Experience with unusually hyper, boisterous cat?

[Anne2021]

I am curious whether anyone who has had a particularly hyper, boisterous cat could share the long-term picture of how things played out. I have shared about my situation before and gotten some good answers and perspectives. I am looking for whether more people have had this issue and if their cats ever changed. To try to make it short, I adopted a cat more than two years old last fall. I am probably going to start the process of re-homing her, but it is hard emotionally. She is excessively hyper and boisterous and all efforts to curb the way she treats my other two-year-old have failed. She is not aggressive in a claws-out, biting way, but she will not stop jumping on her and forcibly wrestling her. It is having a very detrimental effect on my other cat and I can't continue to subject her to this. I am coming to the conclusion that this is simply her personality and not something that can be trained or medicated away without harming her quality of life. My question is - for those who have had such a cat - did the way they treat other household cats ever substantially improve - as in not just that they got less playful eventually or that they got really old, but that they were able to actually learn boundaries and respect them.

I love this crazy cat, but it appears that she can't comprehend boundaries. I am looking for advice from people who have had a cat like I've described - not just a young cat or a kitten who needs time to mature - but the kind of cat that make a seasoned cat lover say - whoa - I have never met a cat like this before. The kind of cat that makes you wonder if it grew up with large-breed puppies or has some dog DNA mixed in there, (without a dog-like propensity to receive training). (Note: I have had a lot of cats and been around them almost all my life so I am not unfamiliar with cat issues or new to cats in any way - she is very, very different).

 

[ArtNJ]

Its pretty normal for young cats not to respect boundaries or take no for an answer. *Usually* cats slow down a decent bit at some point before two, but its highly variable. And usually at around the same time, they start being a bit better about taking no for an answer from other cats. No telling exactly when your cat will slow down or how much. Some people on here have far older cats that are still *very* active and can be a PITA to other cats that dont want to play.

Generally speaking, these types of issues aren't too bad over the long run, especially when the cat that doesn't want to play is still young as yours is. But of course there are exceptions where the stress is quite bad indeed. You said "very detrimental effect" -- exactly what do you mean?

 

[Anne2021]

Its pretty normal for young cats not to respect boundaries or take no for an answer. *Usually* cats slow down a decent bit at some point before two, but its highly variable. And usually at around the same time, they start being a bit better about taking no for an answer from other cats. No telling exactly when your cat will slow down or how much. Some people on here have far older cats that are still *very* active and can be a PITA to other cats that dont want to play.

Generally speaking, these types of issues aren't too bad over the long run, especially when the cat that doesn't want to play is still young as yours is. But of course there are exceptions where the stress is quite bad indeed. You said "very detrimental effect" -- exactly what do you mean?

Thank you for your response, ArtNJ.

My other cat, Josie, is behaving differently. It is hard to describe, but my adult son notices it, too. She is on edge. She hisses at my two seniors out of the blue when she has had time around Bailey (the hyper cat). She and the seniors get along fine when I segregate Bailey. Josie has been initiating warning behavior to Bailey - hissing at her when she walks past her and swatting at her to warn her to leave her alone. That in and of itself isn't "bad" if it didn't have to be done repeatedly whenever they are together and if it made a difference, but it doesn't work. So over and over again every time they are out together, the cycle goes - Josie sees Bailey - due to what she can expect is coming, Josie warns her off - Bailey rolls on her back with her tummy in the air like she surrenders (Bailey does not fear Josie at all) - Josie walks away - as soon as Bailey can find an opportunity or if she is bored - she jumps on Josie, sometimes stalking first. Josie screams and runs away as soon as she can get away (Josie is 9.3 lbs and Bailey is 11.2 lbs) - sometimes seeking shelter near me. (I even saw her seek shelter behind one of the seniors last week). Josie is not willing, however, to become a total victim, so she keeps trying to stand her ground when necessary. Saturday night Bailey jumped on and held her down in such a fashion that I had to intervene to stop it. The only way I could describe it to my son was a cheetah taking down an antelope - so I Google image'd it - it was a near-perfect image. Josie spends time in what I call her "neutral position" where she is behind a couch near a hallway near the top of the stairs so she can keep an eye on what's going on without being vulnerable. She never did this before Bailey. I've noticed that when she is stressed, the hair between her eyes and ears seems to stand up by being more horizontal than down against her head. That is happening more and more. It makes her look disheveled. She has slept with me since she was a kitten. I sleep in a queen bed (no other humans or cats) and she always slept on the pillow on the other side of the bed. Now she has started curling up between my legs every night. She got an ear infection last fall when Bailey first arrived and all of this started. It took two weeks of meds to eradicate it and there was no obvious cause (including picking something up from Bailey, whose ears were found to be clean by the vet). She is scratching more and more in the last week and if it keeps up I will be taking her in again. She has not had a history of this happening and was a very healthy, relaxed, confident cat. She is not relaxed anymore.

