Fip In Cattery

kittymama2015

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
12
Purraise
1
I need some help and have no idea where to start. I've been breeding cats for 7 years with no issues. Suddenly, out of the complete blue I had a buyer contact me a couple of weeks ago saying their kitten had an enlarged liver and fluid in their lungs and it appeared to be FIP. I was stunned as I'd never had this in my cattery and very upset and confused. I didn't know much about FIP at all but this buyer took her kitten everywhere with her, to work at the vet's, on playdates, stores, outside, etc and I must admit I honestly thought this was her fault and a fluke as I'd never had a case in my cattery so I shrugged it off thinking it was her fault and told her to please keep in contact while she waited for a final diagnosis. Then another week later another buyer contacted me, same sire, different mom. Their baby had fip. I was devastated. I knew the first buyer's kitten had caught it from my cattery but I had no idea how and still don't. Two different mothers, same sire. Born around the same time, mothers nursed each other's kittens and raised together. Then I noticed a kitten that hadn't yet gone home, had a really swollen abdomen I took her to the vet and she had a temp. vet sent her home went back today temp was 103.6 vet drew straw fluid from her abdomen. confirmed it was likely fip. this is now the third case. I am devasted. same sire. 3 different mothers. how is this possible? I am shutting down the lines but I don't understand how it got into my cattery in the first place and i'm terrified and saddened over this. these babies don't deserve an ending such as this:( I've been trying to do research and I know bleach and clean but how do I eradicate the disease/virus once the last kitten leaves who has the fip when i'm sure the cats/kittens in my cattery likely all have the corona virus? I can throw away and change litter boxes no problem. I do that often anyhow. food bowls too. cat trees as well but what about my other cats I have? and I have other litters due shortly? how do I protect them? Is it the sire or the damn who passes this virus? I was reading kittens aren't born with this virus and that early weaning around 4-5 weeks actually makes it so that they will not get the virus. is this correct? thank you for any insight and help you can provide.
 

lutece

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Mar 8, 2018
Messages
4,499
Purraise
5,739
Very sorry this is happening to you. It is an awful situation to be in for everyone involved. As you know, FIP is caused by the ubiquitous coronavirus (present in most catteries) spontaneously mutating inside the cat to become FIP virus. FIP can be unpredictable and suddenly strike. Sometimes FIP will strike just one kitten, sometimes multiple kittens in a litter and sometimes multiple litters as you are experiencing.

FIP is more likely to strike when a cattery has multiple litters at once, especially when kittens from multiple litters are mixed together. If you have multiple litters due right now, my first recommendation would be to practice good isolation of each litter of kittens. Each mother and her litter should have its own separate room and should remain completely separated from everyone else in the cattery until age 12-14 weeks or later. Practice the best hygiene you can when moving from room to room to make sure each litter is as completely isolated as possible.

Even though you (like most breeders) have coronavirus in your cattery, not all of your cats are constantly shedding virus at all times. Keeping litters isolated, and additionally, keeping cats in smaller groups if possible, helps to reduce the amount of coronavirus that your cats and kittens are exposed to. Smaller groups of cats can also lower stress levels, which is also helpful in keeping everyone healthy. However, make sure all cats have adequate space, as cramped space raises stress levels.

If the FIP kittens in different litters are sired by the same male cat, I would additionally neuter that male and be cautious about using other cats from that bloodline. FIP can have a genetic basis.

Early weaning is controversial because it stresses the kittens, can lead to behavioral issues, and it is not clear if it is actually effective.

Winn Foundation 2015 article
https://www.winnfelinefoundation.or...al-articles/feline-infectious-peritonitis.pdf

Lots of information here at Sock FIP
HOME
 
Last edited:
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3

kittymama2015

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
12
Purraise
1
thank you so much for this information. I appreciate it and will definitely do as you've suggested:) how long does the corona virus live in the environment though and will there be time before the queens give birth to eradicate it so that the newborns don't come down with it? the male that sired the positive kittens are already being neutered next week. he's being taken out of my program as a precaution. I was also wondering about the queens who's kittens tested positive. should they be taken out as well?
 

lutece

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Mar 8, 2018
Messages
4,499
Purraise
5,739
You will not be able to completely eradicate coronavirus from your cattery at this time, since you doubtless have some cats that are shedding it. Your focus instead should be to reduce the amount of virus that each cat is exposed to at any given time. Establish good ongoing hygiene practices, especially with regard to litter boxes, as that is the primary way this virus is spread. Separate cats into groups, and set up your pregnant females in their own rooms.

