Fic, Lymphoma, Pyelonephritis?

[MarkI12]

Hi everyone, I signed up to these forums after reading how knowledgeable and helpful many of you were in other threads. My 11 year old cat has been urinating blood on and off for 2 weeks now and I'm at a loss with what very little information can be found online. We went to a first vet who gave us 14 days of Amoxicilin after finding bacteria and no crystals in the urine analysis. However after a week there was no improvement so I went to another vet who seemed to think it was either Pyelonephritis or Kidney cancer. He gave us 30 days of Zeniquin of which we have 20 days left to go as well as Hill's Kidney Care food. We chose not to do the ultrasound because of the steep cost and because the vet told us if it was cancer there would be nothing we could do.

Apart from the occasional blood in the urine he has enlarged kidneys but other than that he seems perfectly fine and has not really lost any weight or energy.

I realize it is impossible for anyone here to give me an accurate diagnostic but the information I've found online is so vague that I figured people who have experienced a similar situation may have some insight into what it could be? I was also wondering if there is any supplementation that I could give him to help support his kidneys?

Thank you!

Mark

 

[Furballsmom]

Hi!
Let me throw out a thought first, particularly since the vets aren't able to be precise - have you been feeding wet food before this started to happen?

Even if you have been, have you tried a different brand of canned/pouch?

Do you filter your water?

Also, in case you aren't familiar, there's this site, and they have a support group;

Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease - Support Section

 

[MarkI12]

Hi!
Let me throw out a thought first, particularly since the vets aren't able to be precise - have you been feeding wet food before this started to happen?

Even if you have been, have you tried a different brand of canned/pouch?

Do you filter your water?

Also, in case you aren't familiar, there's this site, and they have a support group;

Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease - Support Section

Hi! Thanks for answering.

We changed his food around a lot right before this happened because he was really picky and started vomiting up his food. We switched to cheap store brand cans because he seemed to like it and stopped throwing up. It was about 2 weeks after switching to this cheaper canned food that he started urinating blood. We do not filter our water but we have good quality tap water where I live.

 

[Furballsmom]

It sounds like you're way ahead of me.

Have you talked with your vet about L-Lysine?

Maybe other members here, or in Tanya's kidney cat support group will have more thoughts for you.

 

[MarkI12]

I didn't have any luck posting in the CKD support group... does anyone else have any experience they can share with me?

 

[rubysmama]

M MarkI12 : Hello and welcome to TCS. Sorry though about the circumstances that brought you here.

I don't have experience with CKD in cats, however, TCS does have this article which might be helpful:

Your Cat’s Kidneys Called

Plus one on Feline Idiopathic Cystitis - How To Improve Your Cat's Quality Of Life | TheCatSite

Also, back in 2014 TCS had a special forum where a Dr. Kris answered specific questions from members about kidney issues. Not sure if any of the info would be dated now, but you might want to check it out.

Kidney Issues in Cats with Dr. Kris

And lastly, I see you've already gotten a 2nd opinion, but if you have any Cat Only vets in your area, it might be worth considering a 3rd opinion.

If you want to look into cat only vets, here a link to search for one in your area. Just be sure you choose "Feline Only" in the Practice Type Drop Down menu.

Find a Veterinarian and Practice | The Cat Community

Good luck with your cat. Sending vibes that he feels better soon.


We love pictures here at TCS, btw, so if you have one of him you'd like to share...

How To Add A Picture To Your Forum Post | TheCatSite

 

[posiepurrs]

I think you are on the right track - sounds bacterial to me. I am not a fan of dry kibble and suggest that you only feed wet (canned). I actually broke my own rules about dry recently an now one of my cats is having issues. Some can tolerate kibble fine, but it seems my cats not in that group.
How did the vet determine the kidneys were enlarged if no ultrasound was done? If by physical examination alone it could be incorrect. I had that happen with 2 of my girls. Vet said BOTH had enlarged kidneys and suggested PKD (use to be common in Persians). I took them both to another vet, who was cat only for a second opinion. He laughed at me when I told him what the other vet said. Keep in mind this was before the DNA test for PKD was developed. Bottom line is you can't always tell from a physical exam.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

M MarkI12 , has your little guy ever had this bloody urine issue before? I'm wondering why this may be FIC vs lymphoma of the kidney, vs a kidney infection. How did FIC even come into the picture? Is he experiencing pain while urinating or has he been diagnosed with this prior? Is he a nervous cat, or have there been some stressful situations around the house lately?

