Feline leukemia positive cat vet says put to sleep

[bugmankeith]

A friendly stray I have been caring for has poor health and tested positive feline leukemia. However last year she tested negative for it. She is loosing weight, red blood cell count is dangerously low and she is severely anemic with white gums, she hardly eats or moves. Vets said she has weeks to live and there is no cure to put her to sleep.

I was reading and it says leukemia isn't always fatal and has different stages, is she at the last stage where health will just decrease, she lives outside so she won't really be living comfortably.

I didn't want to make a decision right away and in hoping its not a false positive, is this really killing her slowly, should she be put down?

I'm worried about my other 2 outside cats as they shared food and water bowl with her and sleeping areas.

Really upset and sad don't know what to do need facts!

 

[stephenq]

Hi,

What a sad case this is.  Sometimes cats with FeLV (shorthand for feline leukemia) will shake it off early on, and others won't.  Some can live with it for some time, but in the end it is generally fatal, and when a cat gets to the condition your stray is in, it is going to take her life.  The Elisa test sometimes produces false positives so to rule this out you could do an "IFA" test, which would need to be sent out, and not done in-office.

A positive test result in a healthy cat would warrant re-testing but given her condition there really is no other conclusion one can reasonably reach.  She is sadly dying and the final gift you can give her is to release her from this illness.  If you don't there will likely come a time (soon) when she will be too ill to return to your home and she will die outside in distress, if she is outside now.

FeLV is also highly contagious and casual contact (grooming even) with another cat can infect other cats so just from the standpoint of the welfare of your other cats and other cats outside, she needs to be brought in to the vet.  Between now and then she must not share food or water bowls or litterboxes any more nor have any contact with other cats.

Your cats should probably be tested twice, once after a suitable incubation period has elapsed, and possibly a second test later as a backup.  Leukemia positive cats do NOT benefit from the FeLV vaccine, but a cat who has been exposed but does not yet test positive may benefit from the vaccine so please discuss this with your vet.  The vaccine offers many but not all cats protection so it still may be worth considering.

Articles on the subject:

http://www.thecatsite.com/a/feline-leukemia-virus-felv

 

[bugmankeith]

Hi,
What a sad case this is.  Sometimes cats with FeLV (shorthand for feline leukemia) will shake it off early on, and others won't.  Some can live with it for some time, but in the end it is generally fatal, and when a cat gets to the condition your stray is in, it is going to take her life.  The Elisa test sometimes produces false positives so to rule this out you could do an "IFA" test, which would need to be sent out, and not done in-office.

A positive test result in a healthy cat would warrant re-testing but given her condition there really is no other conclusion one can reasonably reach.  She is sadly dying and the final gift you can give her is to release her from this illness.  If you don't there will likely come a time (soon) when she will be too ill to return to your home and she will die outside in distress, if she is outside now.

FeLV is also highly contagious and casual contact (grooming even) with another cat can infect other cats so just from the standpoint of the welfare of your other cats and other cats outside, she needs to be brought in to the vet.  Between now and then she must not share food or water bowls or litterboxes any more nor have any contact with other cats.

Your cats should probably be tested twice, once after a suitable incubation period has elapsed, and possibly a second test later as a backup.  Leukemia positive cats do NOT benefit from the FeLV vaccine, but a cat who has been exposed but does not yet test positive may benefit from the vaccine so please discuss this with your vet.  The vaccine offers many but not all cats protection so it still may be worth considering.

Articles on the subject:
http://www.thecatsite.com/a/feline-leukemia-virus-felv

Thank you for the reply. She has been boarded at the vet past 3 days pending results so she isn't near any other cat plus she got to rest and not have to suffer outside in the cold. She matches almost every symptom of last stage leukemia and if there is no hope getting better and she is going to slowly die then I do think its best to put her to sleep.

The sad part is I knew her all my life , she was born in my yard and she never left, she was my first stray I socialized and was able to handle and every vet she was at said she was in great shape and friendly. I had been trying to find the cats permanent indoor homes but nobody wanted them. I had trained her to come into my house once in a while (like on these past winter days it was bitterly cold or rainy days) so she slept for a few hours then went outside at night in dog houses I had bought. The only thing is my indoor pet cats had contact with her inside so I'm worried, but they got their vaccine yearly so hopefully they aren't sick either. I'm getting them tested next week and vaccinated. But the 2 other strays outside im worried about too as they ate from the dishes and slept in same houses outside I don't want to go through this again its so sad.