I have a lot of experience with cats and kittens. This isn't like that. That is why I tried to explain this is unusual.

 

[ArtNJ]

So basically what I call the "guard duty" phase. She thinks she has to be on constant guard duty and can't relax. And this has been going on since the fall, or last fall (ie over a year?) If its over a year, I agree thats a really long time for a cat to have to be on guard duty, and I totally understand thinking its not fair to your scared cat with no clear end in sight. If its just since this fall, well, sometimes these things do take a fair amount of time. Usually not so much with a two year old, but older cats sometimes do take many months to get closer to tolerating a younger hyper cat that wont take no for an answer -- I call it the long slow road to toleration.

There is no way I really know to speed up the adjustment, but you can certainly give breaks no and then, closed door affection and what not.

 

[Anne2021]

Its pretty normal for young cats not to respect boundaries or take no for an answer. *Usually* cats slow down a decent bit at some point before two, but its highly variable. And usually at around the same time, they start being a bit better about taking no for an answer from other cats. No telling exactly when your cat will slow down or how much. Some people on here have far older cats that are still *very* active and can be a PITA to other cats that dont want to play.

Generally speaking, these types of issues aren't too bad over the long run, especially when the cat that doesn't want to play is still young as yours is. But of course there are exceptions where the stress is quite bad indeed. You said "very detrimental effect" -- exactly what do you mean?

Also, Josie is playful and very much wants to play. It has been heartbreaking to watch the development of the relationship as she tried to engage Bailey and was abused over and over again. She wants to play and would even play chase - what she doesn't want is to be repeatedly body-slammed. And Bailey is probably actually a little older than Josie.

 

[Anne2021]

So basically what I call the "guard duty" phase. She thinks she has to be on constant guard duty and can't relax. And this has been going on since the fall, or last fall (ie over a year?) If its over a year, I agree thats a really long time for a cat to have to be on guard duty, and I totally understand thinking its not fair to your scared cat with no clear end in sight. If its just since this fall, well, sometimes these things do take a fair amount of time. Usually not so much with a two year old, but older cats sometimes do take many months to get closer to tolerating a younger hyper cat that wont take no for an answer -- I call it the long slow road to toleration.

There is no way I really know to speed up the adjustment, but you can certainly give breaks no and then, closed door affection and what not.

It has been since October 2021. I have been consulting with a qualified cat behaviorist and she knows the situation in much greater detail than I can share here. We have tried behavior modification and other steps to deal with the environment. She has admitted that it may require gabapentin and/or Prozac. She has also admitted that it may require re-homing. I don't want to drug a cat that just needs to be in a one-cat household where she can be herself. I do appreciate your thoughts. I really was hoping, though, to hear from people who have had an exceptionally boisterous cat to hear first-hand how it played out. I have heard from two people here in the past whose cats didn't really get less hyper for many years.

