Feral Mom and kittens

[Cattycoves]

MOD NOTE:
We locked a thread as a little one passed away but moved this over to keep the conversation about the mother and kittens going.




If today wasn’t problematic enough with losing toast this morning, new issue has arised the feral mom won’t even let me walk in the bathroom now full on savage. It wouldn’t be too bad if I didn’t need to pull the baby out to weight and check on yk, the other two in the litter passed and she could be at risk for congenital issues as well. Not to mention the vet apt she has to go to soon what do I do! It is so imperative I closely watch her weight the other two babies appeared fine and fastly declined! I can’t lose puddles too she is 3 weeks old today. Would it be totally unethical to start bottle feeding and get Mavis TNVR’d already? She used to be okay with me feeding her and giving her water as well as changing the litter box but now she’s associated me with her kittens not coming back I let her smell toast’s blanket he was last on before he passed because my vet said I should.. I know she’s probably upset after losing him but I also need to make sure puddle is staying healthy as well..not to even mention I can feed Mavis give her water or scoop her litter.
I’m really at a loss of what to do. And lickable treats just don’t work she goes full on attack mode anytime the door opens so anythign that requires being close to her not an option. Please help!!

This was before Mavis started acting like this

 

[Sarthur2]

Give her a few days to see if she calms down a bit. Try to handle the remaining kitten only as necessary for now. Move slowly and speak softly.

I would wait on the TNVR for now. The kitten needs her as it is only 3 weeks old, and it seems mom needs her kitten.

Be patient and give it time.

Cattycoves

 

[iPappy]

Hi, I have limited experience with handling ferals on this level but I have found it helpful to crack the door so they can see, hear, and smell me and let them get calmer about my being there before actually having to do much with them.
What a situation for you. I am so sorry about the loss of the two other kittens, as well.

 

[catsknowme]

I concur with Sarthur2 that baby is probably still better off with Mavis. Puddles will still be able to benefit from maternal antibodies (passive immunity).
Condolences on losing Toast (I loved the name)! I recently lost a little foster (I call him Silver Ghost in honor of the air racer Galloping Ghost) and vet thinks for the same reason. Nightly, I pray for kitties in need and knowing that Mavis will be TNRV'd is a prayer answered!
Prayers uplifted for dear Puddles

 

[tabbytom]

she goes full on attack mode anytime the door opens so anythign that requires being close to her not an option. Please help!!

Before you reach the door, announce your arrival by calling her name out in a soft sweet voice and do not just open the door and move in as this will give her a chance to lash out at you as she is still unsettled and any noise or movements will put her on guard.

Also after announcing your arrival, kneel down on the floor and open the door slowly while still calling her and speaking to her in a sweet loving voice and talk to her from a distance. Keep yourself low as this will not be intimidating to her as she sees that you are not like a giant hovering over her. Make no sudden moves, every move you make must be slow. Once she gets use to this and know that you are no threat to her, she'll learn to calm down and start to trust you.

This is not an overnight thing but have to build it up over several days to weeks. Remember, patience, love and routine rules the day. Take it step by step and don't rush through it else she'll loose trust in you and it'll be more difficult the next time round.

 

[Cattycoves]

Before you reach the door, announce your arrival by calling her name out in a soft sweet voice and do not just open the door and move in as this will give her a chance to lash out at you as she is still unsettled and any noise or movements will put her on guard.

Also after announcing your arrival, kneel down on the floor and open the door slowly while still calling her and speaking to her in a sweet loving voice and talk to her from a distance. Keep yourself low as this will not be intimidating to her as she sees that you are not like a giant hovering over her. Make no sudden moves, every move you make must be slow. Once she gets use to this and know that you are no threat to her, she'll learn to calm down and start to trust you.

