fattening a healthy old cat

[doug36]

I have a 17 year old (indoor) cat that is in great health. Active, attentive, etc. Good coat and appetite. Vet says he's doing great. All numbers are right (though kidney function may be slightly suspect). Six years ago he was pushing 14 lbs, and probably overweight. Now he's 9 lbs, and could use some more flesh. So the question is, what's the right way to help him gain some weight? The usual answer is to feed kitten chow, but I'm kind of mystified. His regular diet is Purina One, which is 37% protein, and 13% fat. The basic kitten chow is almost the same. Huh? Now, Hills is noticeably less nutritious, with 28% protein, and bit more fat.

Now canned food is dramatically  lower in fat and protein, but I assume that's because cats eat more of it. The protein in those is a factor of three lower, and the fat is about a factor of ten lower than the dry food.

So I'd appreciate suggestions of cat foods that have higher levels of protein AND fat. I mean REAL vet-approved cat foods. Maybe a recommendation for a particular affordable kitten chow that has decently high protein and fat numbers?

 

[pinkdagger]

The problem with "vet-approved" cat foods is that they're full of junk. The examples you gave, Purina Chow and Hills both have protein sources that are plant-based, and so cats eat more of it to use less of its nutrition. If you look at the ingredients, you'll see corn, corn gluten, corn gluten meal or soy meal or something else soy - these are part of the guaranteed analysis protein percentage, but they aren't meat-based as obligate carnivores require. In my experience, corn-based foods leave cats hungry because it's in one end and out the other, so they just keep coming back to eat without absorbing good nutrition. You can't just look at and trust numbers on a bag; you really have to dig for where those numbers came from or you'll soon find you're wasting your money.

The way you're comparing canned vs dry food isn't holding them to par though. The reason the protein is so low in canned food's guaranteed analysis is because it's so high in water content. If you calculate it on its dry matter basis, canned food has way more good going for cats than dry food (including the moisture they need, which could be a big deal for a cat with kidney problems - our senior definitely needs a wet diet due to age, low weight, and small kidneys). TCS has an article explaining dry matter basis. You literally remove the water content from the food, and recalculate it:

http://www.thecatsite.com/a/how-to-compare-cat-foods-calculate-carbs-dry-matter-basis

Most wet foods are meat-based, and pates are really just compressed meat, so most brands will have more protein and fat than dry foods anyway. We feed our older cat wet kitten food mixed with adult food (the numbers aren't leaps and bounds of a difference though, even factoring in dry matter basis) three meals a day, as opposed to his previous two meals a day, and he sometimes gets some high quality kibble. If he needs to put on weight, don't just up the fat and protein, you can gradually up the calories on a whole.

For wet food, we feed Wellness, Performatrin, and Friskies. For dry food, we primarily feed Petcurean's Go! I highly, highly recommend that dry food if you can get it, but when it all comes down to it, you can try all sorts of foods for your cat and see if he has a preference.

 

[koolkatz]

If you want to make your cat fatter, protein and fat are not the most important thing, it's just the sheer amount of calories. There's nothing wrong with the food that you eat. There are probably cats eating the same exact food that are a healthy weight. Just feed him more.

Similarly to @pinkdagger  I think that Pates are the best kind of wet food because there's no carb-ish gravy which lowers the actual meat content significantly. Sometimes I'll feed my cats gravy as a treat, but only with their normal pates.

 

[doug36]

Well, this cat has his food dish out all the time. He eats as much as he wants. So giving him more food isn't a solution.

The vet recommended Purina One, and Marty loves the stuff. Now, the protein analysis of that kibble is pretty high. But you're saying that meat protein is better than plant-based protein? Not sure I understand that. Carnivores naturally eat meat simply because it's naturally easier to kill an animal than it is to grind grain and make kibble out of dough. Not because the former is nutritionally better for them than the latter. I've never seen a cat that could make kibble. I have no carnivorous bias against plant protein. That's why respectable analyses don't distinguish between different kinds of protein.

Now, as I said, the issue with kitten food is that the kitten food I saw was, in terms of protein and fat, fairly identical to Purina One. That's correct that if kidney function is an issue, wet food has hydration advantages.