I really am saying this after a long experience with many cats. Generally speaking, I know cats and kittens well, but this is past approaching the situation as though it were on the typical spectrum. Also, I don't think a healthy cat would ever get to a point of tolerating being ambushed and body-slammed over and over again every day and still be a healthy cat. That seems like the cat on the receiving end of that would have to simply give up and accept that no one will step in and stop the mistreatment. That can't be good for such a cat, even if they learn to accept that being bullied is their lot in life.

 

[Timmer]

Anne, I went through this years ago with a female resident cat and a bengal male I adopted. I was so in love with him...and her! It never got better. I ended up building a crazy door at the top of my second floor to keep them separated. One lived upstairs and the other downstairs. I would swap them out daily and they would take turns sleeping with me. But it never improved. He would shoot off after her like she was a little baby bunny or something and the poor thing never stood a chance against him. I tried everything. The door allowed us to live together, and we did for 8 years until he got lymphoma and passed away. The day I got home without him, I took the door down. I will never go through that again. It was not fair to my resident cat and very selfish of me. I regretted that I put her through that and spent the rest of our time together treating her like a queen. Sometimes we want these situations to work out and they just don't. That's my story.

 

[neely]

Not exactly the same but in the many years of living with cats something similar has happened to us. I won't make it a long story with a lot of details but as Timmer posted we also kept two cats separated until the newcomer passed away. It was not easy and we felt stressed for eventually separating them but the stress it caused the cats to be together was heartbreaking for us as well. We tried and tried to supervise picking a time when they were tired out but unfortunately the resident cat never accepted the new guy. We felt so bad for the new guy and couldn't part with him so keeping them separated was the best solution.

A Anne2021 Every situation is different and unique so you have to do what you feel in your heart is best for you and your cats. Please keep us updated if you can. Best of luck!

 

[Anne2021]

Anne, I went through this years ago with a female resident cat and a bengal male I adopted. I was so in love with him...and her! It never got better. I ended up building a crazy door at the top of my second floor to keep them separated. One lived upstairs and the other downstairs. I would swap them out daily and they would take turns sleeping with me. But it never improved. He would shoot off after her like she was a little baby bunny or something and the poor thing never stood a chance against him. I tried everything. The door allowed us to live together, and we did for 8 years until he got lymphoma and passed away. The day I got home without him, I took the door down. I will never go through that again. It was not fair to my resident cat and very selfish of me. I regretted that I put her through that and spent the rest of our time together treating her like a queen. Sometimes we want these situations to work out and they just don't. That's my story.

Timmer, thank you so much for sharing this. This is just the kind of situation that I was inquiring about. Your description of shooting off after her like she was a baby bunny struck a chord with me. That would be another good metaphor for what is happening here. I don't want to put Josie through a lifetime of household division. To be honest, I think the constant stress might shorten my life, too. I know there have to be better situations out there for Bailey, too; I'm just so afraid she will end up somewhere worse instead of better. Just out of curiosity since it's the last thing out there that I haven't tried and I don't hold out much hope for it helping, did you ever try any kind of medication for your bengal male?

 

[Anne2021]

Not exactly the same but in the many years of living with cats something similar has happened to us. I won't make it a long story with a lot of details but as Timmer posted we also kept two cats separated until the newcomer passed away. It was not easy and we felt stressed for eventually separating them but the stress it caused the cats to be together was heartbreaking for us as well. We tried and tried to supervise picking a time when they were tired out but unfortunately the resident cat never accepted the new guy. We felt so bad for the new guy and couldn't part with him so keeping them separated was the best solution.

A Anne2021 Every situation is different and unique so you have to do what you feel in your heart is best for you and your cats. Please keep us updated if you can. Best of luck!

neely, thank you for sharing this. I appreciate it. We are currently doing different scenarios of division and segregation throughout the day and it is exhausting and stressful. The cats all hate closed doors and gates and get antsy. You know, I've had a lot of advice from many sources to tire Bailey out. I get why they say it, but it doesn't work with her. She seems to need more stimulation, but when she gets it, she can get so amped up she's worse and more prone to zoom around and jump all over Josie. It's a double-edged sword and it doesn't really tire her out either. She's always ready to go if there is anyone or anything that makes a noise or moves. She'll jump up from a nap at a moment's notice. Thank you for the kind words.

