Flea & Tick treatments for kittens?

tandl

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I have always received great advice from this forum, so here I go again!

We are hoping to catch a mama and her two kittens over the next couple of nights. This will be my first time catching kittens straight from the outside. I was able to get some Frontline Plus on mama a couple of weeks ago, but I know that isn't for kittens. The instructions specify 8 weeks or older, and at least 1.5 lbs. I don't know the exact age of the kittens; I'm guessing this is their 8th week, because she first started bringing them around 2 weeks ago. In my limited experience, the feral moms often had their babies away from the main thorough-fare where our very small colony eats/lounges, but then starts to bring them around as they hit 5-6 weeks.

But I do not know the exact age -- this is a cat that we had been trying to catch, and I was worried that pregnancy was going to happen soon, but I had NO idea she had been pregnant much less given birth. This is a cat who would come at least a few times a week, so I'm still surprised at my cluelessness. But one day she showed up with 2 kittens in tow, and they have spent increasingly long amounts of time on our decks.

I admit I'm squeamish about fleas and ticks, and really don't want an infested house as we have 9 house-cats of our own. The room/space I will keep mama and the kittens in is carpeted. There is a small bathroom attached that I will likely put them in for the first day or two, just because the outer room is large, and I worry w/too much space (and some hiding spots that are very tricky to block) all 3 will hide quickly. Mama cat is very comfortable with me at this point, but that's when she's on her own turf. I'm assuming that will change when it's my turf!

So, is the Frontline a definite no-go as I can't be sure the kittens are over 8 weeks or is there a small amount of wiggle room? I obviously don't know their weights either, but would be surprised if they weren't over that 1.5 lb directive.

I've read and watched videos about giving kittens flea baths using gentle non-scented/colored dish or baby soap. I don't believe that would work very well w/8 week old feral kittens though? I can't imagine them letting me scruff them long enough to put them through that, when at the moment they'll only tolerate a couple of pets from me before getting scared.

Are there any other options for fleas/ticks to hopefully help prevent our upstairs area from getting infested?

I'm going to try to get mama to the clinic to get spayed as soon as possible, hopefully early next week, as part of me is worried she's already pregnant again. Her stomach looks suspiciously larger to me. And I worry about her health, too -- she's so skinny (other than a chunkier belly) despite me giving food (and her eating it) many times a day -- easily 5-8 cans/pouches at least. She has bite marks/itchy looking skin around her ears that I hope is 'just' from the fleas/bugs vs anything worse. She also has terrible gas. I tried to get her to eat a Drontal pill; first hidden in tuna, then in a pill pocket, and she was way to smart from jump and turned up her nose at all of it. So I know she will need deworming.

Now that I've droned on too long, I was trying to attach a few pics in case anyone is good at estimating age by sight. Says my files are too large so I'll do some investigating to see if I can get the sizes down. And I'll be crossing my fingers that there is another flea/tick option other than trying to bathe these little babes!


Thank you!
 
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tandl

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Ok looks like I can add pics now. Please excuse the cardboard box on the deck-the kittens were having fun playing with little balls, but they roll off the deck easily so I made a quick ball pit.

The pic of Mama is to show a bit of the sore/bitten area around one of her ears. Likely bug bites or irritated area from scratching? Or a more sinister skin issue? I know it’s not a great example but I wanted to get something.

thanks!
 

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Furballsmom

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You might have missed it as you were typing, I posted a site article just above :)
 
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tandl

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You might have missed it as you were typing, I posted a site article just above :)
You are right-typed without checking again! Thank you-I’m pulling it up to read now.
 
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tandl

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Definitely a good article. I would never have thought of using Vaseline to prevent the fleas from migrating up and really overtaking the kittens heads!
I watched a couple of videos, including one by the Kitten Lady, and in each the kittens were fairly cooperative, if vocally unhappy. I suppose I don’t have a lot of faith in my abilities to subdue these little guys one-handedly.
I can’t imagine they are going to appreciate being handled, much less handled and washed for several minutes. Has anyone ever been pleasantly surprised by the flea-bathing of ferals being easier than anticipated?
 
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tandl

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Well the good news is that I was able to catch Mama and both kittens & they are safely indoors in kitten heaven—so many toys and tunnels and cat trees! But efforts to give them flea baths have been a disaster. They squirmed and clawed before I even got to try to suds them, more than once. Try as I might I could not get them to settle long enough to have any type of wiping/soap application etc.

So I’m back to wondering if the frontline plus is appropriate or not. This week would have to be their 8th, if not 9th. Haven’t been able to weigh them effectively, they speed off of the scale despite my hand-shielding efforts.
 