Now for dry food Friskies is 30%/11% protein/fat, Performatrin Ultra for Kittens is 35/21, and Wellness Kitten is 36/17. So only Performatrin is significantly higher (in fat) than Purina One. All are (incrementally) lower in protein.

Yes, I understand that the percentages are by dry weight, so canned food comes out looking low by comparison.

 

[aoi chan]

How the cat been checked for hyperthyroidism?

Finding the reason to your cats' weight loss will help him gain muscle mass. Perhaps an internal specialist can determine the cause.

Gaining weight and gaining back muscle mass are two different things.

 

[doug36]

That's a really good point about hypothyroidism. In fact, Marty is taking one medication, which is Methimazole, for precisely that. His hyperthyroidism was diagnosed a year or two ago, and he's been on it since. It's very likely that's why his weight dropped in the first place. His blood work shows that everything is normal now. So the issue is how to get back some of the weight he lost.

 

[aoi chan]

Is his Total T4 aka T4 in the range of 1.5-2.5?

What's his current weight now?

I personally would feed a meaty moist diet. I don't care much of what the guaranteed analysis says since it only tells you not even half of the percentage of a certain item like fat; it mostly tells you the 'minimums'. I would just look for a dry food in your case that has some kind of animal protein in the first few ingredients. You can probably will find one in those privately owned pet stores instead of petco or petsmart.

It will be really helpful to know how much calories he ate previously to the weigh loss so you know how much to feed him. Another thing you can do is monitor his weight by using a baby scale. Weigh him everyday at the same time to see any fluctuations.

 

[doug36]

Current weight is 9lbs 4 oz. Seems to be dropping slowly. That's certainly not dangerously low, but it is a little worrisome that it isn't increasing.

Really not clear how much he ate previously. Since he was not overweight (well, not that much), we didn't restrict his diet. He likes to eat, BTW. He ADORES licking up juices from a tuna fish can (though he doesn't seem all that interested in the meat, unfortunately!), enjoys a tablespoon a day of fishy wet food, and loves snacks. He's at his kibble dish many times during the day.

I'm a little confused about the importance of "animal" protein. Vegetarians will justifiably swear that vegetable protein is just as nutritious as animal protein. Again, just because animal protein constitutes a wild feline diet doesn't mean that it is best for felines. It just means that it's easiest for them to get. In the wild, you don't hunt kibble.

 

[pinkdagger]

 
Well, this cat has his food dish out all the time. He eats as much as he wants. So giving him more food isn't a solution.

The vet recommended Purina One, and Marty loves the stuff. Now, the protein analysis of that kibble is pretty high. But you're saying that meat protein is better than plant-based protein? Not sure I understand that. Carnivores naturally eat meat simply because it's naturally easier to kill an animal than it is to grind grain and make kibble out of dough. Not because the former is nutritionally better for them than the latter. I've never seen a cat that could make kibble. I have no carnivorous bias against plant protein. That's why respectable analyses don't distinguish between different kinds of protein.

Now, as I said, the issue with kitten food is that the kitten food I saw was, in terms of protein and fat, fairly identical to Purina One. That's correct that if kidney function is an issue, wet food has hydration advantages.

Now for dry food Friskies is 30%/11% protein/fat, Performatrin Ultra for Kittens is 35/21, and Wellness Kitten is 36/17. So only Performatrin is significantly higher (in fat) than Purina One. All are (incrementally) lower in protein.

Yes, I understand that the percentages are by dry weight, so canned food comes out looking low by comparison.