 

[scoutandmaxine]

I had this problem when I first brought Maxine home. She was 2 years old. And my older cat was not pleased. The main problem being that Maxine is extremely high energy and she would chase Scout and basically terrorise her. It took 6 months of a very strict routine, where I would switch their spaces and I also woke up earlier every morning specifically to play with Maxine. Scout played her part too. She originally ran in fear and anger, but did make attempts to stand her ground and bop bop bop Maxine on the head. Every time Max would chase after Scout, I would remove her and take her to the basement and basically redirect her attention to playtime. It took about 6 months of this for Max to finally stop chasing Scout. She still had dominant behaviors, like excessively grooming scout and Scout would simply bop her and she eventually learned that she was not getting the reaction from her that she wanted. Now they coexist completely fine and Maxine never bothers her. I do still have to maintain a constant playtime schedule with Max bc of her high energy but it is good for both of us, I think. Every morning and every night before bed, I make sure to play with her. And the best part is that Scout joins in on the playtime fun and Max will sit quietly while waiting her turn. So thankfully for us, it worked out just fine. But I do remember being in a position where I was not sure max would stay bc of the stress on scout. I am sooo glad that I stuck it out bc I can't imagine life without her now. That's my story. Good luck, I hope everything works out for you and your kitties. I know it is not at all an easy decision.

 

[Timmer]

Timmer, thank you so much for sharing this. This is just the kind of situation that I was inquiring about. Your description of shooting off after her like she was a baby bunny struck a chord with me. That would be another good metaphor for what is happening here. I don't want to put Josie through a lifetime of household division. To be honest, I think the constant stress might shorten my life, too. I know there have to be better situations out there for Bailey, too; I'm just so afraid she will end up somewhere worse instead of better. Just out of curiosity since it's the last thing out there that I haven't tried and I don't hold out much hope for it helping, did you ever try any kind of medication for your bengal male?

Hi, Yes, I had Timmer on Prozac for some time and it didn't do anything and then Lupita, my girl started spraying all over the house, the windows, everything, from the stress. So I put her on Prozac and took him off it. She was on it for about a year and things with the spraying settled down, but between them never improved to where they could share space. It was weird, but it ended up that if she would run and hide under the bed or dresser, he would leave her alone. Of course I was in the room with them. He was perfectly capable of going after her under the bed but he didn't. But the second she would be brave and come out, he would shoot after her. That's no way to live. I truly wish I wouldn't have kept him but I was so deeply attached to him. We had this soul connection and, well, I paid the price for it and so did Lupita.
I know we are afraid that the cats won't get a good home but maybe the reality is there are more good people out there who are looking for the right cat and the chances are great they will get a good home. I mean, I have a lot of cat friends and we are all crazy in love with our cats.
And not every cat needs a second cat in the house. You do what you think is the right thing to do. I don't know how long you have been working at this, but I can tell you truthfully, living like this for eight years made me a nervous wreck. I lost a lot of sleep over it, particularly nights I wouldn't let him sleep with me and he would scream his head off at night. Oh, not good.