From the Winn Foundation article:
"FECV is spread primarily by the fecal-oral route, and to a much lesser degree, through saliva or respiratory droplets. The virus can persist in the environment in dried feces on cat litter for 3 to 7 weeks, so scrupulous cleaning of cages and litter pans is important to reduce the amount of virus in the environment. Fortunately, FECV is susceptible to most common disinfectants and detergents. It is important to have adequate numbers of litter pans. Litter pans should be kept away from food bowls and spilled litter should be regularly vacuumed up from the floor."​

As far as spaying specific female cats, I would suggest that instead you think about trying to lower your overall numbers. It is definitely the case that a big risk factor for FIP is having lots of young breeding cats and many litters at once. If you can reduce your overall numbers so that you have fewer cats in your household and fewer litters at once, you reduce your risk. Think about all the breeding cats that you have, and your goals for your breeding program. Then retire as many cats as you can, keeping only the cats you really need for your goals.
 

lutece

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Mar 8, 2018
Messages
4,499
Purraise
5,739
Also, you may have more losses before this outbreak is over... so be prepared, just in case. When you place kittens from any litters that you have right now, try to place them in single cat homes if possible, or with a litter mate. Keep in touch with your buyers. Don't plan to do any new breedings right now; take a break if you can, waiting until the currently pregnant cats have their litters and those kittens are successfully placed in homes.
 
Last edited:

Noirele

TCS Member
Adult Cat
Joined
Jun 10, 2018
Messages
176
Purraise
246
Location
Perugia (Italy)
I am so sorry. I think maybe this site could help
Dr. Addie- How to prevent FCoV Infection
I'm afraid it won't be easy. It's possible to mantain a coronavirus free cattery, but it's of course kinda hard. First you have to be sure that every cat is not shredding the virus anymore, and that requires regular stool tests. Then, you have to test every stud or queen you introduce to the cattery, even for a single mating. Epidemic FIP is rare, usually there are only sporadic cases in coronavirus positive catteries. I think the genetic factor is incredibly relevant in your case
 

MissClouseau

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
1,733
Purraise
2,126
Location
Istanbul, Turkey
I also give my vote to a genetic problem. Most cats have corona virus but in only a small percentage that mutates into FIP. There isn't enough research either way so hard to tell why but one thing known is if the immune system gets weak over whatever the reason, it gets more likely corona will mutate into FIP, especially in kittens. So maybe the kittens had another genetic issue and once that hit an organ and/or left their immune system weak, it allowed FIP.

Some cats carry corona virus all their life so if the female cats got corona from this male cat (or already had it before him) they might carry all their life. Not necessarily but it is an option.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8

kittymama2015

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
12
Purraise
1
I am so sorry. I think maybe this site could help
Dr. Addie- How to prevent FCoV Infection
I'm afraid it won't be easy. It's possible to mantain a coronavirus free cattery, but it's of course kinda hard. First you have to be sure that every cat is not shredding the virus anymore, and that requires regular stool tests. Then, you have to test every stud or queen you introduce to the cattery, even for a single mating. Epidemic FIP is rare, usually there are only sporadic cases in coronavirus positive catteries. I think the genetic factor is incredibly relevant in your case

Thank you sadly so far I’ve had three positive cases from this and I’m sick over it:( three kittens under 3 months have died. I have found one see and three different mothers but the same sire whom I’ve used for 7 years. Like I said one first time mom one 5 year old mom retiring now and one other first time mom as well:( sick over this. No idea if other cases will pop up? The thing that clicked when you mentioned this is back in December I had gotten a new queen from Portugal and she was the only girl I had introduced to my cattery in quite a while and then it was immediately after this she got pregnant(her kittens did not to my knowledge have any fip kittens???) but the other kittens came down with fip same sire they were all together in my kitten room. So could she have carried the virus over from Portugal and passed it on in the mutated form and now everyone in my cattery is at risk? What do I need to do now? Her breeder will never admit fip in her cattery I’m absolutely sick and devastated over this:( I’ve never had anything before she came other then uris which I delt with.
 

lutece

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Mar 8, 2018
Messages
4,499
Purraise
5,739
Cats do not transmit FIP virus in the mutated form as far as we know. Cats transmit regular coronavirus, and it mutates inside the cat. Breeders have a tendency to blame other breeders... but most catteries with multiple cats have coronavirus. FIP can strike suddenly as you describe, and it may not have anything to do with the cat from Portugal. It may have something to do with your male as he was the sire of all the kittens, which is why it is prudent to neuter him, but it's not possible to know for sure. For example I personally knew a breeder that had a lot of FIP losses from the same male, but when that outbreak was over he never sired another FIP kitten again.