 

[cat nap]

Thank you for the reply. She has been boarded at the vet past 3 days pending results so she isn't near any other cat plus she got to rest and not have to suffer outside in the cold. She matches almost every symptom of last stage leukemia and if there is no hope getting better and she is going to slowly die then I do think its best to put her to sleep.

The sad part is I knew her all my life , she was born in my yard and she never left, she was my first stray I socialized and was able to handle and every vet she was at said she was in great shape and friendly. I had been trying to find the cats permanent indoor homes but nobody wanted them.

I had trained her to come into my house once in a while (like on these past winter days it was bitterly cold or rainy days) so she slept for a few hours then went outside at night in dog houses I had bought. The only thing is my indoor pet cats had contact with her inside so I'm worried, but they got their vaccine yearly so hopefully they aren't sick either. I'm getting them tested next week and vaccinated. But the 2 other strays outside im worried about too as they ate from the dishes and slept in same houses outside I don't want to go through this again its so sad.

@bugmankeith    I really would not worry about your other strays,  right now.....but it is advisable to get them tested.  The Felv virus is not spread casually from food dishes and litterboxes.  (with all due respect to the above post by @StephenQ  ...although I have read articles which say this exact same thing.....so to err on the side of caution.....would be wise....however....my vet reassured me that it does not spread through casual contact.)  I suppose if the strays were fighting or mating, then, yes....I would be concerned.

there is another article from a TCS member here:   http://www.thecatsite.com/t/268593/fiv-felv-questions  and another one which mentions yahoo groups here  http://www.thecatsite.com/t/274603/my-cat-has-felv-and-anemia-i-am-so-sad

  My vet told me that there would have to be deep cut bites, and saliva exchanged on open sores.....and that the virus....cannot really live for long outside a warm cat's body.  This was what I was told.

My cat Sparky, was also a stray, and I had him for 2 yrs..3mts, until he developed complications from being both felv+ and fiv+.  He lived indoors/outdoors,.....until he was diagnosed (age 1.5yrs)....and then the vet suggested strictly indoors...so as not to get into any cat fights.  The vet thinks he may have had the virus from birth.

He also lived inside with my senior cat, Spotty, who is now 14yrs old.  Spotty had always had vaccinations for felv,  but not for fiv.....so I too was worried about him.  My vet said that he would not worry, if they slept together or sometimes snuck food from same bowls......since Spotty did have the felv vaccine already....and both cats never played rough.....only friendly  battles.

Again, I do not mean to contradict anything that @StephenQ   posted.....since there are two current views on how this disease is spread.  To be safe, I would keep strays, always separate from house cats, until vet testing.

I am sorry you are going through this difficult time with your stay cat.  It is never easy, to see any cat suffer.

My prayers are with you.

 

[bugmankeith]

@bugmankeith
   I really would not worry about your other strays,  right now.....but it is advisable to get them tested.  The Felv virus is not spread casually from food dishes and litterboxes.  (with all due respect to the above post by @StephenQ  ...although I have read articles which say this exact same thing.....so to err on the side of caution.....would be wise....however....my vet reassured me that it does not spread through casual contact.)  I suppose if the strays were fighting or mating, then, yes....I would be concerned.

there is another article from a TCS member here:   http://www.thecatsite.com/t/268593/fiv-felv-questions  and another one which mentions yahoo groups here  http://www.thecatsite.com/t/274603/my-cat-has-felv-and-anemia-i-am-so-sad

  My vet told me that there would have to be deep cut bites, and saliva exchanged on open sores.....and that the virus....cannot really live for long outside a warm cat's body.  This was what I was told.

My cat Sparky, was also a stray, and I had him for 2 yrs..3mts, until he developed complications from being both felv+ and fiv+.  He lived indoors/outdoors,.....until he was diagnosed (age 1.5yrs)....and then the vet suggested strictly indoors...so as not to get into any cat fights.  The vet thinks he may have had the virus from birth.