 

[Anne2021]

Hi, Yes, I had Timmer on Prozac for some time and it didn't do anything and then Lupita, my girl started spraying all over the house, the windows, everything, from the stress. So I put her on Prozac and took him off it. She was on it for about a year and things with the spraying settled down, but between them never improved to where they could share space. It was weird, but it ended up that if she would run and hide under the bed or dresser, he would leave her alone. Of course I was in the room with them. He was perfectly capable of going after her under the bed but he didn't. But the second she would be brave and come out, he would shoot after her. That's no way to live. I truly wish I wouldn't have kept him but I was so deeply attached to him. We had this soul connection and, well, I paid the price for it and so did Lupita.
I know we are afraid that the cats won't get a good home but maybe the reality is there are more good people out there who are looking for the right cat and the chances are great they will get a good home. I mean, I have a lot of cat friends and we are all crazy in love with our cats.
And not every cat needs a second cat in the house. You do what you think is the right thing to do. I don't know how long you have been working at this, but I can tell you truthfully, living like this for eight years made me a nervous wreck. I lost a lot of sleep over it, particularly nights I wouldn't let him sleep with me and he would scream his head off at night. Oh, not good.

Thank you for this reply, Timmer. I am sorry that I didn't respond sooner. Life has been hectic here. What you said has helped me weigh things. I don't want to live like that. I think it is a distinct likelihood given Bailey's personality.

My daughter has been offering off and on to take Bailey for a little while to give me a break and so I can make my decision with a clearer mind. She has a senior cat that I don't think should be subjected to Bailey so it was just a short-term situation for a few days where she could keep them separated. Last Saturday, when she offered again, I took her up on it and she took Bailey. I had been wondering how Josie would respond to her absence. It was immediate and obvious. She was relaxed and "at home" again. She didn't spend one minute in what I call her "neutral position" or what ArtNJ likened to "guard duty". After two days, she and the senior cats were relating more like they used to with the tension in the house gone. Josie was herself again in ways that I haven't seen for five months. It's what I needed to know.

So, I told my daughter to bring her back and she did last night. Josie saw her in the cat carrier when my daughter brought her in and as soon as she recognized her, she ran under the couch. I got up the nerve and filled out the the online intake form at the local no-kill shelter. I got their response today, but it is disheartening. First, she told me all the things that everybody says - Bailey should slow down soon (don't think so), play with her more, buy her battery-operated toys. Ugh. Like I haven't tried everything. She said I could put her on the waiting list, but that it could be weeks to months. Okay. Then she told me that if she can't get along with other cats she would be in a small room alone without anyone having time to play with her much for as long as it takes to get adopted. And - that with the blip on her health record - mild right-sided heart enlargement not needing any treatment - a lot of people won't want to adopt her. Then she suggested I try to find her a new home. Where will I find people if they can't? Not what I was hoping to hear. I have read on their site before about cats being in foster care in special situations while they try to get them adopted. I wish a different volunteer had gotten my information. Maybe it would have gone better. I can put her on the waiting list.

Josie is not happy that she is back. Neither am I. It took so much to come to this decision that the wind has just kind of gone out of my sails. Taking her to a shelter or humane society that is not "no-kill" with the information I would have to give them puts her at high risk of being put down, I think. There is no relief at this point and I am wondering if I should put her on the list and try medication at the same time. I want my life back and so do my cats (I think).

 

[Anne2021]

I had this problem when I first brought Maxine home. She was 2 years old. And my older cat was not pleased. The main problem being that Maxine is extremely high energy and she would chase Scout and basically terrorise her. It took 6 months of a very strict routine, where I would switch their spaces and I also woke up earlier every morning specifically to play with Maxine. Scout played her part too. She originally ran in fear and anger, but did make attempts to stand her ground and bop bop bop Maxine on the head. Every time Max would chase after Scout, I would remove her and take her to the basement and basically redirect her attention to playtime. It took about 6 months of this for Max to finally stop chasing Scout. She still had dominant behaviors, like excessively grooming scout and Scout would simply bop her and she eventually learned that she was not getting the reaction from her that she wanted. Now they coexist completely fine and Maxine never bothers her. I do still have to maintain a constant playtime schedule with Max bc of her high energy but it is good for both of us, I think. Every morning and every night before bed, I make sure to play with her. And the best part is that Scout joins in on the playtime fun and Max will sit quietly while waiting her turn. So thankfully for us, it worked out just fine. But I do remember being in a position where I was not sure max would stay bc of the stress on scout. I am sooo glad that I stuck it out bc I can't imagine life without her now. That's my story. Good luck, I hope everything works out for you and your kitties. I know it is not at all an easy decision.