As far as whether if could be either kidney cancer or a kidney infection, kidney cancer in cats is quite rare, so I would think it would be more prone to be a kidney infection if it's not FIC, which I'm thinking it's NOT. Kidney cancer also would likely cause a slow weight loss and lethargy, which you say isn't happening. As well as the 30 days of zenaquin, is your little guy eating the Hills Kidney Care Food? You asked about kidney supplements and really, right now, that food might be all he needs to help with an infection, aside from the antibiotics.

I've had three kidney cats and am not sure there is really any kidney supplements that will help support the kidneys. There are many out there (just google kidney support for cats), but not sure if any really work. Here is the link from Tanya's website that discusses holistic treatments: Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease - Holistic Treatments

 

[MarkI12]

I think you are on the right track - sounds bacterial to me. I am not a fan of dry kibble and suggest that you only feed wet (canned). I actually broke my own rules about dry recently an now one of my cats is having issues. Some can tolerate kibble fine, but it seems my cats not in that group.
How did the vet determine the kidneys were enlarged if no ultrasound was done? If by physical examination alone it could be incorrect. I had that happen with 2 of my girls. Vet said BOTH had enlarged kidneys and suggested PKD (use to be common in Persians). I took them both to another vet, who was cat only for a second opinion. He laughed at me when I told him what the other vet said. Keep in mind this was before the DNA test for PKD was developed. Bottom line is you can't always tell from a physical exam.

Thanks for this, from what I read I don't feel like his kidneys are that large upon touching them but I am not a vet whatsoever so who knows.

 

[MarkI12]

M MarkI12 , has your little guy ever had this bloody urine issue before? I'm wondering why this may be FIC vs lymphoma of the kidney, vs a kidney infection. How did FIC even come into the picture? Is he experiencing pain while urinating or has he been diagnosed with this prior? Is he a nervous cat, or have there been some stressful situations around the house lately?

As far as whether if could be either kidney cancer or a kidney infection, kidney cancer in cats is quite rare, so I would think it would be more prone to be a kidney infection if it's not FIC, which I'm thinking it's NOT. Kidney cancer also would likely cause a slow weight loss and lethargy, which you say isn't happening. As well as the 30 days of zenaquin, is your little guy eating the Hills Kidney Care Food? You asked about kidney supplements and really, right now, that food might be all he needs to help with an infection, aside from the antibiotics.

I've had three kidney cats and am not sure there is really any kidney supplements that will help support the kidneys. There are many out there (just google kidney support for cats), but not sure if any really work. Here is the link from Tanya's website that discusses holistic treatments: Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease - Holistic Treatments

Thanks for answering! Yes he is on Hill's kidney care canned but for the past 2-3 days I've had a harder time getting him to eat it. Upon further reading I've also come to the conclusion that it's either kidney cancer or a pretty nasty infection. One thing I should add is that a month before blood started to appear in his urine he had really foul smelling breath which is no longer present since starting the antibiotics. As far as lethargy goes I can't really say that he's more lethargic than usual but he is a pretty lazy cat to begin with. I've noticed over the last 2-3 days that he's been more affectionate than he's been in a while so maybe that's a good sign? He's always coming to us and rubbing himself on us while purring loudly... fingers crossed for the infection rather than the cancer.

 

[MarkI12]

Little update : Like I mentioned he seemed to be having a bit of a reduced appetite lately which had me worried that his situation was worsening. It turns out I think he just doesn't like the Hills Kidney care because I tried mixing in some flaked tuna in water with the food and he absolutely devoured it. Not sure how to go from here but I guess I'll look into feeding him raw. Definitely an encouraging sign that he still has an appetite though.

 

[Furballsmom]

some flaked tuna in water with the food and he absolutely devoured it

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Yes, having a good appetite is, in my mind, a very good sign

 

[MarkI12]

So after almost 3 days of no blood in his urine I woke up to my cat meowing and leaving bloody urine spots all over the bathroom. After cleaning up I couldn'T go back to sleep so I started reading any more info that I could find. I stumbled upon a website with renal lymphoma case studies and at this point if I'm being honest with myself I am 80% sure that is what we are dealing with. His symptoms are more like the lymphoma than the kidney infection and at this point he's been on the antibiotics for 3 weeks so I think the reappearance of blood confirms this. I'm pretty sad about the whole thing.. this is my first time "grieving" a pet and it's a lot tougher than I thought it would be. As of right now he does not look like he is suffering so I will give him the best care for as long as I can. Thank you to everyone for the assistance and moral support!

 

[Furballsmom]

As of right now he does not look like he is suffering so I will give him the best care for as long as I can.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Recurrence of bleeding doesn't necessarily mean it's cancer. Google is a scary place to go when our furbabies are sick, believe me! Of course I think you should call your Vet and let them know about this and see what they have to say, but don't panic at this point. As you say, he doesn't appear to be suffering, even if it's meerly a bad kidney infection. From what I've read, IF it's renal lymphoma, they should be able to identify that with a needle biopsy, which shouldn't be much more involved than when they get urine out of their bladder, I wouldn't imagine.