He also lived inside with my senior cat, Spotty, who is now 14yrs old.  Spotty had always had vaccinations for felv,  but not for fiv.....so I too was worried about him.  My vet said that he would not worry, if they slept together or sometimes snuck food from same bowls......since Spotty did have the felv vaccine already....and both cats never played rough.....only friendly  battles.

Again, I do not mean to contradict anything that @StephenQ
  posted.....since there are two current views on how this disease is spread.  To be safe, I would keep strays, always separate from house cats, until vet testing.

I am sorry you are going through this difficult time with your stay cat.  It is never easy, to see any cat suffer.
My prayers are with you.

I was reading a post in a thread from sarah457 http://www.thecatsite.com/t/274603/my-cat-has-felv-and-anemia-i-am-so-sad I think and her cat had same symptoms and lived 15 more months getting blood count up, nobody mentioned that to me! I'm not sure of the cost and the fact she would have to go through that living outside, does this mean she only would live longer if someone kept her inside, I hope the vets aren't suggesting PTS only because I said I can't keep her inside, I'm so confused and stressed when a life hangs in the balance!

 

[catwoman707]

Hi there,

Okay yet another story here! Haha, and as @cat nap  said, with all due respect to both cat nap and @StephenQ  , as well. 2 Awesome contributors to this great site.

So, I have a cat rescue group, and I have dealt with several cases of felv. Trying to think where to start here....

As you will notice, doing some investigating from different vets, you will def. see some variations.

Some will say it is highly contagious and never share dishes, mutual grooming is terrible, that many outside cats have this and so on.

The truth of this matter, coming from an expert doctor/scientist from nearby UC Davis Medical Vet teaching school where I attended a symposium and did learn alot, I trust in what this man says, he also has all of the latest research/studies/updated information as many sites lack.

He said, it is NOT as contagious as formerly thought, and while it is possible to be contracted through mutual dishes, it would take repeated, day in and day out for years perhaps, and still would rarely happen this way, unless there were a very immune deficient cat sharing life with a very positive cat.

The virus is weak, it is killed very easily with regular everyday soaps and cleaners, and it will only last outside of the positive cat for 3 minutes.

Because of this, outdoor cats are NOT high contributors, unless they are not spayed/neutered, and will be bitten through fighting or mating. Bites are the 2nd leading spreader of felv, the number one is kittens who are born to a positive momma cat. (who likely contracted it during mating and being bitten.

So please don't worry needlessly about your cats because of limited casual interactings, nor the outside cats. 

As for your kitty, it's so hard to say because for one, where will she go/live? Will you take her home to be an inside only cat and simply get your resident cats vaccinated? You know, you could always try doing this, and treat her symptoms, supportive care. I don't know, is she infact in the end stage? Is she sick and can be given meds to get her well again? 

Now on to my Baby girl. This is why I question your kitty's situation. Vets don't see what we in rescue see, believe it, like how many vets will euthanize a cat for being fiv positive. What is up with THAT??! That's not a death sentence.....!! Gosh I know of many fiv pos cats who are living great lives, healthy and fine for many years...I mean come on...!

So, Baby is this cat who I would see now and then show up at one of my colonies I care for in town.

I would see this raggedy, very sick, skin and bones, like walking death cat. It was obvious she needed serious help.

She was quite evasive, each time I set out to trap her, she wouldn't show. This went on and on for several months.

I would begin to think she must have gone off and died, and as soon as I did, there she was again.

I finally got her, unbelievable is all I can say. I felt just awful for this little critter.

Here's her pic the night I trapped her. She weighed a whopping 4 pounds. I was afraid to handle her even for fear she would break, like lifting a toilet paper covered skeleton with rough fur, I can still remember how wirey it felt.

Her fur was so rough, and she was infested with lice. Lice is rare in cats, since it will only stay in extremely sick/debilitated cats.

She could barely breath from so much phlem and congestion, her inner lids were almost half way across her eyes. She was in grave condition.

Baby 001.JPG

• catwoman707
• Mar 15, 2013

Got her on clavamox right away, and took her in to be tested, felv positive. She was also extremely anemic. She had a tumor growth on her side too.The vet wanted to euthanize her right then and there.