Thank you for your reply, scoutandmaxine. I'm sorry I did not respond right after you wrote. When I first read your comment, it made me smile when you said, "Scout played her part too. She originally ran in fear and anger, but did make attempts to stand her ground and bop bop bop Maxine on the head." The "bop bop bop" is just what Josie has done. When Bailey first came, the first six weeks, Josie tried to keep an open mind and would gently reach out and push her head down. After that she got more self-defense oriented and started the bopping - still gently. Now she just hisses and tries to intimidate Bailey proactively so that Bailey will stay away from her. It doesn't really work due at least in part to the size difference.

I wrote a reply to Timmer today with an update. It's not going well. Thank you so much for your understanding and for weighing in.

 

[Timmer]

Anne, you are being so brave right now and so kind and caring. I don't know if it helps but I'm going through the same thing with my cat Razzle who is very aggressive. I got her and Fiona at the same time. It's not working out but I will hang in there for a bit longer. I mean, it was working out until a stray came up on our porch two weeks ago.....
Honestly, I have adopted cats with health issues. To me, it's about connecting with the cat. I know it can be expensive if meds are involved but it sounds like Bailey isn't.
Sounds like you are doing the best you can with the waiting list. I really commend you for being strong and doing this. You really are putting Josie first. The shelters always say if it doesn't work out, we will take them back, but I don't think they really want to and your experience tells me so. Hang in there! You're doing really well with the situation. And maybe you can find a smaller organization who will take the cat. We have several where I live. You just have to dig around.

 

[Anne2021]

Anne, you are being so brave right now and so kind and caring. I don't know if it helps but I'm going through the same thing with my cat Razzle who is very aggressive. I got her and Fiona at the same time. It's not working out but I will hang in there for a bit longer. I mean, it was working out until a stray came up on our porch two weeks ago.....
Honestly, I have adopted cats with health issues. To me, it's about connecting with the cat. I know it can be expensive if meds are involved but it sounds like Bailey isn't.
Sounds like you are doing the best you can with the waiting list. I really commend you for being strong and doing this. You really are putting Josie first. The shelters always say if it doesn't work out, we will take them back, but I don't think they really want to and your experience tells me so. Hang in there! You're doing really well with the situation. And maybe you can find a smaller organization who will take the cat. We have several where I live. You just have to dig around.

Timmer, thank you so much for your encouragement. On the one hand, yes, it helps to know someone else is going through the same thing, but on the other hand, I'm so sorry you are having to go through it again. To be honest, this has made me wonder if I will ever be able to adopt another cat. I would definitely need to know more information first.

I have been working so hard to keep them separate and then today - less than 48 hours after she has been back - I had them briefly in the same room while I was supervising closely to keep Bailey in line around Josie. Mostly they are separated, but my house layout makes it difficult, so when Josie wants in if I happen to be in the room where Bailey is, it's hard to keep ignoring her. So I let her in and was watching. Then I had a short phone call and wouldn't you know it - a minute or two of distraction - and she jumped on Josie and got things started again. She just can't help herself. It's all just more confirmation at this point, but we didn't even make it two days of me keeping them segregated completely because that's so stressful, too.

