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Feeby's Flea Treatment Debate - Does It Apply To You?
- Thread starter FeebysOwner
- Start Date
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #22
Because the isooxazoline class compounds are regulated by the FDA, all products containing them HAVE to include the warnings - so, it's not like the companies are voluntarily electing to display them. The cut-and-dried part is that most NON-isooxazoline flea treatments don't have warnings about neurological issues because 1.) studies don't support a potential risk, and 2.) they are not monitored by the FDA (so the studies conducted are a bit different than EPA approved treatments).
All flea treatments have some kind of potential side effects, but the most serious of them all seem to be isolated to those containing isooxazoline compounds - and it may likely be because they enter a cat's bloodstream.
I am also noticing that there are some NON-isooxazoline compounds - ones which also enter a cat's bloodstream that appear to contain warnings about seizures as well.
Any FDA-regulated product must be tested according to strict rules and any company that wants to sell an FDA-regulated product must follow those rules. It has nothing to do with isooxazoline vs.non-isooxazoline.
Merck (the manufacturer of Bravecto) knew the rules going in. If they weren't able to follow the rules they wouldn't have even tried to market the product in the first place. Companies like that have built up multi-million dollar infrastructure... labs, equipment and expert biochemists/pharmacologists... just for following the FDA's rules.
The information we see in the brochures comes from the studies that were done in order to get the products approved. It is the same data that the FDA sees and uses to decide whether or not to approve. Information about side effects, frequency and severity isn't there just for good looks. It's there because it's the real deal.
Just because a product is regulated by the EPA instead of the FDA, it doesn't mean that the rules are any easier. They just focus on different things. The EPA wants to know how toxic things are, how much it takes to cause harm and what the likelihood of environmental damage is.
The EPA might require something more like this:
There are just different sets of rules that have to be followed.
As I originally said, we need to read the information that is available and ask questions of knowledgeable people when we have to make decisions on things like what medicines to take (or give to our cats) or what products to use in or around our houses.
If Casper's vet was to recommend a flea treatment like Bravecto, you can bet dollars to donuts that I'd be raking her over the coals. If she didn't answer my questions to my satisfaction, I would NOT be giving such a medicine to Casper.
We need more vets who are willing to explain things to their clients.
Merck (the manufacturer of Bravecto) knew the rules going in. If they weren't able to follow the rules they wouldn't have even tried to market the product in the first place. Companies like that have built up multi-million dollar infrastructure... labs, equipment and expert biochemists/pharmacologists... just for following the FDA's rules.
The information we see in the brochures comes from the studies that were done in order to get the products approved. It is the same data that the FDA sees and uses to decide whether or not to approve. Information about side effects, frequency and severity isn't there just for good looks. It's there because it's the real deal.
Just because a product is regulated by the EPA instead of the FDA, it doesn't mean that the rules are any easier. They just focus on different things. The EPA wants to know how toxic things are, how much it takes to cause harm and what the likelihood of environmental damage is.
The EPA might require something more like this:
So... No, you can't say that one thing is better (or worse) because it is regulated by the EPA vs. the FDA... or vice-versa.
There are just different sets of rules that have to be followed.
As I originally said, we need to read the information that is available and ask questions of knowledgeable people when we have to make decisions on things like what medicines to take (or give to our cats) or what products to use in or around our houses.
If Casper's vet was to recommend a flea treatment like Bravecto, you can bet dollars to donuts that I'd be raking her over the coals. If she didn't answer my questions to my satisfaction, I would NOT be giving such a medicine to Casper.
We need more vets who are willing to explain things to their clients.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #24
I am somewhat confused by some of your comments. I don't recall suggesting EPA's rules are easier, and did denote that the FDA and the EPA are looking at products from different perspectives. I also don't recall saying that one thing is better (or worse) because of who regulates it.
So, just curious, what would your vet have to tell you to convince you that Bravecto is safe??
The doctor doesn't convince me that medicine is safe.
I convince MYSELF that medicine is safe.
I'm the kind of person who hesitates to take aspirin or cold pills unless I feel like I really need them. If I have a headache, I'll try having something good to eat or taking a cat nap before I take a pill. If the headache doesn't go away in a short time THEN I will think about taking an aspirin. If I have a cold, I probably won't take cold medicine if I am home, by myself. If I have to go to work and I don't want to be all sniffly around my coworkers, I'll take a pill but, otherwise, I just go to bed early and get some rest.
If Casper's vet recommended Bravecto, I would ask her what the medicine is, how it works and why she thinks it's better than another kind of medicine.
I would read the patient brochure and the doctor's prescribing information if I can get it. 90% of the time all of that information is readily available. If I isn't readily available, I'd ask the doctor for it.
I would ask her about side effects and adverse reactions. I would ask her if she's actually seen any cats with these reactions and I would ask her how well those cats recovered from the effects.
I'm a science-minded person by nature. I'm an industrial chemical technician. I understand most of the patient/prescribing information, right off the bat. That kind of information is a lot like the Technical Data Sheets I read on a daily basis, concerning the chemicals I work with.
Since I'm already read-up on a lot of this sort of thing... (not everything but the majority)... I probably already have a good idea of what the answers to my questions will be. I will spend most of my time watching the vet's demeanor and listening to tone of voice.
If my bull**** detectors go off I'll probably tell the vet to go fly a kite.
If the B.S. detectors are quiet, if the vet's reasoning sounds good and the literature reads well, I'll be likely to take the recommendation.
