First Post - Nonagressive Biting In Kitten With A Young Baby

Chipmunk

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Nov 15, 2017
Messages
7
Purraise
7
Hi there. Since this is my first post, I will describe our household a bit. We have a 7 year old Siamese mix named Kenshin, a 5 month old baby girl, and in a hormonally fueled decision, adopted a kitten named Bubblegum (also a siamese mix) when my daughter was about 6 weeks old. It has been a kind of nightmare. I feel like some days she is more work than my baby. I stay at home and I am exhausted. When I adopted Kenshin, I don't remember him being so demanding.

When I nurse the baby, she climbs on top of her and tries to get in between us or lays on her and licks her all over or tries to suckle on her ear. She also is biting all the time. It is not in an aggressive way, but she will not stop. She cannot be pet without biting. If she is licking, she bites and sometimes won't let go. If it was just me, I would ignore it, but it is mainly my daughter. It's not hard and doesn't inherently hurt, but if my daughter moves her hands or legs, it has ripped her skin and made her scream and cry and has made her bleed on occasion. Bubblegum is very gentle with the baby even when my baby excitedly grabs at her fur or ears (I'm trying to teach them both to be gentle). The other day, I found my daughter holding onto her tail like corn on the cob and sucking on it, and Bubblegum was just trying to push her away with one paw.

She is also always doing the few things we don't want her to. She climbs behind the tv and jumps down behind it and climbs under the dresser it's on, behind the computer, and on the kitchen counter and knocks things off. She also steals any food she can get away with and blatantly tries to grab off of our plates. She and Kenshin do share 2 food bowls and there is usually food left over so I know she's not starving. She is also incredibly persistent. It doesn't matter how many times I correct or redirect her behavior, she goes right back to it.

She has a cat tree and there's a seat in the kitchen window for them that they enjoy. And she doesn't do this obnoxious behavior nearly so frequently if the baby isn't with me. It's like she is competing for attention.

Also, one of the cats (we haven't been able to figure out who) keeps peeing on things. One of them actually snuck into a back bedroom, climbed into a box of baby clothes I was saving. It was sitting on the bed and they got inside, pushed away the top layer and peed on the bottom layer of clothes. We had to start shutting them out of our bedroom because Bubblegum kept climbing the baby's bed and Kenshin is taking it hard, so I suspect it's him. They are both fixed.

I know this is super long, but I would greatly appreciate any help. I feel like I'm losing it. Thank you!

Jess
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #2

Chipmunk

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Nov 15, 2017
Messages
7
Purraise
7
Also, every time I scoop the litterbox, she jumps in and goes while I'm scooping. I've never seen a cat do that before and it's weird.

I really do love her, but I feel like all I'm doing is getting her in trouble. I looked into clicker training/positive reinforcement but I'm not sure I have the time to be consistent with it.

Every time she wakes up my baby or stops her feeding because she climbs on top of her or won't quit licking her or biting her or suckling on her makes me so frustrated.

It's not feasible to go in a separate room for all feedings and a lot of this behavior happens when she is playing on the floor also.
 

Mamanyt1953

Rules my home with an iron paw
Staff Member
Forum Helper
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
31,182
Purraise
67,774
Location
North Carolina
Well, first off, I'm thinking that when you adopted Kenshin, you probably weren't also dealing with an infant. Even if he was getting into everything in the house, you had more reserves to deal with it. AND...every cat, like every person, is different! They have their own personalities and quirks, so no two will be the same. And aren't you (really) glad of that?

How old is Bubblegum? That will tell us quite a bit about what is going on, and may even change what is recommended to alter the behavior. I'm going to give you a few
links to articles that may help with the "love bites" and dealing with what seems to be a bit of jealousy.

The litter box thing? Hekitty has done that on occasion, although she generally waits until just after I'm done. It's a "cat thang."

Cats And Babies: All Your Questions Answered!
How To Deal With Cat "love Bites"?
Do Cats Get Jealous? (and What To Do About It When They Do)
How To Set Healthy Boundaries For Your Cat
The Dos And Don'ts Of Cat Behavior Modification

It looks like a LOT of reading, but the articles are fairly short, to the point, and very easily understood.

Good luck with this, and TRY TO GET SOME REST!
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #4

Chipmunk

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Nov 15, 2017
Messages
7
Purraise
7
How old is Bubblegum? That will tell us quite a bit about what is going on, and may even change what is recommended to alter the behavior. I'm going to give you a few
links to articles that may help with the "love bites" and dealing with what seems to be a bit of jealousy.
You're right, I should have mentioned that. She was 9 weeks old when we adopted her and is about 6 months old now. I will give those articles a read. You are right, I had more time to devote to Kenshin who was very mischevious also. He used to "love bite" occasionally but nothing on the scale that Bubblegum does. And on the litterbox thing, Kenshin used to follow me and carefully watch me the entire time I scooped and then would jump in after. Bubblegum doesn't even try to get my attention, she just jumps in and goes. She doesnt even care if i continue to scoop while she goes. I usually just stand up and walk away. I've had cats most of my life and she is the most puzzling. She is sweet though.

