Feline Distemper treatment

[julieh]

I posted this over on the pets.ca board but there's no harm in spreading the word on good news.

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Under normal circumstances, today is the day I would be burying yet another litter of kittens killed by panleukopenia. Fortunately for me and Enny, Mini and Mo, these are not normal circumstances.

Brief history: I foster for the local SPCA. Last weekend I had a kitten die from panleuk with the typical symptoms: vomitting, fever that fluctuated, extreme lethargy and dehydration. Symptoms started on Friday and the little girl (Cookie) had died by Sunday. Her brother Fudge started his symptoms the following day on Monday and was put to sleep on Tuesday.

I was on "death watch", litterally marking days of my calendar watching to see if my other 3 foster kittens came down with the symptoms. They were kept separate from the others but the virus "travels" well (clothes, hands...)

When my house got hit by the damn virus the first time, I had done some online research and found Ambertech's products. I asked here but no one had any experience with them. After Cookie and Fudge died, I looked up a supplier near here and got some "feline distemper" just in case. It was too late for the other kittens but I would try my hardest to treat the last 3 if I needed to.

On Sunday, exactly one week after the death of my first girl, Mo started throwing up and had a fever of just under 105F. Mo weighs under 2 lbs. I was devastated - on top of treating them for coccidia it looked they had been hit by the panleuk virus too. It was just a matter of days before the other 2 kittens would start throwing up too. I started with Ambertech's "Feline distemper" product every hour, all through the day and night for 2 days.

Today is "Day 3": Normally, today would be marked with all 3 kittens lying in pain, close to death (that would be tomorrow, day 4), dehydrated with me trying everything I could to get them to feel better. Instead, Day 3 is marked with a kitten pounding on the door to get me to feed her and all 3 of them crawling over me trying to get me to pet them first. Yes, they are more quiet than usual but they are NOT at death's door. They are eating, do not have a fever, have not thrown up since I started treamemt (they do have huge diarrhea though) They are not out of the woods yet as Panleukopenia is a horrible disease but we're a darn sight better than what my previous experience with this virus is !

On a normal day, my insides would be twisted with fear of what I would find next and helpless to do anything about the pain they were in. Today, I am smiling and being stomped on by purring kittens.

They have a dog version too: parvaid. If you have an animal (cat or dog) that has distemper or if you even *think* they might have it - do not hesitate to get this product - it just might save a life. I'm not saying this is a magic bullet and I would certainly advise everyone to check with their vet FIRST but if you have a positive diagnosis or until you do get to see a vet, I would try this product

Julie

 

[ktlynn]

Julie-
Your post brought tears to my eyes - I'm very thankful there are people like you who give so much of themselves.

I wasn't expecting to read any good news on a thread about distemper. This is an amazing story and something that all of us, especially those who foster and/or do shelter work, should know about.

As you say, this may not be a magic bullet, but there is no denying that you're seeing tangible evidence that the Ambertech product is making a dramatic difference for your kittens.

Bless you for your dedication and compassion - please give us an update on the kittens. All good thoughts and wishes to you and the little ones.

 

[julieh]

I would be happy to give you an update !!

They are all doing fine !!!

Seriously, I am hysterical with happiness for them. I walk around the house smiling for no good reason. They think they're being spoiled rotten - they get boiled chicken w/ rice and baby food for their meals and they are loving it !

This morinng I was down with them and was making jokes about how good they looked even though they should normally be dead by now. "Death sucks doesn't it kitties ? Here's some more chicken" "Hey, dead cats don't run away - get back here and take this medicine"

Their weight it creeping back up, even the little one who had been gradually loosing weight due to coccidia. The Vibactra plus from Ambertech is helping with that...

2 out of the 3 still have diarrhea but the littlest one, Mo who is the first to come down with symptoms is back to normal poop. Yes, I'm embarrased to say that I did a happy dance when I saw her poop !

I am seriously kicking myslef in the a$$ for not finding this before now but I will definately kep it on hand from now on ! The people at Ambertech have my heartfelt and sincerest thanks.