Well! That wasn't going to happen, not yet, I needed so badly to allow her, if even a matter of weeks, to have some feel good life, I needed to help her feel better, if nothing else, give her a minute to know and feel, someone loves her, cares for her, will baby her and give her anything she could want, I just have this big problem watching a cat who has had a very bad life, be taken out of this life without even a short time to feel okay, better in some way, I needed to make a difference for her. Then I will let her go. I could see she was not likely going to miraculously get well again, the disease is too far gone.

I don't do what I call 'dead end' rescues too well. I try and try to hold out hope, do what I know might help make a difference.

Baby ended up staying here with me for close to 3 months. I adore and love her, she was given clavamox  on a lower dose for 2 months straight. 

Baby is fat, happy, lovable and very loved, living in Sacramento now, with a fine lady who is crazy about her.

This is Baby before she went to her new home. Fat chunky cute girl, soft as a bunny, constantly doing air muffins because she was so darn happy and content, this is why the blurry paws

Baby, Dottie 014.JPG

• catwoman707
• Apr 17, 2014

I adore her and always will. She is my special girl, such a longshot, but taught me so much about the disease. 

I am SO glad I didn't listen to the vet that day.

 

[catwoman707]

I was reading a post in a thread from sarah457 http://www.thecatsite.com/t/274603/my-cat-has-felv-and-anemia-i-am-so-sad I think and her cat had same symptoms and lived 15 more months getting blood count up, nobody mentioned that to me! I'm not sure of the cost and the fact she would have to go through that living outside, does this mean she only would live longer if someone kept her inside, I hope the vets aren't suggesting PTS only because I said I can't keep her inside, I'm so confused and stressed when a life hangs in the balance!

I absolutely believe this is the reason they want her to be pts.

Most definitely. I also believe that if she were able to live inside, it would change alot of things in her situation.

 

[bugmankeith]

I absolutely believe this is the reason they want her to be pts.
Most definitely. I also believe that if she were able to live inside, it would change alot of things in her situation.

I told them if a rescue can take her in and someone adopt her I would be ok with that, she is very friendly. If someone says no hope that should mean no matter what, not like there could be a chance to recover and just because I can't take her in to kill her.

I'm not sure what to do, true I can't keep her inside my house, but what if I kept her at the vets for treatment, could she recover enough that she can live a healthy life outside? I don't want her die , so if this is curable I would hope someone would step up and try to save her what good is a vet if they favor killing a cat if possibly can be saved.

I don't know what to do in this case? I'm on the border because I'm not sure who to believe or what is right.

 

[catwoman707]

I told them if a rescue can take her in and someone adopt her I would be ok with that, she is very friendly. If someone says no hope that should mean no matter what, not like there could be a chance to recover and just because I can't take her in to kill her.

I'm not sure what to do, true I can't keep her inside my house, but what if I kept her at the vets for treatment, could she recover enough that she can live a healthy life outside? I don't want her die , so if this is curable I would hope someone would step up and try to save her what good is a vet if they favor killing a cat if possibly can be saved.

I don't know what to do in this case? I'm on the border because I'm not sure who to believe or what is right.

FELV is not curable, she will have it for life.

However, when symptoms come up like now, she can be treated for them and recover as Baby did. I gotta tell you, Baby was a huge wake up for me about the disease. I mean she was just a mess. Barely alive

An felv cat really has no business living as an outside cat, to put it bluntly. It's unfair, and chances are, she is not going to get and stay healthy living outside. She needs the comfort and care of an inside cat, otherwise it's too stressful for her body and mind, which go together I believe.

Why can't you take her in?

Oh I also meant to say that, while a rescue would usually be hesitant about taking her, I did. I took a sick cat who was positive for both fiv and felv, she did get well and adopted, and is still doing good to this day. It's just a touchy thing, rescues like mine are usually non profit, and might be thinking there will be vet bills, etc.

Do you have money to spend on her? I was thinking too, there may be a sanctuary who would take her, that is if they have a set up for felv only cats. But they will want you to pay them to take her.

It's not likely that she can stay at the vets long enough to fully recover, anemia takes time to rebuild her blood cells, etc. 

 

[bugmankeith]

FELV is not curable, she will have it for life.
However, when symptoms come up like now, she can be treated for them and recover as Baby did. I gotta tell you, Baby was a huge wake up for me about the disease. I mean she was just a mess. Barely alive

An felv cat really has no business living as an outside cat, to put it bluntly. It's unfair, and chances are, she is not going to get and stay healthy living outside. She needs the comfort and care of an inside cat, otherwise it's too stressful for her body and mind, which go together I believe.

