MY cat.  However, I can't do that right now because I have to leave right now and go visit my elderly parents.  Won't be back online until tomorrow, but I'll see if I can find someone else from "the team" who is familiar with Methigel to take a look at this thread.

 

[bbdoll22]

mrsgreenjeens
Thank you.
She is a wonderful vet we just don't see eye to eye on food.

 

[Columbine]

It really sounds as if you're stuck between a rock and a hard place here. Nutrition can be a minefield at the best of times, and your vet certainly isn't making things any easier for you. 

This is slightly out of left field, and I know its not what you ideally want, but Royal Canin do a moderate calorie form of their Urinary S/O prescription diet (their equivalent to Hills c/d). It might be worth trying in the short term to help start cutting calories down whilst looking for suitable canned foods. I'm just thinking it might take the pressure off a little and give you space to get the vet onside with some of the options mentioned above.

Another thing worth trying is getting a pate style food and watering it down to more of a sludge. I have a crystals cat who was a resolute gravy licker only. One day I tried him on some watered down low carb pate (I used hot water from the kettle to make it smellier at the same time). He loved it! Using that 'cheat' I've managed to get him eating pate foods almost exclusively! It's definitely worth a try - especially if you have some less fussy guys to finish it if he doesn't go for it.

I think your vet may be a little out of touch with modern supermarket cat food. Things have changed a lot in the past few years, and she may well not be aware of current formulations - particularly given that she feeds the  food her practice sells, and has done for years (by the sound of things). Have you thought of taking her the ingredients and nutritional info of some foods that you can both afford and would be happy feeding? If you present her with the information without  the brand names you might get a different response. It'd be interesting to see how much is pure prejudice on her part.  Yes, it's a bit of a faff, but at least then you'd be able to reach some sort of compromise.

I'm not saying you have  to get your vet's approval on the food brand (like @mrsgreenjeens  I would take on board my vet's advice, but would trust my instincts too) , but it does seem to be important to you to have her ok your eventual food choice.

I've just spent the past half hour or so trawling the internet for  information about Methigel. Nowhere  is anything said about a specific type of food being preferable when combined with the gel. It does seem like you're running into your vet's personal preference rather than actual necessity here. The information regarding low ash, phosphorus and magnesium seems to be standard when dealing with crystals. I really wouldn't get too stressed about the food (though that's much easier said than done).

Hope this makes sense. Good luck! 

 

 

[bbdoll22]

Columbine
First of all thank you.
I have tried the royal canin urinary so, he hated it. The only rx food he will eat is dry hills cd. The vet will give me more cd as needed for the transition.

I am planning on watering down any wet food as extra moisture is great.
What food did you water down?

I did talk to vet how I read about the magnesium, ash and phosphorus is important for crystal cats and that a high protein diet naturally acidifies urine.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Methigel: I've read not to mix it with rx acidifying foods as too much can cause a different crystal. But can be used in conjunction with a regular OTC food.
Methigel is a brand name for DL-Methionine.
The generic can be used as pill form, methigel is a gel added to food.
I asked my vet about the generic pill form and she refused.
My domino is very easy to pill and I don't think he'd like a gel on his food as we go back to wet food after so many years in cd dry.
I feel I am between a rock and hard place.
What does your crystal cat eat??
Thanks again for helping

 

[cheddarwaffles]

3 vets in the last 5 years, and 2 surgical nurses and a nutrition tech have answered as long as I feed canned with meat source protein, and adding as much water as I can, such as 3oz water per 3oz canned fed, the cats can dilute their urine and acidify it enough to decrease struvite crystals. But, to not feed a prescription acidifying diet or higher sodium diet, which most urinary diets are, longer term unless prepared to monitor their labwork regularly, especially blood pH, urine pH, and electrolytes. The higher sodium increases thirst so they keep their urine diluted.

This is all very different advice from that I received over 10 years ago. Ash content was still brought up back then. Mineralization and higher deposits of calcium or phosphorus/magnesium are not gauged by the amount of "ash content." As so many things have changed in the "do's and don'ts" vets recommend, higher protein, less carbohydrate, more water, and canned/soft/meat based diets are recommended by all my vets more recent years. I hope my European vets are as current on diet recommendations.

@BBDOLL22 The canned or moist diets you have already considered sound like good options, especially if you can add a little more water to them to "fool" your kitties into drinking/eating with food. I always use larger 10-13oz cans or bags/chubs of raw/dehydrated/freeze dried, and just store the open can or prepared food to feed at the next meal time to distribute amongst all the cats.

The 12-13oz cans of Wellness, Canidae, Evo, b.f.f. by Weruva, Innova, and a few others run me $1.70 to $2.00, which wound up being much less than Fancy Feast. I still like to periodically get them the flaked Chicken or Classic Shrimp, Sole, and Cod by FF, as these are favorites of my older cats. These are more a special treat than standard twice daily meals like the other food though. Much more economical for bigger cans and bags/chubs of food! My pet store sends updates regarding voluntary or toxicity/deficiency recalls regularly, letting me know if my lot number falls within the recall. I have to start over finding resources over here now. Very different. Online order shipments are at the top of my list!

 

[Columbine]

I'm not sure how much my food choices will help you as I'm in the UK. I started Shadow on Nature's Menu pouches (a uk premium brand - just has meat, broth and vits/mins to balance). He now eats a combination of Catz Finefoods, Nature's Menu, Thrive Complete and occasionally Almo Nature (a supplementary food that he loves). He does still get a little Royal Canin rx kibble too, but is on about 80% wet. I would also say that when Shadow blocked 10 years ago I didn't have the nutritional knowledge I do now (and the I thought that he was too fussy to change). Up until this May, he had Whiskas pouches, Sheba pouches and Gourmet pouches (all in gravy too) alongside a little rx kibble. He's never relocked or shown signs of being close to it. That's just my experience.

You're absolutely right about not mixing methigel and rx food - when I said there were no specific food requirements I was referring to OTC foods only. Sorry if I was unclear. Over acidifying the urine can create calcium oxolate (sp?) crystals, so that is definitely something to be aware of.

I notice you've been on catinfo.org. It has some very useful information (I've referred to it many times myself), but a lot of the nutritional information is just one viewpoint - just as your own vet's viewpoint is another. All I'm saying is, don't take it all as gospel. Yes, cats are most definitely obligate carnivores and do best on a high meat diet, but my understanding (and that is all it is - I am NOT a vet/nutritionist) is that opinions are divided when it comes to feeding a low ash, magnesium and phosphorus diet - its very necessary for CKD cats, but not as essential for FLUTD. The primary issue there in hydration.

It looked to me like Methigel make a tablet too. The reason your vet may favour the gel form is that I would imagine its much easier to tweak the dose if needed. Its important to give the gel with food, but that doesn't have to mean mixed in. I can't see any reason why you could't dose him with the gel after a meal (or immediately prior to eating). Whenever I've had to give a gel or paste to my animals I've always squirted it onto the back of the tongue. It's no harder than piling, and I'm sure your vet could demonstrate the technique if you're unsure.