European Maine Coons: Is A Nose Bump A Deal-breaker?

MistyDawn

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I've been looking at the TICA breed standard as my hunt for the perfect girl continues, and I was also looking at Alaska for show potential. Alaska has a lot going for him. There's just one problem. I've seen that nose bumps are, well, bad news. Alaska has developed a pretty major one. I'm wondering if the penalty for this be cancelled out by his good bone structure and square muzzle enough to make him a viable competitor in the ring. What do you think?

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I have a couple of different people I'm talking to about showing, mentors, if you will, that seem to disagree. One says it's pretty bad and we should try and get a kitten out of him with no nose bump, and show that kitten. The other, who only has a couple of years of experience, says that since the European has been popularized moreso now, and since nose bumps are more common on them, it isn't a big deal and would be overlooked for his better features, especially since it's not too visible if you're not looking very closely, as you can see in the first picture.

What do you guys think?
 
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MistyDawn

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I hope this isn't a bother. I'm not trying to spam you guys with threads about him. I wasn't gonna post more pictures for awhile, but this was something I wanted critique on, because time to show him is drawing near and I wanna know if we even stand a chance, or if I should even breed him.
 

abyeb

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I’m not an expert, but the TICA breed standard says that nose bumps are a penalty, not a disqualification. You can try showing him and see how he does. His other features look great to me (but again, I don’t have a trained cat show judge eye), so that could make up for lost points.
 

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It can't hurt to show him and get opinions from judges. The judges I know are usually willing to talk to owners about their cats, after they've judged them.
 
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MistyDawn

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He is only 7 months. As we all know, their heads faces are changing into their adult shape at this age. This is probably a long shot, but is there any chance that he may lose it, or, less hopelessly, that his head getting larger and fluffier, as a male's head tends to do, may make it seem less dramatic, at least?

And for a 7 month old, he has a perfect coat with a nice ruff already starting. His coat, ears, and eyes, all including set, fit the breed standard to a "T". His nose is his one Achilles heel. He also has size going for him. He hit 15 pounds this weekend, and does not seem to be slowing down at all. He's overtaken my 4-year-old half MC as second heaviest cat in the house. Now he has to overtake my 19lb black, short-haired moggie 8-year-old (We don't know why he's that big. He isn't overweight. He's solid muscle. When he headbutts, it can actually be painful. His neck is every bit as big around as his head. He had "saber teeth" that hung from his lips, but he lost one shortly after we adopted him, and freakishly huge claws. He still has the other, though. We are getting him genetically tested because, well, he's ridiculous. Just as a cat. He's super sweet and we love him, but there has to be an explanation for him. Sorry this is so long. I just still have trouble believing he's a thing sometimes. Had him for two years. He warms my feet at night.)

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I know some of these photos have already been posted, but they're the best I have to show his eye size/shape/set, ear size/shape/set, muzzle breadth/chin/non-prominent whisker pads/shape, and coat might make up for it. Every cat there will likely have some sort of flaw, but if we can just outweigh those with his merits, we're still in the game.

Worst case scenario, I will just put a high priority on profile in my search for a female (I'm doing that either way actually), and, if they have a kitten with all of their best traits, I may keep him for a show boy/stud to a next female or females that will be unrelated.
 
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MistyDawn

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Also in case anyone wonders why he's always sleeping, or lying down in my photos, anyone who's had a young Maine Coon, at least a male, haven't had a female yet, can back me up when I say he's still the craziest kitten I've had. He's just a streak on the camera otherwise. :(
 

abyeb

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He is only 7 months. As we all know, their heads faces are changing into their adult shape at this age. This is probably a long shot, but is there any chance that he may lose it, or, less hopelessly, that his head getting larger and fluffier, as a male's head tends to do, may make it seem less dramatic, at least?

And for a 7 month old, he has a perfect coat with a nice ruff already starting. His coat, ears, and eyes, all including set, fit the breed standard to a "T". His nose is his one Achilles heel. He also has size going for him. He hit 15 pounds this weekend, and does not seem to be slowing down at all. He's overtaken my 4-year-old half MC as second heaviest cat in the house. Now he has to overtake my 19lb black, short-haired moggie 8-year-old (We don't know why he's that big. He isn't overweight. He's solid muscle. When he headbutts, it can actually be painful. His neck is every bit as big around as his head. He had "saber teeth" that hung from his lips, but he lost one shortly after we adopted him, and freakishly huge claws. He still has the other, though. We are getting him genetically tested because, well, he's ridiculous. Just as a cat. He's super sweet and we love him, but there has to be an explanation for him. Sorry this is so long. I just still have trouble believing he's a thing sometimes. Had him for two years. He warms my feet at night.)

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I know some of these photos have already been posted, but they're the best I have to show his eye size/shape/set, ear size/shape/set, muzzle breadth/chin/non-prominent whisker pads/shape, and coat might make up for it. Every cat there will likely have some sort of flaw, but if we can just outweigh those with his merits, we're still in the game.