At this point, I see no reason to give Casper ANY flea medicine. He's a 100% indoor cat. My neighbors cats are also indoor cats and they are kept clean so they are less likely to get fleas. Flea season is winding down in my area. Yes, I know that cats can get fleas almost any time of year but, with all the factors in my favor, it is unlikely that Casper will get fleas.
As I said, neither do I like to take unnecessary medicines, myself, nor do I give my cat unnecessary medicines.
So, right now, Bravecto, Advantage or any other flea meds are simply off the table.
I convince MYSELF that medicine is safe.
I'm the kind of person who hesitates to take aspirin or cold pills unless I feel like I really need them. If I have a headache, I'll try having something good to eat or taking a cat nap before I take a pill. If the headache doesn't go away in a short time THEN I will think about taking an aspirin. If I have a cold, I probably won't take cold medicine if I am home, by myself. If I have to go to work and I don't want to be all sniffly around my coworkers, I'll take a pill but, otherwise, I just go to bed early and get some rest.
If Casper's vet recommended Bravecto, I would ask her what the medicine is, how it works and why she thinks it's better than another kind of medicine.
I would read the patient brochure and the doctor's prescribing information if I can get it. 90% of the time all of that information is readily available. If I isn't readily available, I'd ask the doctor for it.
I would ask her about side effects and adverse reactions. I would ask her if she's actually seen any cats with these reactions and I would ask her how well those cats recovered from the effects.
I'm a science-minded person by nature. I'm an industrial chemical technician. I understand most of the patient/prescribing information, right off the bat. That kind of information is a lot like the Technical Data Sheets I read on a daily basis, concerning the chemicals I work with.
Since I'm already read-up on a lot of this sort of thing... (not everything but the majority)... I probably already have a good idea of what the answers to my questions will be. I will spend most of my time watching the vet's demeanor and listening to tone of voice.
If my bull**** detectors go off I'll probably tell the vet to go fly a kite.
If the B.S. detectors are quiet, if the vet's reasoning sounds good and the literature reads well, I'll be likely to take the recommendation.
At this point, I see no reason to give Casper ANY flea medicine. He's a 100% indoor cat. My neighbors cats are also indoor cats and they are kept clean so they are less likely to get fleas. Flea season is winding down in my area. Yes, I know that cats can get fleas almost any time of year but, with all the factors in my favor, it is unlikely that Casper will get fleas.
As I said, neither do I like to take unnecessary medicines, myself, nor do I give my cat unnecessary medicines.
So, right now, Bravecto, Advantage or any other flea meds are simply off the table.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #26
I am exactly the same way. And, I treat my pets in the same manner.
Did that...
Did that...
Did that as well - my vet said he has never seen any neurological adverse reaction in animals who have taken Bravecto, the cases on file are extremely isolated, and he gives Bravecto to his own cats.
I can't say a B.S. detector went off, as I do trust my vet - always have. But, my "I just can't risk it with Feeby" detector went off.
Feeby is 100% indoor cat and we have not had fleas for over 30 years. So, it is my assessment that it can happen at any time - based on current events.
There is no winding down of flea season in my area.
I was an analyst by trade, so I understand the concept of evaluating things from analytical perspective. But, sometimes - just as you mentioned with the B.S. factor - the gut can play a very large role in making an overall decision.
We live in the Great Lakes region. Fleas die off or hibernate in the fall. They aren't very prevalent through the winter and don't come back until spring.
If we keep the cat indoors and keep the house clean, we don't have to worry about fleas very much, at all.
When I was a kid, we had dogs that lived outdoors most of the time. There were times when the dogs would be covered in fleas. Then, they would bring them into the house and the carpets and upholstery would get infested. My parents had a cat that got fleas so bad she started to get anemia. When you walked across the living room carpet, you could see fleas jumping! ICK!
Flea baths & bug bombs all around! It took almost a year to get the house cleaned out!
That's why I act so OCD about fleas and things.
If you keep your house clean and don't let your cats come into contact with fleas, in the first place, you won't have to worry so much about flea medications or their possible side effects.
If we keep the cat indoors and keep the house clean, we don't have to worry about fleas very much, at all.
When I was a kid, we had dogs that lived outdoors most of the time. There were times when the dogs would be covered in fleas. Then, they would bring them into the house and the carpets and upholstery would get infested. My parents had a cat that got fleas so bad she started to get anemia. When you walked across the living room carpet, you could see fleas jumping! ICK!
Flea baths & bug bombs all around! It took almost a year to get the house cleaned out!
That's why I act so OCD about fleas and things.
If you keep your house clean and don't let your cats come into contact with fleas, in the first place, you won't have to worry so much about flea medications or their possible side effects.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #28
I have always kept my house clean and my cat(s) indoors and away from other animals. And, it worked for over 30 years - until now. So, as I said before, apparently it CAN happen to anyone at any time - despite one's diligence.
Yep! You can flip a coin and have it come up heads 99 times in a row but that doesn't mean that it will come up heads on the 100th flip.
The coins chances of coming up one way or another are always 50/50.
The thing that you've got going for you is diligence.
Keeping your eyes peeled lets you catch a problem early, before it gets worse.
Honestly, just use the flea treatment that you know works. Regardless of adverse reactions or anything else, if the treatment that you've been using still works, there isn't any reason to change unless you have to.
The coins chances of coming up one way or another are always 50/50.
The thing that you've got going for you is diligence.
Keeping your eyes peeled lets you catch a problem early, before it gets worse.
Honestly, just use the flea treatment that you know works. Regardless of adverse reactions or anything else, if the treatment that you've been using still works, there isn't any reason to change unless you have to.