Julie

 

[ktlynn]

Hi Julie-

What fabulous news about the kittens! I'm so happy for them and you!

Can you tell us a little more about the product you used - does the company market it as a med or a supplement? What about the ingredients? What form does it come in and how often is it administered? How long did you use it before you saw results?

This is intriguing - if this product consistently shows such dramatic results, what a breakthrough it is!

Here's hoping the kittens continue to improve so well - keep the updates coming!

 

[julieh]

It's been just over a week and all are fine !

The product is marketted as a "dietary supplement that may help with the treatment and prevention of feline distemper". The same goes for the Parvaid for dogs. You can't claim a product does anything medical without proper FDA approval (ie: "cures distemper" would require the FDA approval and big bucks to test it).

It comes in a 1oz bottle, it's a liquid and to administer it you mix a few drops (there's a chart based on weight) with pedialyte. If you are treating an actual case of distemper, you dose them every hour day and night until they are eating on their own, then it goes down to 4-6 times a day. If you are using it to prevent distemper (ie: for a cat who was in contact with the virus but has not yet develloped symptoms) they are given the distempaid 4-5 times a day to stop the devellopement of the symptoms.

As mentionned above, I used it for both: Mo had started her symptoms and the other 2 had not. I put them all on the hourly "treatment" dosage even though Eeny and Mini had no symptoms yet. They never develloped any. I could have started the 2 on the preventative dosage but since I was up every hour anyways, I figured I wouldn't take any chances and gave it to them too.

Here's the main web site:
http://www.ambertech.com/

Here's the self help guide that I used. It's written for dogs but I was told they are in the process of writting a cat version. I figured the 2 were pretty similar.
http://www.parvaid.com/parv/Parvo_In...Help_Guide.pdf

This is one of her suppliers who has a great deal of info on her site
http://wolfcreekranch1.tripod.com/animal_health.html

A list of the different suppliers by region (a few of them have web sites that state to call them ANYTIME day or night, even at 2 am if they need the product urgently - they know it works !)
http://www.parvaid.com/distrib.php

Serioulsy, I can't say enough good things about the distempaid. I'm sure the Parvaid for dogs works just as well.

Think about it, 3 kittens who already have coccidia (and therefore are in a weakened immune state) get distemper and live to tell about it. How often have you heard that ?

I always read the testimonials on a sellers site with a grain of salt - who says the sellers didn't make it up ? But I am not related with them in any way (look up my previous posts about loosing kittens to distemper) and many of their distributors became suppliers after their own brush with parvo/panleuk.

These people deserve a prize !

 

[Anne]

I think your kittens were indeed extremely lucky. I can see why you're so excited

I would be too.

That said, I would like to take the opportunity and say here that TheCatSite.com does not endorse this kind of treatment in any way or form. As joyful as your recount of events was, it does not serve as any statistical proof that their product does indeed work. Some kittens recover from Feline Panleukopenia and the death toll is never 100%. Statistically, three kittens are just not an accurate sample. I just read about their company in their website -

Amber Technology came to life in 1996. My name is Cindy Van Komen and my mother and I are the principles in this partner owned company (LLC). Amber Technology was started to provide a way for us to earn an income and yet remain at home where we could take care of our families.
We originally intended to sell office supplies and computer parts. We had our business license and contacts to do so. But it was at this time that my daughter's puppy came down with parvo.

We took him to the vet where we were told he would die. At my daughter's plea my mother came up with an herbal concoction that we gave to the puppy. Well he didn't die and when I saw the vet's reaction I knew we had something special.

I'm sorry, but this isn't exactly a scientific method of coming up with a medicine. With all due respect to alternative medicine, and I do have some, there is such a thing as testing over a large sample of animals and conducting double blind tests too, comparing this to a placebo treatment. Just because some animals get better does not mean that this is due to this "concotion".