Sarthur2

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Do not use Frontline Plus on the kittens. Use Advantage II for Kittens. The tubes are the exact amount the kittens need until they get much bigger.

Mom needs deworming and treating for parasites (Drontal, Panacur). She also needs her ears cleaned for mites. The area around her ear is probably from scratching fleas. She may need a cortisone shot to stop the itching, and an antibiotic injection to heal any scratch wounds, but will likely get one when she is spayed.

Mom should put on weight once she is clear of fleas, worms, and parasites and is spayed. Her smelly gas should abate then too.

Thanks for rescuing mom and kittens! They are lucky to have you in their lives!

T tandl
 
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tandl

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First off, thank you very much for pointing me towards the Advantage II. I got some the following day and think I did a decent application job on two very wiggly non-compliant kittens! Non-cat life has kept me busy the past couple of days so I haven’t had much time to post, so apologies for taking a while to express my thanks.

Kittens are doing well-still nursing a lot but they’ll eat some kitten food at times too. Tons of energy, happy to play with me and get petted when they are sleepy, but not into

Mama cat worries me because she continues to have diarrhea. The diarrhea has me changing out the full litterbox multiple times a day, because scooping never gets it all, and the stench is unreal. I can tell when she has gone even if I’m 2 floors below where the cats are—it’s going thru the vents that steadily! I bought 8 boxes of litter yesterday and I hope that will take me through the weekend.

I had spent a small fortune buying the 50 count bottle of Drontal on Chewy as I didn’t have a prescription. But I had no success getting Mama to take one. I hid them in all manner of foods, treats, wraps, tried to quickly pill her w/ a pill popper but she was quicker than I was so that was a bust. Could not get that med down her & was despairing.

Our cat sitter directed me to Revolution Plus, which I had never heard about, but it sounded promising as it was topical but also treats worms in addition to fleas/ticks.
Of course it’s also prescription, but I learned that one of the animal shelters sells it, so I went down and bought some.
I put a dose on Mama on Wednesday afternoon. Thus far there has not been much of a change re: her diarrhea. It’s definitely her vs the kittens.

If the diarrhea is a result of worms, should I be seeing changes 2 days past applying the Revolution Plus? The directions online report that the medicine starts quickly but effects can take a few days, but I’m interested in what others may have experienced with this?
I realize there can be many reasons why Mama is having diarrhea other than or in addition to the worms, but I’m hopeful it is a result of worms and therefore potentially able to be treated by me. Getting her in to see my vet wouldn’t be possible until next week at the earliest. Even if I tried to move her spay appt up to next week, I’m assuming they wouldn’t/shouldn’t operate if she’s having unresolved diarrhea?

I have been trying to add some pumpkin to her food; without much success. She is picky! I have been adding some cat probiotic powder. Her appetite is good, she’s drinking well, and being a typical mama cat. She’s still nursing, and she’ll groom and play with her kittens. Of course she also naps a lot and watches her kittens play from her perch on the windowsill.
 

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I think a round of metronidazole should help to cure mom’s diarrhea. It treats parasites and intestinal bacterial infection. She may have both from being a stray. Maybe the vet can give it to you as a liquid since she is hard to pill. It’s usually 7-10 days.

Keep us posted!
 
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tandl

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I think a round of metronidazole should help to cure mom’s diarrhea. It treats parasites and intestinal bacterial infection. She may have both from being a stray. Maybe the vet can give it to you as a liquid since she is hard to pill. It’s usually 7-10 days.

Keep us posted!
It looks like at one point this was available online without a prescription, but all I could find now is the same med but for fish.

Unfortunately our housecat’s vet isn’t going to approve anything as this feral mama isn’t under their care. And I’m not opposed to taking her for an exam (although I admit the stress of getting her back into a carrier makes me envision her spraying the carrier & my car out of stress…) but they can’t see her until the end of the week, and even that isn’t certain.
Yes, there is the emergency animal hospital. I don’t think I need to explain why I really hope to avoid that trip, but if things start to get worse I know that may be a decision I need to make.

I will be hopeful that the vet can see her this week, visions of a diarrhea event in my car notwithstanding!
I have leftover Tylosin from when one of our housecats had diarrhea. I’m not a fan of admistering that without even a verbal ‘it couldn’t hurt’ by some vet professional.

Everything is the same around here. She’s eating, drinking, engaged, nursing, but has not had a single formed or even semi formed poop all week. I’ve added pumpkin and probiotics to her food.