Yeah, Bailey's "health issue" is not an issue right now, if ever. She pants so much and so hard when she is excited, stressed, or plays hard (like REALLY hard). I was worried when I first got her and now I regret going in to get it checked out. Her x-ray showed mild heart enlargement so I got the echocardiogram. The vet who did it is one of only two in my rather large city who does it so I don't know how good she is. She said the left side is easily diagnosed objectively with measurements, but the right side is more subjectively interpreted. The left was good, but she thought the right side looked mildly dilated. She said that right-sided issues aren't usually cardiac origin and could be of pulmonary origin with cardiac effect, like maybe asthma or something else she couldn't remember the name of (because she hadn't had her coffee yet, she joked). I was clear with her that Bailey does not cough or wheeze and recovers quickly from the panting as soon as she chills out. She even showed me an actual x-ray on the screen that showed a cat with asthma and how it differed from Bailey's x-ray which was completely normal and not suspicious for any pulmonary issues. Then she said she suspects asthma and marked it on the chart (?!?!) . Great. All because she had nothing else to put there? That will follow Bailey, too. I don't think for a minute she has asthma.

I did email today to confirm that I would like the shelter to put her on the waiting list. So, we shall see. I never saw this coming when I picked her up the day I adopted her. If someone who knew her as well as I know her now had written up a description of her personality, I would have given a hearty chuckle and said - no way - no how - I could never handle that - and I would have moved on.

I hope things get better for you soon.

 

[Timmer]

I feel your pain. Because of Covid, when I got my 2 I wasn't allowed to interact with them at the shelter. When I went to get them and we went over the histories, both had issues. What is always so vague with these shelters is whether the cats get along with other cats. I guess if the person who turned them in didn't know, then there's no background info. My Fiona was taken from a cat hoarding house. She's had a hard life and I want her life to be the best now. Razzle was kept outside most of the time. I don't know why but I wonder if Bailey was an indoor/outdoor cat? They seem to react to other cats like they are all outside, and they have to guard or protect territory, so they go after anything that moves. I've noticed when Razzle plays with a feather toy she will hold it in her mouth and walk around with it, like it's a bird she caught. I think that's kind of good and may help with her need to hunt. I got her these Jackson Galaxy kicker toys and she loves those and beats them up constantly.

I'm trying some positive reinforcement training now. Getting them together with treats and that works. Distracting Razzle with a wand toy when I see her eyes focus on Fiona. And I started closing all downstairs blinds at night, so they can't see who is prowling around. That has worked as far as the night time goes. I've always been weak when it comes tp putting a cat in a room. Doesn't Bailey meow to get out?

Your situation sounds a lot like mine that I had about 5 years ago with two cats I had. I ended up building a door at the top of my second floor and one cat lived up and the other down. I will never do that again as long as I live. Both of those cats have passed on...

Who knows, maybe lots of cats will be adopted and Bailey will be able to be taken in soon.
Keep us posted!

 

[Anne2021]

I feel your pain. Because of Covid, when I got my 2 I wasn't allowed to interact with them at the shelter. When I went to get them and we went over the histories, both had issues. What is always so vague with these shelters is whether the cats get along with other cats. I guess if the person who turned them in didn't know, then there's no background info. My Fiona was taken from a cat hoarding house. She's had a hard life and I want her life to be the best now. Razzle was kept outside most of the time. I don't know why but I wonder if Bailey was an indoor/outdoor cat? They seem to react to other cats like they are all outside, and they have to guard or protect territory, so they go after anything that moves. I've noticed when Razzle plays with a feather toy she will hold it in her mouth and walk around with it, like it's a bird she caught. I think that's kind of good and may help with her need to hunt. I got her these Jackson Galaxy kicker toys and she loves those and beats them up constantly.

I'm trying some positive reinforcement training now. Getting them together with treats and that works. Distracting Razzle with a wand toy when I see her eyes focus on Fiona. And I started closing all downstairs blinds at night, so they can't see who is prowling around. That has worked as far as the night time goes. I've always been weak when it comes tp putting a cat in a room. Doesn't Bailey meow to get out?

Your situation sounds a lot like mine that I had about 5 years ago with two cats I had. I ended up building a door at the top of my second floor and one cat lived up and the other down. I will never do that again as long as I live. Both of those cats have passed on...

Who knows, maybe lots of cats will be adopted and Bailey will be able to be taken in soon.
Keep us posted!