I forgot to mention that she doesn't do these behaviors when my partner is caring for the baby and is usually content to sit nearby.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5

Chipmunk

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Nov 15, 2017
Messages
7
Purraise
7
Oh and more than just love bites to the hands, she especially loves to nibble on my daughter's fingers and toes and does not like to let go. I'm honestly worried that she could cause serious harm if my daughter flails.

I would like to clarify that I never leave them alone and always supervise them. My daughter loves having Bubblegum around and gets excited every time she sees her. She wishes she got the same attention from Kenshin but he just ignores her unless she cries too loud and then he retreats to "their room."
 

Mamanyt1953

Rules my home with an iron paw
Staff Member
Forum Helper
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
31,182
Purraise
67,774
Location
North Carolina
This may be way out in left field, but...as young as both the kitten and your baby are, I wonder if it is possible that Bubblegum sees you quite literally as her mama, and the baby as another kitten in her litter. She is treating her a bit that way...
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7

Chipmunk

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Nov 15, 2017
Messages
7
Purraise
7
This may be way out in left field, but...as young as both the kitten and your baby are, I wonder if it is possible that Bubblegum sees you quite literally as her mama, and the baby as another kitten in her litter. She is treating her a bit that way...
I had the same thought, but it seemed too strange. All the advice I've found about cats and babies assumes the cat was in the home first. I'm just not sure what I should be doing.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8

Chipmunk

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Nov 15, 2017
Messages
7
Purraise
7
I greatly appreciate your advice and input. Thank you.
 

Mamanyt1953

Rules my home with an iron paw
Staff Member
Forum Helper
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
31,182
Purraise
67,774
Location
North Carolina
Know what? I'm going to see if I can round up a few folks with more experience that I to chime in here!

It does seem very strange, but...it fits what is happening. If you watch a bunch of kittens and their mama, they behave very much as Bubblegum is doing, and as my dad used to say, "Who knows from cats?"
 

danteshuman

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Mar 27, 2017
Messages
5,030
Purraise
6,077
Location
California
I swear they should rename the Siamese breed 'The problem children!" I don't have a clue about the biting. I would guess the peeing is stress related. So if you can find out which cat is stressed it will help. I'm guessing it is your older cat since she now has a baby & kitten to deal with. Lots of cat shelves for when your baby starts walking & some feliway might help. Also your older cat might appreciate a night without the kitten.
About the food swiping & litter box play time ... why not lock your little devil in a spare bedroom while you do those activities? Or do what I would do and be really mean and squirt your kitten with a squirt bottle every time they misbehave at the table. I would suggest a penny can but that would wake your baby.
Don't feel to bad. My part siamese punk thought his name meant !NO! when he was young ;)
 

di and bob

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
16,582
Purraise
22,961
Location
Nebraska, USA
A 5 month old baby should not be left to interact at all with family pets. It would take just one moment for a tragedy to happen, your daughter's safety should be above all else. A baby cannot be taught not to hurt the kitties. They have no idea they are hurting, and can go too far. You should be present at all interactions, and if you can't, the cats should be in a separate room, or known to be sleeping. Cats can curl up on a babies face and the baby is not strong enough to get them off. You could get a large kennel or carrier to confine the kitten when you are feeding or the baby is on the floor. The cats can be taught to stay away from the baby, NO loudly will get the point across. Bubblegum was separated too young from her family and did not learn the limits and manners she needed about biting. EVERY TIME when she bites you, you will have to say no loudly, or even hiss. If she persists, take her loose fur on the back of her neck and hold her still while hissing, this is what mama cats do to teach manners. At six months she is still very much a kitten and is really just doing what kittens do. Get a kickeroo, a long catnip filled toy that cats absolutely love, and throw it towards her when she becomes too aggressive, it really helps to get rid of excess energy. You are really raising two babies, all the luck!
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #12

Chipmunk

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Nov 15, 2017
Messages
7
Purraise
7
A 5 month old baby should not be left to interact at all with family pets. It would take just one moment for a tragedy to happen, your daughter's safety should be above all else. A baby cannot be taught not to hurt the kitties. They have no idea they are hurting, and can go too far. You should be present at all interactions, and if you can't, the cats should be in a separate room, or known to be sleeping. Cats can curl up on a babies face and the baby is not strong enough to get them off. You could get a large kennel or carrier to confine the kitten when you are feeding or the baby is on the floor. The cats can be taught to stay away from the baby, NO loudly will get the point across. Bubblegum was separated too young from her family and did not learn the limits and manners she needed about biting. EVERY TIME when she bites you, you will have to say no loudly, or even hiss. If she persists, take her loose fur on the back of her neck and hold her still while hissing, this is what mama cats do to teach manners. At six months she is still very much a kitten and is really just doing what kittens do. Get a kickeroo, a long catnip filled toy that cats absolutely love, and throw it towards her when she becomes too aggressive, it really helps to get rid of excess energy. You are really raising two babies, all the luck!
Thank you for your thoughts - you are correct that they cannot be left alone. I've been looking for a playard type thing that Bubblegum wouldn't be able to climb or jump over. My daughter is on the verge of crawling and is enough trouble without having to watch for the cats at all times also. I really try not to shut them in other rooms because since we have the baby, I feel like they don't get as much attention already, especially since we don't let them in the room at night.