Why can't you take her in?

I already have 2 cats and I know they won't get along with this cat, not to mention my parents pay for the cats I have no money. So that is why.

But if what you said is true its not fair to be put to sleep simply because I can't take her in, this is where a rescue should step in to save her its ridiculous I've tried so hard for years to care for her when all she needs is a home to live but someone other than me.

 

[catwoman707]

I do understand what you are telling me.

Yes, what I'm saying is true, and I believe in my heart that if there is any chance at all that she will recover to live on for a while, then she should be able to.

However, I don't know what is going on with her, I mean she could very well be in the final stage, n=but I seriously doubt that if she tested negative only a year ago.

Is she being given antibiotics for anything?

 

[stephenq]

Ok so wow lots of great contributions and some very interesting differences of opinion - and its worth noting that TCS as a microcosm of the animal welfare community reflects differences of opinion that exist throughout the community at large and that is ok :-).

And without trying to specifically revisit the communicability of FeLV, I would like to note the historical differences between FIV and FeLV with how they are commonly described with FIV being the unfriendly cat disease and FeLV being the friendly cat disease.  The reason for this distinction is that FIV is hard to catch and requires significant bites etc, and FeLV is easier to catch and cats that are friends can give it to each other.

The compassion shown by all in this thread rally centers around helping the OP decide when to euthanize and how to best protect her cats and the cats in the neighborhood, both issues it seems are well understood by her.

 

[catwoman707]

Well stated post @StephenQ  !

The bottom line here? What is the right thing to do for this poor cat considering all circumstances....this is a tough one.

The biggest issue would be that she can not live outside anymore. It's just ethically wrong to put other cats who are around her who will be at risk. Although I believe the risk is less than some vets say, as they make it sound like ti can be caught very easily, by drinking from the same water dish from time to time. I am convinced it is not as easy as this, but facts do state regardless, it IS  a possibility. If a weak/malnourished/unwell cat is sharing this bowl, who's to say? This is what's wrong to do, put others at possible risk. FELV is NOT something that's 'not that bad'.

Money is another issue too. There's no way she can simply remain there and cared for, that would cost a small fortune.

I am wondering though if she is on antibiotics for something though. This would help determine if she has a chance to get well again, but would still need a place to go like a rescue or sanctuary situation.

Hopefully the OP will let us know.

I have to admit, sometimes I have a hard time accepting euthanization as an answer, if she didn't need to be at this point.

There is also a chance that she tested positive but her system may be in the middle of fighting it off too, as she was exposed but recently.  Hard to know.

 

[bugmankeith]

Here's an update.

I found a rescue willing to take her, they specialize in that they accept aids and leukemia cats. Its cage free and has an enclosed outdoor area as well and plenty of space.

I went to see Buttons (my cat), her red blood cell count increased by 2, so no drop. She is on antibiotics and they are going to start steroids, this will cover if any other underlying problem. She still has a temperature. The vets said she hardly ate, however I went there to visit and she immediately perked up and started meowing and got excited, the vets said she hadn't done that at all until now. I got her to eat some treats and small chunk of wet cat food, so she still wants to eat just very little but that's good she isn't totally lethargic.

I told the vet my plan about the rescue and she was like "well I don't like her red blood cell levels, if they don't increase in a few days put her to sleep". First of all no cat is happy staying at a vet, I'm sure the cage free rescue might cheer her up, and she still wants to get up and eat so that is good. This vet is trying to convince me to put her down, I mean if it was a pet couldn't it take weeks for blood to increase and anemia to go away? I don't want to give up, and that's why I figured the sanctuary can help give her all the care she needs, but this vet doesn't want to listen like she feels its hopeless and pointless but I don't see it like that.

 

[chloe16]

If your vet keeps pushing you to euthanize this cat perhaps its time for a new vet. Seems like he/she may only care about the money they will get from putting the cat down

 

[stephenq]

I am going on the assumption that both you and the vet care about this cat.  I have personally never met a vet who wanted to euthanize an animal in order to make $100.  Being in a vet's office isn't going to hurt her red cell count either.  The real question is she suffering, or is she feeling ok.  Does she eat, drink, pee and poop well with decent energy?  We're not there so we can't see her. Both you and the vet do see her, so are you seeing the same thing?