This is not an overnight thing but have to build it up over several days to weeks. Remember, patience, love and routine rules the day. Take it step by step and don't rush through it else she'll loose trust in you and it'll be more difficult the next time round.

thanks for the advice but this is absolutely not possible for Mavis. She lost all her trust when toast died she associates me with her babies going missing/dying I think. She’s made me and 2 other people bleed in the past 4 days no matter how I enter she gets me. The rescue I’m fostering her through, after seeing how she is in person has also advised her Tnvr to happen and put puddles on a bottle I’m still trying to stick it out but any time anyone’s even goes by the door she lashes out. She’s becoming impossible as each day goes by.. I can’t feed her or give her water without using gates. Puddles is becoming very hissy as well by how much Mavis is attacking. I had seen the thought of “hey get her some orphan kittens” the rescue advised against it because of her two other kittens being sick they didn’t want to possibility of any sickness passing to healthy kittens as Mavis has not seen a vet. Puddles goes for an appointment on the 11th I have no idea how I’d even get her out for it at this point. Im very aware it isn’t ideal to take her away from Mavis but for the sake of both cats it may be best? I’ve never dealt with a feral In my entire life like her, and no other foster is equip/ willing to take her with her behavior.. I reckon tomorrow we’re trying her on a bottle to see how she does or if she’ll even take it. This has been such a crazy time recently I never expected taking her off the streets and trying to help her would turn out this way ‍ I feel extremely conflicted I posted on some FB groups for opinions and most are for her going on a bottle and others saying I need to bond with Mavis but she is just NOT a human kind of cat she doesn’t even take churru lockable treats! I have NEVER met a single cat that doesnt Love that stuff even my picky mr I don’t like wet food loves It .
Well if anyone has advice on this situation feel free to leave your opinion just remember to be kind FB groups were awful to ask for opinions.

I do have a question, if she doesn’t take the bottle at first what can I do to encourage the bottle feeding for her?

 

[tabbytom]

I wonder if using this is possible to feed the kitten.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B1CHYQ43/?tag=thecatsite

 

[Sarthur2]

tabbytom Nothing came up when I tried your link.

Cattycoves Kittens with moms will resist bottle feeding. Since the kitten is already 3 weeks old, I still think you should wait it out. I think getting one or 2 similar-aged kittens in with the kitten would help mom and the kitten. They both sound healthy enough and the kitten needs playmates.

I know I’m not the one dealing with an angry cat, but she wasn’t always like this. I think separating her from her last kitten when she’s already upset is the last thing she needs.

Wear long pants, long sleeves, and gloves when you go in. You can skip weighing the kitten for now. Plug in a Feliway diffuser in the bathroom. Also ask about sedating mom for her appointment when the time comes (a pill crushed in her wet food). It also sounds like mom may be tired of being closed in the bathroom.

 

[tabbytom]

Nothing came up when I tried your link.

https://a.co/d/0ByUlr3

 

[fionasmom]

You have tried very hard to help this family, and no one is going to criticize you here. I have only ever worked with ferals, and my pet cats are all former ferals. I am not going to hijack your thread with stories of my own, but I have seen feral mothers go to all extents possible even risking death to save their kittens. I have also witnessed the loss of a kitten to trigger a response not unlike that which you are seeing. This includes even being denied access to their kittens. That is the reason that almost all feral cat rescue groups, recommend leaving a litter with a feral mother when you find it.

I agree with the advice above, that you should try to continue on as best you can, and to leave the kitten with the mother. It sounds as if you cannot get other orphaned kittens, although I think that would help,

 

[Cattycoves]