We do have a Kickeroo for her already and she will play with it for a minute but it doesn't keep her attention (what does!?) but I will try it more often when she is more playful. She has not responded to no, so I will try your other recommendation.

On another note, it is definitely Kenshin who has been peeing on things. We caught him climbing into a cart where we keep her cloth diapers and squatting down but we were able to stop him.
 

PushPurrCatPaws

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
May 22, 2015
Messages
10,061
Purraise
10,250
Boy, you certainly have your hands full!
Here's to sending good, calming vibes your way :vibes: :vibes:
hoping that things will improve in time!

I thought I'd share a few of my thoughts, though I don't know if they will help you out. There are several aspects to what you are going through and I might only address a few of them.

It's definitely true that you got your kitten when she was quite young and she didn't have the chance to learn some non-biting parameters (manners) from her cat mom and siblings. Mamanyt1953 shared great links for reading up on biting behaviors and what to do. I know you have little time and are worn out, but consistency is key when you are trying to train a kitten to not bite human hands and feet (or any human body part!). I've found that redirecting the kitten to toys and play really helps, along with a Daily Play Routine spent with just the kitten, playing with things like DaBird toys and rolling jingle balls into other rooms so that the kitten can spend a lot of energy running after things, and leaping and hunting. You don't want the kitten to treat your human baby like a fellow littermate to play with... as you say, your baby has at times gotten injured from the kitten's claws and teeth and I personally think that you don't want the young baby associating pain and fear with the kitten or even with just cuddling or nursing times that are really meant as time for you and your baby alone. In other words, I would try to keep the kitten separated from you two while you are nursing, at the least.

I did want to ask, how many litter boxes do you have for the kitten and Kenshin combined? Do they share litter box(es) or is Kenshin able to have his own box to use? He's probably feeling stressed and overwhelmed too, like he doesn't have a space of his own -- I wonder if there is a way to have him have his own dedicated litter box that the kitten won't also use? It's possible his keen sense of smell is also feeling a sense of "territory invasion" from smelling the new baby's clothes/diapers/pee. He is definitely trying to work out some territory issues by peeing on the baby's things.

If Bubblegum is climbing on (in?) the baby's bed or crib, you definitely, in my opinion, do not want that to happen, esp. if the baby is in the crib. I'd recommend using a baby canopy 'crib cover' or tent, to keep the kitten out. Or just shut the bedroom the majority of the time to keep the cats out. I know you said you feel badly keeping the kitten out of rooms in your house when you have to do certain things like nurse your baby, as you are worried about both of your cats not getting enough attention as a result. But if you can develop a daily routine, a habit pattern that both of the cats can come to recognize and expect, they will feel less stress than if they were in a daily environment of having no schedule to expect. Try setting up some of the same patterns every day (as much as you are able), so the kitten and cat know when meals are, when play times are, when cuddle times are, on a regular basis. If everything is chaotic on a daily basis, the cats will react to that by acting out. No one can ever have a 100% routinized life, but if you can make several things very regular on a daily basis for the cats, it will ease both your stress and the cats' stress over the long-term.

You mentioned that the kitten does not act out quite as much when your partner is with your baby. I might ask, how much is your partner sharing in the "kitten care-taking duties" with you? Are you the only one that does most of the feeding of the cats, playing with the cats, and taking care of the litter box cleaning? It sounds like you are at home more at this time, so it is understandable. But sometimes if the humans share those duties more equably --at least until the kitten can go through more of its social growth phases the first year or two-- it can take less pressure off the "main human", and the kitten comes to learn that both humans (when they are both around) can be relied upon for food, love, play and etc. It can help the kitten not be as aggressive or bitey towards just one human. It puts a lot of pressure on the one human if he/she is the main one doing all of the cat care-taking, you know?
I wrote a little bit about this a few months ago, in another thread-
Kitten Viciously Attacks Me...

:goodluck:
 

tarasgirl06

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Sep 19, 2006
Messages
24,708
Purraise
64,894
Location
Glendale, CATifornia
No matter what, always remember that the child is MUCH bigger than the cats and the cats must be protected from the kid because the kid's uncontrolled movements can hurt the cats.
I use Nature's Miracle-Just For Cats, an excellent enzymatic cleaner, for any "accidents".
Having been born and raised in a home where our cat had already been living for three years, I can say that being raised with a cat has made me kinder, healthier, and more compassionate than I would otherwise have been. My parents -- especially my mom, as she was around me more when I was a baby -- were very careful to watch me and instruct me, making sure I would not inadvertently hurt our beloved cat. Once I pulled his tail, ignorantly, and my mom pulled my hair, hard enough that it hurt, and then told me, "See? That's how he feels when you pull his tail!" I never did that again. A baby is too young to learn these things, but as they get older, they need to be taught, and they always need to be supervised around the cats to make sure the cats are not harmed.
 
Top