Again, I am sorry to be "raining" on your joyful experience, but I think it's out duty as a cat welfare oriented site to point that out. Unfortunately, there is no cure for this horrible disease. Some cats will make it, others will not. It's as sad as that. There are things we can do though -

1. Vaccinate all cats against it (and I realize your kittens are too young).

2. Give supportive veterinary care in the form of IV's and in some cases even blood transfusions.

3. Prevent exposure of un-vaccinated kittens to the virus. The feline distemper virus is very hardy and can stick around for years. If you have had an infected cat in your household, it's best to not bring in kittens that have not been fully vaccinated (and given time for the vaccine to take its effect) into the household. This virus sticks around everywhere, not just food bowls and litter boxes, but even carpets and upholstery. It's impossible to declare a house as clean of it, so it's best to just not introduce kittens into this environment.

This is really why I felt I had to post. With all due respect, I think I have to caution you against fostering anymore kittens into your home. These three made it through, hopefully, but others may not, no matter what this company is telling you.

 

[julieh]

Sorry I didn't see this earlier !

Some kittens recover from Feline Panleukopenia and the death toll is never 100%

I have read it's 90%.

With all due respect to alternative medicine, and I do have some, there is such a thing as testing over a large sample of animals and conducting double blind tests too, comparing this to a placebo treatment. Just because some animals get better does not mean that this is due to this "concotion".

I totally agree ! They do have a study on about 100 dogs for the Parvaid though. It's in the self help guide towards the end. And while I understand the need for double blind study for placebo effect - I don't think there is a placebo effect in animals ? I mean, in humans you can "believe" yourself to a cure. Animals can't do that. Of course, if you were looking for an FDA approval this certainly would have to be done.

If you have had an infected cat in your household, it's best to not bring in kittens that have not been fully vaccinated (and given time for the vaccine to take its effect) into the household.

Agree with you there to. Unfortunately, the kittens arrived at my house already incubating the disease. Pre-vaccinating isn't always a possibility - kittens that have been found abandonned and who most certainly have not been fully vaccinated need to be brought to a shleter or foster family for example.

I agree with you completely on the vet care, but I am suggesting a possibility for those who have their animals sent home to them from the vet to die. Not "instead of" vet care.

Don't worry about "raining" on my experience - not many people have the same joyfull outcome as me with this dreaded and deadly virus.

Julie

 

[tnrmakessense]

I think your kittens were indeed extremely lucky. I can see why you're so excited

I would be too.

That said, I would like to take the opportunity and say here that TheCatSite.com does not endorse this kind of treatment in any way or form. As joyful as your recount of events was, it does not serve as any statistical proof that their product does indeed work. Some kittens recover from Feline Panleukopenia and the death toll is never 100%. Statistically, three kittens are just not an accurate sample. I just read about their company in their website -
I'm sorry, but this isn't exactly a scientific method of coming up with a medicine. With all due respect to alternative medicine, and I do have some, there is such a thing as testing over a large sample of animals and conducting double blind tests too, comparing this to a placebo treatment. Just because some animals get better does not mean that this is due to this "concotion".

Again, I am sorry to be "raining" on your joyful experience, but I think it's out duty as a cat welfare oriented site to point that out. Unfortunately, there is no cure for this horrible disease. Some cats will make it, others will not. It's as sad as that. There are things we can do though -

1. Vaccinate all cats against it (and I realize your kittens are too young).

2. Give supportive veterinary care in the form of IV's and in some cases even blood transfusions.

3. Prevent exposure of un-vaccinated kittens to the virus. The feline distemper virus is very hardy and can stick around for years. If you have had an infected cat in your household, it's best to not bring in kittens that have not been fully vaccinated (and given time for the vaccine to take its effect) into the household. This virus sticks around everywhere, not just food bowls and litter boxes, but even carpets and upholstery. It's impossible to declare a house as clean of it, so it's best to just not introduce kittens into this environment.

This is really why I felt I had to post. With all due respect, I think I have to caution you against fostering anymore kittens into your home. These three made it through, hopefully, but others may not, no matter what this company is telling you.