COVID had an effect on my choice of Bailey, too. I was allowed to make an appointment and visit with three cats. I got about six minutes each. In the past, we could walk around and look at them in their little enclosures and get a feel for the cat. That's how I ended up with Josie. She and her sister were together and one of them was so endearing through the barrier. They looked so much alike that I'm still not sure that Josie was the one that drew me in, but I think it was her. My son and I met them both. Josie was perfect for us. I hated that I only had the online pictures and descriptions to go on with Bailey. And my son ended up not being able to come with me because I had to make an appointment and he forgot to tell me that he had a test at that time outside his normal college schedule. I should not have chosen alone. He was instrumental in helping pick Josie. There was also no pressure of making the appointment before COVID. I could stop in and look around and if no one stood out, I could go home and try another day.

I think you are onto something with the cat's history of being outdoors. I adopted Bailey October 1. She was picked up late July as a stray and estimated to be two years old. No history. No idea how long she was surviving on her own. I have started to think that cats that have been living on their own interact differently with other cats. That territory issue seems stronger, and the chasing whatever moves, but there also seems to be a lot of anxiety with Bailey over competition for resources - like she won't get her needs met. I've been letting her gain weight at a terrible pace because she wants to stress eat and seems very anxious when there isn't food in the bowl. Bailey does the thing of walking away with a toy bird or mouse in her mouth, as does Josie. Aren't they so cute when they do that? They seem so serious about it. (Actually, I think Josie was doing it more when Bailey was playing, too. Probably competition kicking in). But Bailey plays differently. There is a desperation. If I play with a wand toy with her and go too long without letting her catch it and sit on it or carry it away, she starts panting and looking stressed. I described it in one of my first posts here as her "playing" as though the fate of the feline species depends on it. I don't know what she went through on her own - cat fights? hunger? running from predators? (we have coyotes in our city) - and I really feel for her. She seems intimidated by the bigger, older cats and like Josie is a toy or prey (though she never uses teeth or claws on Josie). She can't have been feral, though, because she wants attention from humans. She doesn't really like to be held for long or cuddled, but she will easily purr when you pet her and she relaxes in your arms when being carried room to room and likes me to massage her behind the ears. Her paws go out in the air like she is kneading.

When she first came, she was what I've heard some call a door-dasher. I thought she was going to escape whenever I went inside or out. That changed, though. I think generally she knows that life is better inside here than what she had before. She doesn't meow to go out. I took in a stray once (Pumpkin) that was hanging out at my parents where they lived in a small town where there are frequently strays. (We did try and failed to find an owner). She could not be kept inside. She was relentless about going out and meowed the most awful, annoying demand. Then she would come back and wait outside when she wanted in. She was an amazing hunter, bringing things back home. I think she thought of us as room and board. She was friendly, but didn't really want to bond. We had her for almost three years and she spent almost two of that with us after we got Stormy at 8-9 weeks old. Stormy wanted to bond with her and she just didn't want to. There was some playing, but very little. She had her outdoor life. It scared me to let her out, but she would have been miserable and intolerable otherwise. She would have been a candidate for what the humane society calls the working cat program - the cats that want to be outside and hunt and can't be happy changed into indoor-only cats. So after some neighbors took her to the humane society once and other neighbors mentioned she was scratching their young trees and agitating their indoor cats by getting too close to their patio doors too often, we found her a home on 11 acres where the people wanted a working cat. I hope she did well. I think that was hard on my son, but he didn't speak up about it at the time and only mentioned it years later, which grieves me. All three of my current cats were brought in as kittens - 8-9 weeks; 4 months; and 10 weeks. They do so much better at establishing indoor cat community. I do think the ones that have spent time outdoors have a different way of interacting with other cats for sure.

I hate this all the way around. There is no good answer. It is taking up so much of my time and mental and emotional energy. I have been job-hunting for a while and I know it is slowing the process down on my end because I can't focus.