Many breeders will have a single isolated FIP loss from time to time, but anecdotally, in cases where I have seen breeders experience multiple FIP losses as you are experiencing, they have typically had multiple litters at once and have been mixing kittens from different litters together. You can lower your risk of FIP losses by lowering your overall number of cats, reducing the number of simultaneous litters, separating litters completely from one another, and separating groups of cats. This is what I have seen improve the situation for other breeders.
 

Noirele

TCS Member
Adult Cat
Joined
Jun 10, 2018
Messages
176
Purraise
246
Location
Perugia (Italy)
Things are complicated with FIP. Not only, like lutece said, the virus only mutates in a host, sometimes a cat carries the virulent mutation and still doesn't get FIP. That is because the mutated version is CAPABLE to cause the disease, but still needs a suitable substrate, such as a cat who is not able to mount the correct immune response. And many genetic diseases (or simply variations) could make a kitten vulnerable to such a complex virus.
To answer your question: yes, it could have been the new queen to introduce the coronavirus in your cattery (or to re-introduce the virus again). But probably the sire you used DOES have an added genetic risk. I think you should start to test them, if you want to be sure about how many of them share the coronavirus. Possibly all of them, but maybe not
 

lutece

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Mar 8, 2018
Messages
4,499
Purraise
5,739
I think you should start to test them, if you want to be sure about how many of them share the coronavirus. Possibly all of them, but maybe not
With lots of cats mixed together, you cannot effectively test them for things, as they continue to infect each other and viruses and parasites bounce around from cat to cat. If a breeder wants to test, it's best to first separate cats into small groups with good isolation. After they are separated many cats will naturally stop shedding virus.
 

Noirele

TCS Member
Adult Cat
Joined
Jun 10, 2018
Messages
176
Purraise
246
Location
Perugia (Italy)
With lots of cats mixed together, you cannot effectively test them for things, as they continue to infect each other and viruses and parasites bounce around from cat to cat. If a breeder wants to test, it's best to first separate cats into small groups with good isolation. After they are separated many cats will naturally stop shedding virus.
Yes and no. I mean, I agree that they will probably continue to spread the virus, but only 1/3 of coronavirus positive cats are chronic shredders, so testing stool and blood for antibodies is a gold standard in catteries. Once they stop to shred and reach a low antibodies level, you can separate them. It's what Dr. Addie advices to do anyway, and she's one of the world greatest experts on FIP.
 

lutece

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Mar 8, 2018
Messages
4,499
Purraise
5,739
Dr. Addie's advice is good if you are committed to eliminating coronavirus from your cattery entirely, generally meaning you have to operate a closed cattery and not exchange cats with other breeders. For many breeders that's impractical because of the need to keep inbreeding levels low, and that's one reason why Dr. Addie's advice is controversial, although it's good to know about. Testing also needs to come with a comprehensive plan of how to interpret the results, and what to do with the information (other than just freak out about the results).

Simply separating cats and lowering overall numbers will begin to lower risk levels even without testing. Since kittymama2015 kittymama2015 is currently in the middle of an outbreak, is expecting multiple litters of kittens, and has a previous practice of raising litters together and putting kittens of different litters together in a "kitten room," in my opinion the most important thing she can do right now is start separating those litters and practicing good isolation of each litter with its mother until the kittens leave the house. I'm not an expert by any means... but this is a good place to start as far as lowering risk with the litters currently due.

Once the mother cats are isolated... they could be tested if she wants, so that she has some additional information for new owners when placing the kittens (I would test the stool for virus shedding rather than test the blood for antibodies, though). Then moving forward, she can consider what she wants to do about a more comprehensive testing program if desired, and selecting cats to keep or remove from her breeding program.
 
Last edited:
Top