The sanctuary is a great idea if she is healthy enough to not suffer there.  If she's in bad shape the sanctuary may say the same thing as the vet, but hard to say from where I am.

If she has a chance of having some quality time that's great.  But please don't imagine that a cat who is significantly ill from FeLV is going to get better, at least not in the long run.  FeLV is an auto immune disaorder, and once they get really ill its because they have no immune system left and they are being attacked by opportunistic illnesses.

 

[cat nap]

Here's an update.

I found a rescue willing to take her, they specialize in that they accept aids and leukemia cats. Its cage free and has an enclosed outdoor area as well and plenty of space.

I went to see Buttons (my cat), her red blood cell count increased by 2, so no drop. She is on antibiotics and they are going to start steroids, this will cover if any other underlying problem. She still has a temperature. The vets said she hardly ate, however I went there to visit and she immediately perked up and started meowing and got excited, the vets said she hadn't done that at all until now. I got her to eat some treats and small chunk of wet cat food, so she still wants to eat just very little but that's good she isn't totally lethargic.

I told the vet my plan about the rescue and she was like "well I don't like her red blood cell levels, if they don't increase in a few days put her to sleep". First of all no cat is happy staying at a vet, I'm sure the cage free rescue might cheer her up, and she still wants to get up and eat so that is good. This vet is trying to convince me to put her down, I mean if it was a pet couldn't it take weeks for blood to increase and anemia to go away? I don't want to give up, and that's why I figured the sanctuary can help give her all the care she needs, but this vet doesn't want to listen like she feels its hopeless and pointless but I don't see it like that.

You are such an amazing owner, because you do these things for your strays, and also have indoor cats, too.

I would suggest asking your current vet to treat Buttons, as if she does not have the Felv+ diagnosis, especially the anemia, and  getting her to eat more, which may be difficult due to the fever.

At the same time,   find a vet who has more experience treating Felv+ cats.

Perhaps that rescue group, you mentioned can give you names of vets they work with.

I think a lot will come down, now on how Buttons responds to treatment, but she does need extra iron (Tinic) for the anemia, and may be even B12.  She also has to eat, to get better, so they are probably syringe feeding her.  It is a waiting game, too, when a cat is sick, but in the meantime, I really commend you for finding that rescue group.  Now you just have to find better treatment options, if they are available and affordable.

Also, if your job permits, could you go into your vets place daily, and see if Buttons can eat more, when you are there.

 

[cat nap]

....  FeLV is an auto immune disorder, and once they get really ill its because they have no immune system left and they are being attacked by opportunistic illnesses.

I know I am quoting @StephenQ....out of context.....but do want to agree here, .....that Buttons may well in fact not be able to recover.

  My cat had a good week but went downhill fast.  So I don't want to get your hopes up, unrealistically, either.

   You got her to a vet clinic, and even if the vet is so negative, I would just call around and ask for a second opinion.  In my case, it is a regret, I still have. 

May have not changed the outcome, but would not have hurt to try.

 

[bugmankeith]

I know I am quoting @StephenQ....out of context.....but do want to agree here, .....that Buttons may well in fact not be able to recover.

  My cat had a good week but went downhill fast.  So I don't want to get your hopes up, unrealistically, either.

   You got her to a vet clinic, and even if the vet is so negative, I would just call around and ask for a second opinion.  In my case, it is a regret, I still have. 
May have not changed the outcome, but would not have hurt to try.

Here's the situation. She hasn't gotten worse, she had gotten slightly better. They only just started steroids and never offered to syringe feed her, like I said almost like they aren't trying. This rescue person is supposed to come Tuesday. Except Sunday I am visiting buttons a little each day.

My question is, how do I know if she should be PTS or if I should give her to the rescue that is willing to try and give her best life however long she has? I have a time limit to make a decision, Monday night.

 

[stephenq]

I would say if she's improving and responding to supportive therapy and if the sanctuary will take her then she has bought some time.  But she can't be let outside on her own no matter what.  If she starts to go downhill at the sanctuary then they will like do the PTS.