I agree with everything that you've said. I've been skeptical of these products even though a friend swears by them. I just looked up Vibactra on the Amber Naturalz web site and it contains 17-21% grain alcohol. Alcohol is toxic to cats.

 

[di and bob]

Alcohol depresses the nervous system, in EVERY living being. Too much can kill ANY living being. When tiny amounts are ingested it may depress the nervous system but the possible GOOD ingredients in this mixture outweigh the bad effects. Chemo can cure or kill too. It depends on how much and how it is used. That being said, when you (and me right now) have a dying pet that the vet wants to put down even though thdey are right at this moment acting good, i will try anything. I am researching right now and will let everyone know how it works out.....

 

[tnrmakessense]

My heart goes out to you. I'm so sorry that you and your pet are going through this. It's heartbreaking. I did a little research on dissipating the alcohol and even though the friend who uses it recommended adding equal parts of hot water, a doctor who was asked by a recovering alcoholic whether cooking dissipates the alcohol in food, and the answer was only after about 3 hours at 350 degrees and then not entirely. Just for what that's worth.

 

[tnrmakessense]

Alcohol depresses the nervous system, in EVERY living being. Too much can kill ANY living being. When tiny amounts are ingested it may depress the nervous system but the possible GOOD ingredients in this mixture outweigh the bad effects. Chemo can cure or kill too. It depends on how much and how it is used. That being said, when you (and me right now) have a dying pet that the vet wants to put down even though thdey are right at this moment acting good, i will try anything. I am researching right now and will let everyone know how it works out.....

I got the alcohol information from the Merck Veterinary Manual (online - free) just FYI. They also have what looks to be an unbiased article about herbal remedies. Strangely, even though they mention that alcohol is one of the preservatives used, they didn't mention its toxicity. Not sure what, if anything, that means.

 

[tnrmakessense]

The only stat I could find in the Merck page on alcohol toxicity is that methanol (antifreeze) is lethal to dogs at 4-8 mL/Kg which would be .13 fl oz to .27 fl oz per 2.2 lbs.

 

[kittenmittens84]

I agree with everything that you've said. I've been skeptical of these products even though a friend swears by them. I just looked up Vibactra on the Amber Naturalz web site and it contains 17-21% grain alcohol. Alcohol is toxic to cats.

The “kitty DT” product also seems contain garlic which is...odd. Their product info doesn’t have much information at all supporting what each herbal ingredient is specifically supposed to be doing beyond general “fighting inflammation” or helping GI symptoms. I’m so glad your kittens got better but personally I’d save my money!

 

[Willowy]

There is a protocol for parvo puppies, for owners who can't afford to hospitalize the pup. It involves a certain amount (depends on the size) of sub-q fluids (or oral Pedialyte if injections are not possible) given frequently, glucose, potassium, and anti-emetics. Plus antibiotics to prevent a secondary infection. Dehydration is the real killer with parvo. Panleukopenia is a parvovirus, I don't know if it has the exact same symptoms as parvo in dogs but it probably isn't too different.

This protocol is only used after the vet has rehydrated the pet with IV fluids if the pet is already dehydrated. A badly dehydrated animal cannot absorb sub-q or oral fluids.

At any rate, I suspect the reason a lot of people see success with Parvaid (now called Paxxin) is because they're also being careful to keep the animal hydrated, and some of the herbs in the formula act as anti-emetics.

With hospital treatment, survival for parvo is now around 90%, so it's not a death sentence anymore. They've improved survival a lot since this thread was made in 2006. The outpatient protocol, if done correctly, has an 80% survival rate.

Of course hospitalization is the gold standard. But it's good to know there is an outpatient protocol. But it still requires a vet's help so don't try to do it yourself.

 

[white shadow]

.
First off..........IF anyone is posting for the benefit of the OP (the 'Thread Starter").......this thread was started in October 2006, and the OP hasn't posted here since November 4 2006.

Now, tnrmakessense - it seems you found this thread 'because' your friend talks about and praises these commercial products (see post #5 above).