Hi all, it’s been awhile since my last “entry” if you will. Puddles is thriving and gaining weight everyday. She’s got a beautiful personality that would light up the grumpiest of people. Puddles was put in a bottle and removed from Mavis. I know how controversial that is but I couldn’t sleep thinking that while I was gone she could be declining and I wouldn’t have any knowledge of it and yet again I would be too late to save her and also that she is in her prime learning stage where she was learning her moms fearful aggression towards humans. In turn making it harder for her to enjoy inside life at the very beginning of her little life. I had puddles a out few hours away from Mavis and would you believe it ? They BOTH are doing so much better. Mavis is chilling out and becoming sorta tolerable with my existence and puddles is learning healthy play from my sweet gentle giant and healthy human interaction as well. Mavis is leaving for surgery Tuesday at 6pm and I get to pick her up Wednesday at 6pm to bring her home. Puddles is now in a play pen area and my cat po likes to visit OFTEN he seems as smitten with her as I am. Puddles sees a vet on the 11th to get dewormed and checked out for any sign of congenital issues. I also hope to get her FIV tested. Po recently will be going with her to get his own exam and FIV testing. Mavis mothered a previous litter I caught in Nov/dec of 2022 I had them fully vetted and then “surrendered” to the rescue they’d been there a few weeks now mind you, and just yesterday the founder texts me upset asking why I didn’t tell her they have FIV… I quickly said what?! I had no knowledge of what FIV even was ! I explained to her and she still seemed ticked off like I lied about it. However I did research and it said FIV passes thru wounds and saliva in a wound. One of the kittens was nursing on po constantly for whatever reason and he let her. Near the end of my having the 3 feral kittens in the house, I noticed marks on po’s neck. I’m not new to these marks at all. Po has a serious issue with male cats but likes them as kittens just not when they hit puberty even neutered males he doesn’t like ‘em. Anyway he will hiss growl moan at male cats he doesn’t like them around at all however it seems one of these males went back at him and left wounds that have only just now started to heal. But now I’m scared that he may have it as well. And puddles is a risk by default because the rescue thinks Mavis had it and spread it to her babies. So now I’m anxiously awaiting May 11th to come to find out more. Overall puddles is doing amazing on the bottle and I hope to find that she is clear of any medical issues, hopefully po is clear of FIV, and lastly Mavis is taking her freedom ride to her furever home even though it’s outside it’s what home is to her. I will continue to put food out for her with fresh water daily as I’ve always done. I hope she can find away to forgive me of all that I put her through and realize she’s free to be a cat now and not just a baby making machine. Ty all for reading, I will continue to update you guys and ask for advise for puddles. As for toast and soup I’m sorry I couldn’t save you. Maybe it wasn’t in the cards for us. Maybe in some spiritual way we’ll meet again. (I know how some feel about the topic but i like to believe in reincarnation, i like to think that their soul lives on and make their way back to us in some way throughout our lives, even if in one life you knew them as a cat or a dog maybe they come around as a bird, or butterfly, or a little caterpillar to brighten your day, to remind us that life goes on and with time you heal.) Rest in peace you little sweeties. Your sister is doing so well right now and im so proud of her.

Also tonight, 5/6/23 puddles used the litter box for the first time ! I never realized how bonkers I was until I was going around and telling my family and they thought I was crazy I even told her how proud I am of her she’s come so far so I’m okay with being crazy about her 🥹

When should she move over to wet food? I got some kitten pate whenever she’s ready
She takes the bottle great (about 15ml) each time what‘s the recommended times to feed her
(how many hrs ? Every 3 hrs, 4hrs, 5 hrs
I’ve just been watching her on the camera and I feed her when she wakes up she knows what it is not and comes running and screaming for food !

pics of puddles and po for you
They’re getting on so well I hope that continues he can have a best bud 🥹

 

[Cattycoves]

https://a.co/d/0ByUlr3

I did try it she wanted no part of it lol she preferred the regular bottle

 

[tabbytom]

Well done!

Po and Puddles are lovely!

Yes, you can try giving Puddles wet food as wet food is full of proteins and minerals n please get wet food labeled ‘For Kittens Only’ as this will aid in her growing up and for general development of health and wean her off after one year and slowly transit get over to adult food. Or on the other hand, you can get wet food labeled ‘For all Life Stages’ and this way, you don’t have to transit yet over to adult food when she matured at one year old.
If she’s not drinking milk from momma, then you can get her milk replacer and the brand is KMR. This milk will also boost her health and give her additional nutrients.

 

[tabbytom]

Cattycoves

How are things going? Any updates?

 

[Cattycoves]

Cattycoves

How are things going? Any updates?

Things with puddles are great she’s a happy growing girl 🥹, she has a follow up vet apt for kitten shots and a deworming Po cat and I are equally smitten with her lol, he loves her like she is his, had to get him to stop trying to stimulate her potty puddles has full rein of a room now because she decided at 5 weeks she’d make the great escape and kept getting out of her play pen, instead of risk her injury I said what the heck you can have a whole room. shes now 7 weeks old!!! Big girl
Is 2lb too soon to have her spayed ? My vet says that’s when they are able to,

 

[tabbytom]

Things with puddles are great she’s a happy growing girl

What a cutie!

That's great to hear!

 

[catsknowme]

Thank you for the VERY happy update with adorable pictures! What a cutie pie!! Po is such a treasure as well, being foster dad. Our county AC does spays/neutering at 2 lbs and the kittens seem to do well - definitely easier recovery than what I have seen in adult cats.

 

[tabbytom]

Cattycoves

Any updates?