Worst case scenario, I will just put a high priority on profile in my search for a female (I'm doing that either way actually), and, if they have a kitten with all of their best traits, I may keep him for a show boy/stud to a next female or females that will be unrelated.
It is possible that he might outgrow it. The TICA breed standard specifically says to allow for a slight nose bump in kittens: https://www.tica.org/pdf/publications/standards/mc.pdf
 

Benjamin Franklin (Benji)

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Also in case anyone wonders why he's always sleeping, or lying down in my photos, anyone who's had a young Maine Coon, at least a male, haven't had a female yet, can back me up when I say he's still the craziest kitten I've had. He's just a streak on the camera otherwise. :(
I’m sorry for going off-topic and intruding, but he looks so handsome!!! :purr:
 
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MistyDawn

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It is possible that he might outgrow it. The TICA breed standard specifically says to allow for a slight nose bump in kittens: https://www.tica.org/pdf/publications/standards/mc.pdf
But he's 7 months. That's getting close to out of kitten territory. Is the nose bump slight? It looks a worse than that to me. Maybe it's just because we are our own (and, by proxy, our own cats' worst critic.) Still, other aspects of his profile are impressive, I think, like his cheekbones, the squareness of his muzzle (besides that nose bump) and in general, he just has a nice profile with that one flaw. His father has a nose bump too, the breeder told me, so that's where it came from. If it's hereditary, it's probably not going anywhere. This is new info. :/

Another question I wanted to ask here. It says the whisker pads should not be too prominent, but there's only a kitten as an example and I can't tell what is whisker pad and what is muzzle. Are Alaska's whisker pads too prominent?

And here's what I'm looking at, checking for problems on him. https://www.tica.org/images/breeds/includes/seminars/mc.pdf

I kind of hate the nose bump rule. I think that for Europeans, it makes them look a little wilder, but it's not like we can argue against the rules.

I’m sorry for going off-topic and intruding, but he looks so handsome!!! :purr:
Don't be sorry. I'm worried about if my cat is handsome enough to compete in shows. A kindly poster coming through and reassuring me makes me feel better. <3
 

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Cats are still in the growing stage for their first year. That's why they are still treated and often spoken of as kittens for that initial growth year. I bet his best show year will be his 2nd year. But like others, I think getting a judges opinion is gonna help you out the most.

I agree he is growing up to be a spectacular beauty!

He reminds me a bit of my harlequin colored cat named Monique. I was sure she had some Maine Coon in her somewhere. Her fur was very similar and she grew into this huge cat with this amazingly fluffy coat of fur. She wasn't a show cat thou, just a cross breed with some Maine Coon in her.

Alaska makes me miss having a Maine Coon or one with a bit of it in them. They are simply gorgeous cats and so sweet and friendly! Sigh...
 

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His profile looks to me like the cat with “unusual nose bump” in the TICA document. Based on the construction of cat skulls, it seems to be in the shape of the bone, so I am not sure how much it can change as he grows. But I’m not a biologist so this is just speculation. We have some skulls at my workplace but of course you can see them online if you’re curious.

Too bad you couldn’t inspect the dad first if you’re hoping to show/breed the cat. I bought a cat from a breeder, and even though she is only meant to be a pet, the breeder was careful to bring the stud down from his bedroom for me to inspect (all I noticed was that he was 19lbs, hopefully my baby will not match him on this!). The mother of course was lurking around with her kittens, so she was also visible; the breeder offered to give me a closer look but I declined.

I can’t help wondering about his white coat. Is this considered a fault? Where I live (Maine) Maine Coons are naturally quite popular, but tabby coats are preferred from what I gather.

Good luck, he seems like a very sweet creature! And he must look great with your black cat.
 
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MistyDawn

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All colors are accepted in the breed standard except point coats. In fact, my mentors have told me that his white coat is likely to draw attention from judges, and is a positive rather than a negative, especially since he has blue eyes (which only white MCs can, in the breed standard) His color is nothing to be concerned about at all.

Upon further studying of the breed standard, I've noticed a pronounced bump is a deduction. Pronounced is somewhat in the eye of the beholder. Maybe his will smooth out enough toward adulthood that it is at least not all that pronounced.

I know that no cats at shows are perfect, so maybe his positives can make up for the deductions that come from his nose bump. In breeding, I plan to look very closely at the noses of the females I choose, so their noses can help balance out his, resulting in more straight-nosed kittens.
 
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lutece

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Hi mistydawn,

Take your boy to some shows! See how he does. Seek out other Maine Coon breeders at the shows and talk to them. Talk to other exhibitors (even those who aren't showing Maine Coons may have some experience with them). You'll get better feedback by going to a show and having experienced people handle the cat in person, rather than asking people here (most of whom are not breeders/exhibitors/judges) to evaluate a cat by looking at pictures. Plus, you and the cat both get valuable experience with showing and show grooming.

FYI, blue eyes are allowed for all "with white" colors (not just solid whites).
 
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MistyDawn

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I'm communicating now with his breeder and a Russian lady I from whom I'm purchasing my first female. Their take is that few to no cats in the ring will be 100% flawless. It's about other features making up for that flaw, something Leska is really shaping up for. His muzzle, coat (and he's young; he has a coat that you'd expect on a 2-year-old, so I can't wait for when he is that age), beautiful blue eye set, and ear set are excellent. Also, the new TICA regulations are a little more forgiving of a nose bump, and his is more slight than shown in the photo. It's interesting. I'm going to stick with my plan of using him as a breeder, but look out for nose bumps in future breeders. I want a solid black or black smoke male and a more typical dark tabby female, as well as a blue or blue tortie female.

We're looking for local shows and we will enter him. I also plan to enter the female I'm buying from a reputable Russian cattery.
 
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MistyDawn

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I will also likely choose one of his kittens who shows the most promise, one day, to add to my cattery and take home ribbons with, a kitten with the best of both his parents (I hear females get the short end of the stick in shows). Just have to never pair him with Mom. :)
 
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