From what I've read, because cats are obligate carnivores, having plant-based proteins in their food and especially in high concentrations isn't necessarily a good thing. Evolutionarily, of course humans who are omnivorous can swear off animal proteins and stick or lean towards a more one-sided diet. Even though our cats are now domesticated, they still have their base dietary needs that have been consistent even through evolution and domestication. There's a lot of information regarding dietary needs in the raw/homecooked forums:

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/263955/helpful-resources-raw-home-cooked-cat-food-forum

For animals like dogs who are carnivores (but not obligatorily), plant-based proteins aren't as big of a deal because their body still uses it efficiently. Cats would normally get their plant nutrition second hand from their prey, whereas habits like eating plants/grass is for roughage and to induce vomiting, rather than for its nutrition. This information actually matched up well with my personal experiences with our older cat, who was insatiably hungry even when free-fed (boyfriend was feeding him Whiskas - which is corn-based - until we moved in together), yet he was still underweight. Once we switched him to a higher quality dry food that had several meats in the highest concentrations of ingredients, not only has he pooped less and needed to eat less, but he's slowly started putting on weight. I have no problem with some plant or plant-based ingredients appearing in pet foods, but our cats at least have been able to better gain and maintain weight with eating less and even saving us money in the long run with meat-based foods.

When you said vet-approved, I assumed you were referring to things like Hills and Royal Canin, since they're frequently sold in vet's offices. Since vets' opinions vary so greatly, some vets might disagree about brands or push the ones they sell. We've never been recommended any specific brands, but we've also never been discouraged when we listed the ones we fed.

I don't have any experience with dry kitten foods, but if you look at something like Wellness Core kitten (wet), the protein is 54% and fat is 34%. Even the canned adult Performatrin formula is about 45% protein and 27% fat, and canned kitten food is 50% protein and 31% fat. @Aoi chan is spot on though - guaranteed analysis lists the minimums for protein and fat, so it could really fluctuate. Since protein and fat isn't always a hard and fast rule, here are some links I find super handy for nutritional and caloric information may help you narrow down some readily available foods for Marty, if you haven't already seen them:

http://www.petobesityprevention.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Cat_Canned_Pouch_Foods.pdf

http://www.petobesityprevention.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Cat_Dry_Food.pdf

http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf

It may be worth supplementing his dry free-fed diet with wet meals if you can entice him. He can get more calories from the dry, and more protein, fat, and moisture from the wet. If we introduce a wet food the cats don't seem into, sometimes we use toppers - just treats that we can crumble over the food to make them more interested in eating it. For us, Pure Bites works really well.

edit; MOAR LINKS!

 

[aoi chan]

Have you checked his thyroid lately? Maybe it needs to be checked.

 

[koolkatz]

High-carb foods will make your cat both happy and overweight. However, it most likely will upset the blood sugar balance of your cat if he eats a lot.

 

[doug36]

His T4 was checked last month. It was OK. I don't have the number handy, but will get it.

As to high card food making cats overweight, well, weight gain is what it's all about here. If he starts to be overweight, we'll happily deal with that situation when it arises.

He eats what he wants to eat when he wants to eat. The trouble is that it isn't enough, or isn't high enough in fat/protein.

 

[oneandahalfcats]

@Doug36: The problem might not be the food that you are feeding, but a lack of reduced ability of your cat to digest fat and protein properly and/or absorb nutrients sufficiently. It is not uncommon for older cats to lose a bit of weight due to these kinds of digestive issues, but its important to rule out an underlying medical problem as a possible cause.

The reason you want to stay away from grain-based foods, is again due to your kitty being older and not having the digestion of a younger cat. For this reason, constipation can be a problem when older cats are fed a grain-based diet. Its best to stick with foods that will cause the least amount of problems. If your cat is willing to eat wet canned food, you might want to try Wellness Grain-free canned varieties which are high in protein and contain liver which is a good source of fat (and protein).  

EDIT: I meant to add that your kitty has reached an amazing age. I would be very happy if mine can achieve the same. You don't say how long you have had this cat, but he either has very good genes, or you and previous owners have obviously done some things right.

 

[peaches08]

Also, one must realize that when doing a nutrient analysis, one must account for dry matter vs moisture.  Canned food looks to be a lower percentage of protein and etc. due to giving the analysis including the moisture.  The real comparable protein/fat/etc percentages should be based on dry matter.

I've seen Fancy Feast canned kitten formulations in several stores, and IIRC they are higher in protein and fat.  These might be worth a try.  There's also better kibbles out there.  The problem with feeding higher carb kibbles to an elderly cat isn't the weight gain.  It's the increased blood sugar destroying the cardiovascular system (and organs that this system perfuses, like the kidneys) and nerves.  Remember, cats often do not show symptoms of renal damage until something like 75% of their kidneys are destroyed. 