 

[MarkI12]

Update : So Kovi's symptoms pretty much stopped last week. No more excessive thirst and urinating and no more peeing blood or outside the litter. The problem is now that he has even less of an appetite than when there were symptoms.

I've pretty much tried everything from the Kidney care cans to fancy feast and baby food and I can barely get him to eat a small can a day. I read somewhere that he might be anemic from the blood loss and that could be causing the reduced appetite but I don't know.

I have a vet's appointment set for tomorrow but I wanted to stop here to give an update and see if anyone here had any input.

Thanks!

 

[Furballsmom]

Hi!
Have you had a chance to try pouch foods with the increased gravy they have?

Flat paper plates will often get a cat eating.

Even if you don't want to run the risk of increased tummy upset with different foods you can choose bland items like pureed unseasoned baby food or Pedialyte.

THE '~LIVER SHAKE~' FOR SICK CATS

In case something might help;

18 Awesome Cat Feeding Tips By Thecatsite Staff Members

Also here is a compilation of things;

Try feeding in different locations - and utilize different heights. For example put a couple of books underneath the dish, next time use two thick phone books, or a small-ish box so the heights are varied....

Try sitting with him and scoop some food on your finger or a spoon and hopefully your kitty will lick it. Or gently tuck some food inside the cheek.

Try some raw egg yolk. Egg white must always be cooked, and some people cook the white and make a slurry of sorts by adding in the raw yolk.

Also you could try some Nutri-cal or similar product.

Try making these recipes - they're just as viable for an adult cat as for kittens;
Kitten-Rescue.com

These below can be used on their own or combined with food. Also, if you heat the food a little - stir it so there aren't any hot spots from the microwave.

Or you could heat some water, about a tablespoon, and add that to canned food. A small glass works to stir it all up.

• Chicken, beef or ham flavored (pureed) baby food such as Gerber Stage 2 - make sure there is no garlic or onions in the ingredients

• Tuna and/or the juice, a low mercury/low/no sodium brand is called SafeCatch

• Salmon, mackerel

• Sardines (make sure there are no bones)

• boiled cut up chicken or turkey with no seasonings

• canned kitten food any brand

• Try mixing in Kitten Milk Replacer - there are recipes on the internet or store bought

• Fish, tuna or BBQ flavored canned wet food (I personally have never seen BBQ flavors, but...)

• Lickable cat treats or pouch treat 'gravy' poured over the food

• kitten glop (recipes in website link above)
• Bonito flakes
• fortiflora
• fish oil
• green beans, asparagus mushed up, lettuce, applesauce, mashed chickpeas, black olives
• whipped topping such as reddiwhip
• dry pasta

• goat milk, or no lactose cow milk
• whole cooked eggs (the white must always be cooked) or raw egg yolk now and then
• broth with no salt and no garlic or onion or seasonings of any kind
• There are also commercial toppers, Applaws is a brand that can work well as a topper
  
• Some good treats would be freeze dried Purebites, Orijen, Meowtinis, Meowables, Only Natural Pet, Primal

• There are also Lickimats that you could spread types of soft food onto, even plain unflavored yogurt, and even freeze it. Licking something can help a cat to feel better emotionally The LickiMat - Food Puzzles for Cats
• shredded cheddar cheese, string cheese

 

[MarkI12]

This will probably be my final post but I wanted to thank the people here for helping me out and give a final update. The vet is now certain that he does have renal lymphoma and he has lost another 1 1/2 pounds since his last visit. The vet game me subcutaneous fluids and appetite stimulants but I don't know how long that will be effective. He has deteriorated really rapidly over that past few days and I can't bare to see him like .

I got Kovi when I was 17 and had just moved out. I'm 29 now and this is the first time I will have to have a pet euthanized. He was there through my entire young adulthood and it feels like much more than just losing a pet, it feels like a chapter of my life is ending.

I didn't expect to be this sad and as an almost 30 year old man I feel compelled to hide my grief because let's be honest a lot of people feel like "it's just a cat".

I will try to make his final days as bearable and enjoyable as possible and if any of you have tips and advice as to how to go about this please do not hesitate to share.

Thanks again.



Mark.

 

[Furballsmom]

We here know that your cat is so very much more.

A heated or thermal bed maybe, unflavored Pedialyte or homemade kitten glop from my list above if he wants it, and if you need it for yourself so your emotions don't overwhelm you or him, holy basil, l-tryptophan, ignatia Amara all can help.

Also there is the website Day by day caregiver support as mentioned in this thread;
Resource For Grieving Or Caregiving