In ‘when it rains it pours’ fashion, this mama cat’s mama showed up with 5(!!!)kittens on our deck yesterday morning. This female has been our frustration for a couple of years now bc we have caught all of her siblings & any progeny they had before we could catch them. We’ve obviously now caught her daughter. But she is by far the most feral, the least routine, and the most indifferent to all of our trapping efforts. I found her sleeping on top of traps more than once.

It’s not often I would say this, but I think this qualifies as too many cats! Feeling a bit defeated, but I just do what I can as I can.
 

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How old are her mom’s kittens? Are you feeding them?

I know that defeated feeling. Hang in there!
 
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tandl

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I hate to say it, but thinking about this --and I truly am not laughing at you, but my goodness what a cat :lol2: 💖
I'm a firm believer that sometimes there is no other way to handle some of the trials with these cats than to laugh about it! I'm truly always amazed at how smart they are in ways that I wish they weren't...like realizing what a trap is without even testing it.

I know I have a photo somewhere of that particular cat sitting on the loaded trap, but it must be on a different drive as I couldn't find it.

I did find a picture of one of her daughters sleeping next to it. Now, it's not quite as impactful as the trap wasn't set up at this point, but still funny. I also have a pic of one of the neighborhood tomcats, who never even thought about investigating the trap, set or not. Unfortunately I think he has passed on to the Heaviside Layer, as he was older, and had been going through a period of intense fighting with another tom.

One of my favorite trapping memories is seeing that something was in the trap, rushing over to the deck door to get a better look, and seeing the cat that we had been trying to trap sleeping very peacefully on the back of one of the deck couches; about 10 feet from the trap. There was indeed something in the trap...a very unhappy raccoon. And as it thrashed about waiting for release, the intended cat slept without a care in the world. The audacity! 😹
 

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tandl

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How old are her mom’s kittens? Are you feeding them?

I know that defeated feeling. Hang in there!
I wanted to give a quick update on all of the mama and kitten drama!

"Sister" cat (the mama) continued to have horrid diarrhea all last week. I did get an appt. with our vet and took her on Friday. $700 later...she's still having diarrhea. But we are hopefully somewhere further down the decision tree.

At the vet she did have a temperature. Her bloodwork was all fairly normal. Her FIV & FeLV tests came back negative. I did take in a fecal sample so they've sent that out for analysis. No pain/tenderness in abdomen, no obvious mastitis. No sign of continued fleas. I told the vet that I had given her Revolution Plus.

The vet went through some possible causes, ranging from stress & diet change to continued parasites and infection.
My gut (pun intended) feeling is that this is not from stress & diet change. She ate many of the same foods when we were feeding them on our deck. And while I'm sure there is a great degree of stress being in here, she certainly is comfortable enough to give and receive affection, she'll play, she doesn't hide at all when I'm up with her, etc.

The vet did give her a dose of Profender to ensure all intestinal bugs are banished. She also gave a dose of an antibiotic. When I got home and reviewed the paperwork, I saw that it was Convenia, not the antibiotic that was mentioned here. I did a quick google of Convenia and of course got concerned as a lot of negative experiences popped up. The vet did say that she wanted an antibiotic that was safe for nursing mothers, as if we could avoid forced weaning that would be ideal.
The vet also gave an NSAID shot.
They also gave some subq fluids as she was dehydrated.

The vet also took samples of some of the skin patches that I saw that had been red/irritated as I wanted to definitively rule out ringworm. We will get the quick results today or tomorrow, but the other results will take a couple of weeks.

The vet sent us home with Proviable. A tube of paste to be given 2-3 times a day, and a capsule to be sprinkled in her food 1x/day.

I was so hopeful that by today I'd see some improvement, but just a short while ago she used the litter box and it was same old same old. The consistency and frequency has not changed at all. I will be calling the vet again tomorrow if something hasn't changed overnight. So frustrated and worried! And wondering what the heck it could be! And very tired of having to launder multiple extra large puppy pads every day, because every day she does a butt scoot or gets some on her paws and tracks it out, so I have most of the area underneath about 10 puppy pads.

Her two kittens continue to be great; no signs of diarrhea or fleas. I have spay/neuter/vax appointments for them on the 6th, so we do have a bit more time to get mama better hopefully.

The 'surprise' kittens stayed through Saturday. We always put out food at regular times for our small group of resident ferals, the ones we've TNR and the few that we haven't. Once the kittens showed up, I was putting more food out at shorter intervals so that both the kittens and mama could get some good nourishment. And, as much as I had no idea how to solve this problem since our 'feral' space is already full, I wanted the litter to stick around so that when the space opens up, or if I come up with a better idea in the meantime, they'll be close and safe. I also started getting them semi-used to me by trying to interact & play with them a bit.