 

[doug36]

Yes, certainly older cats often lose weight. And yes, that makes some sense about him eating enough but not digesting it well. His teeth are in good shape, which probably is due to him eating mostly kibble, but I'm giving him an evening meal of wet food which he likes a lot. That's to increase hydration, in case of kidney problems (though he likes to drink water). I'll look into that Wellness brand food.

 

[aoi chan]

Have you checked his B12 levels?

Eating dry food has nothing to do with having his teeth in good shape. Most cats don't even chew, but just swallow their food. Their teeth are made to shred meat.

 

[doug36]

My vet is adamant that dry food keeps teeth cleaner. But she also thinks that wet food (really ANY wet food) is better nutritionally. Also, I'd be surprised if there isn't a lot of chewing going on. He makes a racket when he's into his kibble. You don't make loud crunching sounds by just swallowing kibble. Certainly the canines aren't used to chew kibble, but the molars do.

Also, his T4 is 2.6. (I looked it up.) That's borderline normal. Vet is happy with it.

Now, we called our vet to ask about gaining weight (neglected to earlier), and she said that although he was in great shape, his kidneys were (as I said above) kind of borderline. That can have this effect. We're going to put him on a simple med for that. Didn't get the name. Calicum somthing-ate, squirt in his mouth twice a week. That is, I understand, less to fix the problem and more to keep it from getting worse.

 

[peaches08]

 
My vet is adamant that dry food keeps teeth cleaner. But she also thinks that wet food (really ANY wet food) is better nutritionally. Also, I'd be surprised if there isn't a lot of chewing going on. He makes a racket when he's into his kibble. You don't make loud crunching sounds by just swallowing kibble. Certainly the canines aren't used to chew kibble, but the molars do.

Also, his T4 is 2.6. (I looked it up.) That's borderline normal. Vet is happy with it.

Now, we called our vet to ask about gaining weight (neglected to earlier), and she said that although he was in great shape, his kidneys were (as I said above) kind of borderline. That can have this effect. We're going to put him on a simple med for that. Didn't get the name. Calicum somthing-ate, squirt in his mouth twice a week. That is, I understand, less to fix the problem and more to keep it from getting worse.

Calcium carbonate?  It might help to give us the cat's lab work.  I'm surprised and saddened that a vet is advising meds without re-evaluating the diet.  Kidney problems + meds can lead to a bad situation.

2.6 is out of range from what I've seen.  But then again, I've seen different labs use different ranges.  The lab that reported this figure, what is their range?

For what it's worth, cat's don't clean their teeth with dry kibble.It's a common myth, but a myth nonetheless.  Cats don't clean their teeth by chewing kibble any more than I can chomping on potato chips.

 

[doug36]

2.6 is out of range from what I've seen.  But then again, I've seen different labs use different ranges.  The lab that reported this figure, what is their range? 

That's what I pay my vet to assess.

 For what it's worth, cat's don't clean their teeth with dry kibble.It's a common myth, but a myth nonetheless.  Cats don't clean their teeth by chewing kibble any more than I can chomping on potato chips.

Try chomping on something harder (and more nutritious) than potato chips. As I said, I can hear it being chewed. So at least in my cat, there is indeed some abrasive action going on. Vets sell teeth cleaning, and when my vet tells me that dry food will help prevent what I'd pay her to do, I take that seriously.

 I'm surprised and saddened that a vet is advising meds without re-evaluating the diet.  Kidney problems + meds can lead to a bad situation.

Well, again, the vet isn't advising meds without having an understanding of the diet. I never said she was.

 

[aoi chan]

I think you put your vet on such high pedestal and everything that she says is correct. They make mistakes too you know. The only way a cats' teeth is going to be clean is by brushing them. Your vet is wrong to say that dry food cleans their teeth. She is doing a disservice to you by saying that.

The thyroid number can be a wee bit lower.

I think you should join the yahoo group feline-hyperT. They are very knowledgeable.