Well, in the time since all that was posted, there have been developments in the treatment of feline panleukopenia............

A paper was published in 2017 outlining a demonstrated successful treatment protocol. It was originally available publicly online, but has since been deleted from there and now is restricted by paywall. However, the original publication is accessible through archive.org ("waybackmachine')...........it can be found here: Successful Treatment of Feline Panleukopenia: A Guide for Rescuers and Veterinarians (via archive.org). - [A word to the wise: copy it into a doc for yourself before it disappears again!] -

A careful read of that paper will tell you that, for kittens of less than 2 pounds, Tamiflu should be added/included.

Indeed, Tamiflu use against panleuk has been noted in numerous places.....Google exactly this: "tamiflu in cats"....of course, be prepared to sift carefully through numerous references.

For an excellent overview of the use of Tamiflu - including just how antivirals 'work' plus why its use is controversial - Dr. Wendy Brooks provides this plain-language coverage: Oseltamivir (Tamiflu) veterinarypartner.vin.com.

It should be noted too, that

• Tamiflu wouldn't be used by itself
• Tamiflu can be used for adult cats as well as kittens
• any treatments should be managed by a Veterinarian

Hope this will help!
.

 

[kittenmittens84]

^lol thanks for pointing that out, I completely missed the start date for this thread

 

[tnrmakessense]

.
First off..........IF anyone is posting for the benefit of the OP (the 'Thread Starter").......this thread was started in October 2006, and the OP hasn't posted here since November 4 2006.

Now, tnrmakessense - it seems you found this thread 'because' your friend talks about and praises these commercial products (see post #5 above).

Well, in the time since all that was posted, there have been developments in the treatment of feline panleukopenia............

A paper was published in 2017 outlining a demonstrated successful treatment protocol. It was originally available publicly online, but has since been deleted from there and now is restricted by paywall. However, the original publication is accessible through archive.org ("waybackmachine')...........it can be found here: Successful Treatment of Feline Panleukopenia: A Guide for Rescuers and Veterinarians (via archive.org). - [A word to the wise: copy it into a doc for yourself before it disappears again!] -

A careful read of that paper will tell you that, for kittens of less than 2 pounds, Tamiflu should be added/included.

Indeed, Tamiflu use against panleuk has been noted in numerous places.....Google exactly this: "tamiflu in cats"....of course, be prepared to sift carefully through numerous references.

For an excellent overview of the use of Tamiflu - including just how antivirals 'work' plus why its use is controversial - Dr. Wendy Brooks provides this plain-language coverage: Oseltamivir (Tamiflu) veterinarypartner.vin.com.

It should be noted too, that

• Tamiflu wouldn't be used by itself
• Tamiflu can be used for adult cats as well as kittens
• any treatments should be managed by a Veterinarian

Hope this will help!
.

White Shadow, I didn't understand the tone of your response. I found this thread because a friend had recommended a product manufactured by Ambertech, now Amber Naturalz for a critically ill cat of mine, so I searched this site for references, which took me to the 10/16/2006 posting by Julieh. What I found when I did some research about the ingredients in an Amber Naturalz product alarmed me, as did the FDA warning letter I found under their previous name, Amber Technologies. They offer no information on their site about who developed their formulations or the reasoning behind them. So I feel no shame or regret about responding to an old post. Other people may search for the same information as it is on Amazon and many other animal product sites. If you felt a new thread should have been started about Amber Naturalz , that would have been a fair and constructive thing to say.

 

[white shadow]

.
Just now catching up with this.....

tnrmakessense - nothing of the sort was intended. And, rather than derail the focus here, I'll PM you.

For my part/personally, I'm glad you posted this here. It may very well help someone else as you say.
.

 

[tnrmakessense]

.
Just now catching up with this.....

tnrmakessense - nothing of the sort was intended. And, rather than derail the focus here, I'll PM you.

For my part/personally, I'm glad you posted this here. It may very well help someone else as you say.
.

I'm sorry if I was overly sensitive. Thanks for your reply.