Yesterday morning however, I woke up to find mama had moved them. Mama still shows up regularly, so they aren't far, and I'm guessing that it might not be too long before they show up again. At least I hope so. I tried to track where mama goes when she leaves here, but she disappears between 2 of my neighbors houses and there are many options beyond there that I can't see.

Any more thoughts or things I should ask/bring up to the vet would be appreciated! It really stumps me that even 3 days after receiving more dewormer and an antibiotic that we are still here without any change.
 
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tandl

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I'm really hoping something definitive shows up in that fecal sample :vibes::crossfingers::heartshape:
I was too! But, nope. Nothing. And the diarrhea continues! I spoke to the vet last Thursday, and she said that next I should try a prescription diet. So I went and spent money getting the Hills gastro-biome. Of course she won't touch the wet version, and only picks at the dry a small bit.

The vet said that she doesn't want to try any additional antibiotics while mama is still nursing. She also wonders if this isn't a matter of just needing to wait it out, as long as she doesn't decline systemically in other ways. I tried to remind the vet that this is a feral who I am TNR'ing and just hanging out in my top floor indefinitely isn't really a great or possible long-term option.

Mama's appetite has declined this weekend. She went from being ravenously hungry to being quite picky. She will eat boiled chicken so I have been giving her chicken (and I've tried to mix it with some rice to give it some bulk) often. She seems hungry and eats all of the chicken each time, but has been ignoring the other foods I've been leaving out for her/the kittens. This is food that she used to eat, so it is a change that now she's eschewing it.

I know this diet isn't at all recommended long term, but that it's also a potential recommendation for when cats have tummy upsets, so I'm going with it for now.

She continues to nurse. The vet said I would need to rapid wean the kittens in order to try another antibiotic. I've never done that, so will need to do some research. The kittens barely eat any kitten food -- this seems to be a trend in my house. We had a litter w/mama last fall that nursed all the way until I got them adopted out at 14 weeks -- and they were nursing up til the last day! They did eat some kitten food, but not nearly enough to make up the bulk of their diet. The mama cats and kittens we've had apparently haven't read the books that say mama cats can start weaning between 6-8 weeks.

Here's my main question for tonight: Their spay/neuter appointments are tomorrow. I am not going to take Mama. The vet didn't say absolutely not, but she did recommend waiting, and I would truly worry about performing surgery on a cat who is at best dehydrated & underweight, and at worst still battling some type of infection.

But should I go ahead and take the two kittens? Would taking them away for 12 hours (it's an animal shelter, so I drop off at 7 am and pick up at 7 pm) be a bad thing for mama who is needing to nurse them?

I'm leaning towards still taking the kittens, and then continuing with my original plan of getting them adopted out as soon as I can post-surgery. Even if mama is still here, at the very least this will force the weaning, and then if we need the next antibiotic attempt, we are in the clear to try that.

But I'd love feedback. Go ahead with surgery as scheduled for kittens? Or hold off until mama is weaning them more? Or until I can take all 3 at once? Scheduling can be tricky as often they are booked several weeks out.

Poor mama. I know she is sick of being stuck inside. She often lays down by the door and meows at me when I am up with her -- hey lady I want out! This weekend I was contemplating letting her explore the house, but of course that would mean she'd come into contact with our house cats. She is FIV, FeLV, gastro worms and ringworm free, flea and ear mite free, but she has not been vaccinated. Our housecats are all up to date on their shots. I am not worried about fighting/biting; most of our housecats have had interactions through the screen doors with all of the ferals so they are not totally alarmed by new cats. However I'm sure there are many reasons NOT to allow mama to have some more freedom that I am not thinking of at the moment...
 

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This is a hard one. I guess, in order to try and throw some weight one way, because it will be challenging to reschedule the kittens surgeries, maybe go ahead with them .. ..
 

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Take all 3 and get mom started on metronidazole. She needs treating so she can get well. She’ll still be able to nurse for awhile. Antibiotics do not hurt the kittens. They only get a tiny bit in her milk. Feed her what she’ll eat. Will she eat kitten chow in addition to the chicken and rice? Kitten chow is chock full of nutrients.

Once she’s recuperated from her spay, let her check out the house. If your cats are up to date on their vaccines, all should be well. Mom may become adoptable after her spay. Keep her with her kittens for a few more weeks if you can.

T tandl
 
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